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If Voldemort had succeeded in the Chamber of Secrets

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wynter, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. Wynter

    Wynter Order Member

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    This isn't so much the direct consequences of Voldemort successfully killing Ginny and returning to human form although there are a few interesting plot points to gather from there.

    I was envisioning the following events

    - Riddle revived
    - Muggle-Born Purge continues
    - Dumbledore Permanently Removed
    - Death Eater installed as Headmaster
    - Purge 'ceases'
    - Introduction of the Dark Arts in Hogwarts particularly to Death Eater Children/those who show 'potential'
    - Voldemort continues to accrue power before announcing return

    The weird question I have is, would Riddle have come back as he was in Goblet of Fire? Or would he have returned in the form of his teenage self? If so would he then have begun being warped by his past experiments?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  2. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Prestigious Tomato ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I think a school age Riddle would have stepped into the world, with a life force equivalent to what he stole from Ginny. He would have the same 'amount' of soul that Voldemort did when he died, but would also have a comparatively easier time of healing through regret.

    He wouldn't have access to his supporters, because he didn't have them at that age, nor would he have had the influence to have a Death Eater installed as Headmaster. If someone potentially sympathetic was installed, he would likely stop the attacks afterwards and attempt to recruit them, with the offer of letting the newcomer be known as the one to put an end to them.

    Given that he would have taken Ginny's life to become corporeal, I don't see him decaying or suffering the effects of his experiments from later in his timeline. The method he used is a completely different path to the one he used in GoF.

    You could, however, make an argument for either way. Sympathetic magic bringing Diary Riddle in line with Voldemort or some such.

    What part of NQLD do you live in dude?
     
  3. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The diary horcrux assumes human form, with the memories of a teenage Tom Riddle. He seeks out the master soul and does a much better job than Pettigrew at resurrecting the real Voldemort, which happens a year earlier than canon. Since Harry is dead, no need to use his blood, but horcrux Riddle can harvest blood from Harry's corpse anyway.

    War happens, Voldemort wins.
     
  4. esran

    esran Professor

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    I think Riddle would probably find the shade of Voldemort and resurrect him. He'd have to kidnap one of Voldemorts enemies, find and recruit one of Voldemorts death eaters, and get the graveyard, but I don't think he would have too much trouble with that.
     
  5. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Prestigious Tomato ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Why do we think Diary Riddle would seek out Voldemort? Would the urge be hardwired in, a character motivation, or what?

    I'd be inclined to suspect he would want to find out more on how he was apparently bested by a child before taking any steps. He would also have to find out that 'his' shade was out there somewhere in the first place, too. Given that Voldemort apparently didn't feel his Horcruxes being destroyed, it'd be unlikely that there he would just know.
     
  6. esran

    esran Professor

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    We aren't neccecarily sure that the blood can be harvested from Harry's corpse. WOuld it still qualify as forcibly taken? They might have to settle for a lower caliber of enemy, which could lead to resurrect Voldemort being weaker, and the wizarding world standing a chance against him.
     
  7. Wynter

    Wynter Order Member

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    Out of curiosity, to restore himself at full power would he have needed the shade of Voldemort's soul post-Harry, or just a Horcrux?

    If he solely needed a Horcrux then the diary is proof of Riddle knowing of Horcruxes already and he'd always had designs on creating seven. If I was Riddle then I would already have two places to check. The Riddle Manor and The Cave from when he was an orphan, he wouldn't have been starting off without any knowledge of his larger plans, his larger plans had been in his head since before he made his first, the diary.

    Seeing as Voldemort's soul was effectively split in 7 it's plausible the shade wasn't necessary for his resurrection if others had access to the Horcruxes which no-one did. And for the ones who may have (Bellatrix/Barty) they were in Azkaban. CoS Riddle would have this access however.
     
  8. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The fact that horcruxes are not equivalent to the master soul is shown by the fact that the horcruxes only anchor the master soul. Horcruxes don't anchor each other to life, nor does the master soul act as an anchor for the horcruxes.

    Further, Voldemort's ability to control the Nagini horcrux demonstrates that the master soul has the ability to command the others. Dumbledore states in HBP that Voldemort's control of Nagini is greater than you would expect, even from a parselmouth, and that this was evidence of Nagini being a horcrux, telling us that Dumbledore was of the belief that the master soul can control the horcruxes.

    Finally, JKR has referred to Voldemort as the master soul in interview.

    Now, the fact that the horcruxes are subservient to the master soul does not necessarily mean they will take initiative to seek the master soul's best interest, but I think it is highly suggestive. On top of that, consider what a soul is: a person's essence, their identity. It seems to me likely that the horcrux fragments don't consider the master soul as separate from themselves. They're all one entity, just distributed in location. You can see that the diary horcrux at least thinks of things this way: "Voldemort is my past, present and future".

    Wynter The resurrection ritual does not require a horcrux.

    If killing someone doesn't count as forcibly taking then I don't know what will lol.

    That said, I don't think it has anything to do with power. Voldemort wanted Harry's blood for the specific purpose of circumventing Lily's blood protection. If Harry is dead, there's no particular reasonto want to use his blood rather than some random wizard who counts as an enemy.
     
  9. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Headmaster

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    Though it's worth noting that Harry's blood would be poisoned with Basilisk venom at that point, which probably isn't a good thing.
     
  10. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Headcanon: Newly-human horcrux Riddle journeys to Albania and, through some complex binding ritual, would have become host to his older self much in the same way as Quirrell.

    Where the story might go from there is a little to hard to pin down. You can do anything with this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  11. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The problem with that is that it would seem to amount to reabsorption of a horcrux, which we know can only be achieved through genuine remorse.
     
  12. esran

    esran Professor

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    That sounds like a waste of a horcrux considering Voldemort has plenty of followers to possess.
     
  13. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    It amounts to nothing of the sort, old bean. Two distinct Voldemort souls/minds in one body. It. Would. Be. Amazeballs.
     
  14. magic13

    magic13 First Year

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    Is the diary having the potential to become corporeal only because the master soul is in a banished state? Otherwise why bother with an inner circle, Voldemort could've just animated six horcruxes with life force sacrifices and had mini versions of himself to further the cause.
     
  15. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    That would be the tits, actually.
     
  16. esran

    esran Professor

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    He probably didn't want to risk his horcruxes dying. If the master soul dies it just becomes a shade. If a horcrux dies its dead.
     
  17. SeekingSerenity

    SeekingSerenity Third Year

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    Then you would need to even the scales.Canon Harry would have gotten squashed.
     
  18. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    While that would indeed be the tits, there does seem to be a noticable trend of depreciating power/awareness with each successive horcrux. Although several peeps here have disagreed with me on this (qualms abouts quantifying something as ephemeral as a soul), I like to argue that each split essentially cuts the "master soul" in half. So each successive horcrux is half the size/being/character/power/whatever of the previous.

    TLDR: Eventually you might try and make a horcrux fragment corporeal and it would just end up being a little disgusting baby thing like in Harry's head.
     
  19. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    I can see one reason not to do that. Voldemort's not the kind of guy who would settle for using some random schmuck's blood. It might be practical, but Voldemort's not a strictly practical guy. Just look at his canonical resurrection, where he went to a lot of trouble to make the event as grandiose and theatrical as possible.

    I suspect that absent Harry Dumbledore would probably be Voldemort's preferred choice, but forcibly taking his blood would be ... problematic. He would probably have to settle for someone high-up in the Ministry. The Minister of Magic would certainly make for a grand gesture. Crouch Sr. might also be a good choice, since he was a leading figure in the first war and would be easy to get to if Crouch Jr. manages his escape and Imperius-ing his father more-or-less as per canon in GoF. Karkarof might also fit, since he's a fairly prominent figure and a Death Eater who turned traitor after Voldemort's fall.
     
  20. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Professor

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    Voldemort wasn't able to control Harry, even after resurrecting with his blood and actually possessing him.

    It might simply be that Voldemort was able to control Nagini because the horcrux was a snake and it only amplified his existing control over snakes. Snakes are subservient to parselmouths. That might have been what Dumbledore meant. Besides, snakes do not have human level intellect and that might have played a part.

    If Tom Riddle succeeded in the chamber, he'd have a human body, and might not have been subservient.
     
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