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HP Questions that don't deserve their own thread V2

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Sesc, Oct 22, 2014.

  1. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Not a question but rather a random observation:

    https://www.pottermore.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/professor-mcgonagall

    I read this ages ago; not sure why it didn't stick in my mind.

    So the existence of multiple teachers per subject is now canon, opening the door to a larger Hogwarts population.

    The tricky part of this is of course the DADA position, since there only being one teacher of that subject is a plot point -- both in terms of the curse on the position, but also in terms of Dumbledore not being able to find a single person willing to teach the subject in OotP, resulting in Umbridge's appointment.

    I think we will just have to say that DADA is the only subject with just one teacher, perhaps because of the curse.
     
  2. DR

    DR Secret Squirrel –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    That, or it's simply an oversight. With JKR, that's more often the answer than not. After all, in Book 2, Riddle refers to Dumbledore as the Transfiguration teacher, which seems to imply that there's only him.
     
  3. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    My headcanon is that at one point in time, there was a need for extra teachers. I mean, even if you do the math with current supposed Hogwarts students, you would need multiple ones to get a reasonable schedule to actually work. But, I like the common fanon assumptions that there are tons of extra disused classrooms, and with two major wars in the last 100 years, the wizarding population is at a very low point, so there's not as many students as in times past. But, I think the true answer is the same as it's always been, and that JKR is not good with numbers, and anything mentions as such outside of the books is retconning/backtracking, which isn't necessarily bad when it comes to numbers.
     
  4. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Personally I've never been a fan of the idea of the wizarding population being in decline due to wars -- I feel like it fundamentally misunderstands the type of war that magical people engage in. This isn't a WW1/WW2 style "total war". There are no armies clashing. Death tolls are more like those of a very successful serial killer than a war.

    Also, I'm not sure that there's much evidence in canon of empty classrooms. For example, in GoF, Harry and Hermione ask McGonagall if they can use her classroom to use to practice the Summoning Charm. That wouldn't have been necessary if there are lots of empty classrooms.
     
  5. Zombie

    Zombie Black Philip Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Where does Newt fit into the Voldemort time-line? Curious since Dumbledore is teaching DADA.
     
  6. Microwave

    Microwave Professor

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    The sequence took place in the 1910s, a few decades before Voldemort started school, so Dumbledore might've started out his teaching career as a Defence teacher, and switched to Transfiguration.
     
  7. DR

    DR Secret Squirrel –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Doesn't she only do that because she was 'tired of encountering Harry and Hermione in abandoned classrooms'? Or something like that.
     
  8. Sorrows

    Sorrows Queen of the Flamingos Moderator

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    Grindelwalds War is hard to quantify though it does seem that it was large, widespread and prime wizards were sent to fight it. There is bound to have been some effect on the population size though one we can only speculate on. The second world war might have had an effect on the muggleborn population.

    (Alternatively now I think of it, the drop in wizardborn children combined with an influx of boomer muggleborn could have bred resentment during the late 50s-60s and a backlash could have contributed to Voldemorts rise to power)

    We do know of 40 odd named deaths in the second wizarding war which went on for about 2 years (with more implied.) The first wizarding war went on for 10+ years with Voldemort at the height of his powers and supporters, there was talk of giants and warewolves, plus the 40 years prior while he built his base, which suggests a low-ball estimate of several hundred deaths and disappearances. Yeah they did not wage conventional pitched battles that we know of but we can look at them as a cross between a cult and a terrorist cell. Both which have proven very effective at killing a lot of people.

    Considering the wizarding population is supposed to be around 3000 that's a massive blow to the population, particularly if young people are the ones fighting and dying. Realistically he could have easily halved the subsequent generation.

    Added to that is likely a large migration of muggleborn and half-blood families during the same period. (Would you stick around?)

    Finally unless Harry's year is an anomaly then the school houses 280 students at a time. The castle has eight floors above ground, eight-ish towers, dungeons and various outbuildings. Either it is a lot less impressive than we have been led to believe or it has a lot of unused space. It suggests the space was once needed. I guess it could be argued that it was also built as a refuge for wizard kind or something but I would say all signs point to a drop in population.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  9. Microwave

    Microwave Professor

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    I'd assume it was though, since Harry's year, and the few years before that were mostly born during the height of crisis. I don't think most people would have been willing to have children during a time when it was not an exaggeration to think that they could be murdered the next day.

    I think the years following Ginny's year would have significantly more people, considering that there would most likely have been a baby boom after the fall of Voldemort.
     
  10. Sorrows

    Sorrows Queen of the Flamingos Moderator

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    I would think it is possible that the 10 years of war that ended when Harry was one meant he entered a Hogwarts with a much lower population than was usual. Though if numbers significantly increased after Ginny's year it was never mentioned.

    Still though with a population of 3000 it could not have been a massive shift. There are currently about 11 births per 1000 in the UK which means roughly 33 kids born per year. This ties into Hogwarts numbers if you add 7 muggleborns per year. Considering unlike in most muggle wars women as well as men were equally targeted, any baby boom bight have been curtailed by there being a generation of young people on both sides not alive any more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  11. Mal'sSerenity

    Mal'sSerenity Second Year

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    Personally I think that the issue with population is due to Rowling not putting much thought into the numbers. Rowling herself said that she imagined Hogwarts having about 1,000 students. I know that the books take precedence over author statements but in this case I'm willing to take it. The descriptions of the Hogwarts halls between classes and the Great Hall during mealtimes seems awfully crowded for a population of about 280 students and unless just about every wizard in Britain works at the Ministry then Harry's description of hundreds of wizards in the Atrium of the Ministry of Magic doesn't make much sense.
     
  12. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

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    Does Canon say anything about how fast/far owls are able to travel?
     
  13. Sorrows

    Sorrows Queen of the Flamingos Moderator

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    No but they regularly traverse from Scotland to London which is close to 500 miles in what seems like a day (for example Ron gets a Howler pretty quickly after the car incident and people get papers delivered by owl.) So probably the answer is faster than physically possible for a normal owl.

    Since it is the equivalent of the post I imagine you can get send something by owl and have it arrive within a day or two anywhere in the UK barring bad weather or interruption.
     
  14. Otters

    Otters Groundskeeper ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I'm a few posts late, but as far as the empty classrooms thing goes, go take a look at any school. Not all classrooms are in use all the time.

    The only mention I can recall of a disused classroom is the ground floor room off the entrance hall which Professor Pony Firenze moves into.
     
  15. Zombie

    Zombie Black Philip Moderator DLP Supporter

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    I'm assuming that since the Castle seems super huge and the average class size seems relatively small, that people assume there are great swaths of empty classrooms. But its not really something that's ever been covered. If anything, I'd use the perspective given to us by the video games to determine relative size to everything.

    The movies would have you believe that its just right in regards to students: classrooms. And I tend to agree. WE view the school as larger because why not. You've got revolving staircases, random corridors that end in trap doors, and other such highjinks.

    Also given a sense of distance when they have to go to Trelawney's class and talk about how long of a trek it is. But I mean, in the middle of all that they didn't encounter any other classrooms?

    We're just not given much to go off of.
     
  16. Nevermind

    Nevermind Minister of Magic

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    A concept I have always liked (but seldom seen implemented well) was Hogwarts adjusting to its students‘ needs, which would include castle size. For example, we have the Room of Hidden Things, where it is not entirely clear where or how it actually exists – I would assume expansion charms are at work, but that still leaves the issue of where it actually, physically is. As such, I would imagine extra classrooms popping in and out of existence as the size of the student body varies would not be entirely impossible to fathom as far as canon magic is concerned. That would also lend a bit more importance to the moving staircases, which could function as access points when needed.
     
  17. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    Fun thing about an adjustable castle- it'll have just as many rooms as it or the headmaster believes is needed.

    Here's an interesting reference:
    This suggests that there are as many as 27 windows along one floor between a tower and the other side of that structure; otherwise, the headmaster would suggest they count from the other side.
     
  18. Thaumologist

    Thaumologist Fifth Year ~ Prestige ~

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    I've always assumed that, at least for classes, the residents of the castle stuck to the areas that were mostly constant, and easy to use. No walls pretending to be doors, or doors pretending to be walls... Or doors that are only there if you aren't looking, or it's a Wednesday.

    Technically, you can work in the left hand corridor of the third floor, but you can't go back the way you came, and current estimates put it at five miles long. As such, nobody really likes having classes there. Professor Firenze does enjoy taking an afternoon constitutional along the way, although he'd much rather it wasn't cobblestone.

    And nobody uses the North half of the fifth floor, because ever since Phlogistious Black did some 'experimental alchemy' in the 1700's, it's quite impossible to breath there, without the assistance of a bubble-head charm.
     
  19. vlad

    vlad Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    In CoS, when Harry is "caught" by Peeves during the second petrification, the scene suggests multiple classes are taking place along a single (nor particularly long) corridor.

    It may well be that the excess space serves some function beyond "disused classrooms", and Harry is simply not privy to it. But I think it is reasonable canon conjecture to assume that the students actively utilise a small portion of the castle, personally.
     
  20. Sorrows

    Sorrows Queen of the Flamingos Moderator

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    Then there is this little titbit that makes little sense if Hogwarts fits even 1000 students

    The there is the fact that the Slytherin common-room sits below the lakeline and Hogwarts is on a cliff. Which suggests that there might be several stories below Hogwarts. After all you have the Kitchens, the house elf quarters the Hufflepuff and Slytherin common rooms, the Potions classrooms and stores, Snapes office and quarters (probably), Nearly Headless Nicks party dungeon, the 'less nice' dungeons and the Chamber of Secrets.

     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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