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Is Harry/Tonks relationship morally wrong?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Don, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Tactical Tomato DLP Supporter

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    Guys I went and read some Harry/Tonks smut but I don't feel it was enough to form a solid opinion. Can anyone point me in the direction of more material so I can come to a...conclusion, as it were?
     
  2. Donimo

    Donimo Seventh Year

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    Rule of law is about protecting people. Teengers have sex, this is an absolute since the dawn of man. Age of consent is about protecting teenagers, who are kids trying to learn to be adults, from those who would prey on them. Since they lack experience to take care of themselves others must do so.

    When a 20 something is hanging around highschool kids attempting to use their trappings of adulthood to seduce or influence them into sex, we rightly see them as a predator. This isn't shaming of sexuality, or any of that other bullshit you said. It's protecting someone who lacks the experience to recognize the guy doing this is a creep.

    Age of consent is an absolute, because 15 is deemed too young. However as a community we enforce much stricter rules judged more personally.
     
  3. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    And rule of law says that sticking your dick in a 16 year old is okay if you're not their teacher, sooooooo...

    As for shaming of sexuality, that's definitely not bullshit. If a young man has sex with an attractive older woman, a not insignificant portion of the comments you'll see will be congratulatory or envious. If a young woman sleeps with an older man, he's a predator and she's been manipulated or is a slut. If you could unwrap your lips from the cock of your high horse, you'd be able to recognize that there are cogent arguments to be made about the nature of sexuality in western culture.

    Seyllian said it just two posts ago, the argument would be completely different if it were an older man and a younger woman. Male sexuality is predatory, female sexuality is a moral failing. An older woman having sex with a young man isn't so bad, but an older man having sex with a younger woman is manipulation. How many young women are shamed or are ashamed of their sexuality? Trying to pretend that all of this is just bullshit is willful ignorance.

    Of course, this is disregarding context. It's not like Nymphadora in this hypothetical is lounging around the Hog's Head looking to get some hot young broom action because she's got a thing for the young'ins. It would be an organic relationship that grows from shared interests, hardships, and circumstances. It wasn't so long ago that we wouldn't have raised an eyebrow at an age gap like that, save for that it was the woman who was older instead of the man.

    15 is too young, unless you live in Germany, or Austria, or China, or Croatia, or Denmark, or Estonia, or France, or Greece, or Hungary, or Iceland, or Japan, or FYROM, or Poland, or Portugal, or Romania, and that's not counting the dozens and dozens across the "developing world" whom I've left out. Age of consent is anything but absolute, it's a sliding scale based on how a culture feels on the particular day the legislation was written. 15 is fine under many Romeo and Juliet laws when it comes to relationships with 19 year olds in college, so don't try and pretend like this is some absolute moral boundary like murder.

    We, as a society, do need to draw lines. They're imperfect, but necessary. There will forever be cases where it doesn't make sense to somebody's subjective interpretation of the appropriateness of a relationship, but that's the reality we live in. Refusing to acknowledge that there can be a conversation about these issues, though, is how problematic situations like two young people being mutually charged for raping each other happens. It's how a young person taking a naked selfie gets charged with production and distribution of child pornography.

    As for positions of authority and age of consent, let us not forget the tens of thousands of fics that have Harry in a sexual relationship with somebody his parent's age, or an actual teacher. The virtue signalling about fictional relationships is kind of absurd.
     
  4. Sey

    Sey Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    It was five posts ago, thank you very much. I can't even read this now! Such idiocy!
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  5. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Yeah, it's hard to analyze the morality of the relationship without any information about the actual meat of the relationship. Is Harry mature enough to handle a relationship with an older woman? Is Tonks being careful to not push him into things he's not ready for? Depends on the writer.
     
  6. Methos

    Methos Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    Harry/Tonks debate and no one bring the issue of kissing cousins ? :)
    If we take the fanon that Charlus and Dorea Potter are Harry grandparents.
    That makes Tonks 2nd cousin once removed? is that too close to home? in the grey area? or all clear.

    Tonks is Metamorphmagus I wonder if that effect people thoughts about her, she can change her appearance to look closer to Harry age ?
     
  7. Donimo

    Donimo Seventh Year

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    Harry's grandmother is not a Black, them being relatives isn't a factor. Also how she looks doesn't matter.

    Being attracted to a teenager isn't morally wrong in any way, teenagers having sex isn't morally wrong in any way. The problem is that adults shouldn't take advantage of adolescents. They lack experience to avoid situations that can cause them harm, physically or emotionally.

    Age of consent is just a number, it is not itself that important. A 24 year old who is having a sexual relationship with a 16 year old isn't really any different than a 24 year old having sex with a 15 year old. In both cases the older person is taking advantage of someone who is too young to know better.

    Once you get older age doesn't matter. Tonks and Lupin is fine, they're adults. If I see a 25 year old that is banging someone twice their age, I'm going to assume they have a thing for mature people. If I see an 18 year old having sex with someone twice their age I'm going to assume they're being taken advantage of in some way. Neither of these absolutely true, but somewhere in the middle is likely where the truth lies. Sixteen though is absolutely too young to be making an informed decision, especially when we're talking about Harry who has no experience and would find himself completely at the mercy of the older partner with absolutely no frame of reference of what to expect, and without a proper support system in place. Considering that now Harry is actually the exact sort of kid that a predatory adult would target.
     
  8. Oz

    Oz For Zombie. Moderator DLP Supporter

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    That's an odd way to spell 'money'. And why you watching people bumping uglies?
     
  9. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    There is little point in arguing about morals because it amounts to "I believe X" - "I believe Y".

    That is also, of course, the reason the OP's question is pointless, because it depends on who's answering. (Ignoring asking this question about a fictional couple that is not even Canon, of all things.)

    I happen to believe a state has no business in protecting people from themselves (including children, that is the parent's job), and neither is it the enforcer of morals, so literally the only grounds on which to object to the student screwing his teacher and vice versa is a subsequent unfair bias in grading; and if someone desperately wants his sister, his son and his granny, then by all means. No one is forcing me to watch.

    The difference Donimo is that I'm not trying to make the world in my image. I would feel very happy in above reality. Would you? And if the answer is no, consider this when extending your moral judgements to people other than just yourself.
     
  10. Donimo

    Donimo Seventh Year

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    Sesc I wouldn't, no. Extending moral judgments on other people is was society does. We deem killing others as wrong, so we set a law. Some things are too discrete for law so they're assigned as common morality by society. After all, laws are created by what people believe, not the other way around.
     
  11. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

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    I just kind of find this conversation funny given that somebody may have written a very lengthy fanfic on this forum exploring Harry/Tonks (in OOTP era, nonetheless) that first showed the appeal and chemistry and then spent a couple hundred thousand words deconstructing it.

    You know, food for thought.
     
  12. Drachna

    Drachna Squib

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    I suppose that it depends on your morals and the current age of the two characters. Legally wrong is a completely different issue. If you enjoy the pairing but you take issue with Harry being underage I'm sure that you will find plenty of fanfiction that caters to your needs.
     
  13. Moukaboy

    Moukaboy Banned

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    Use the age rule : half your age plus seven so yeah it's definitely wrong
     
  14. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    Standards like that are colloquial rules of thumb and not real guidelines. The fact that that's the primary argument that Sirius makes when jokingly chastising Remus in fics shows how much weight we should afford it. Hell, its origin is finding the ideal age for a bride, not the minimum one. It falls apart pretty quickly as well as the ages increase.
     
  15. Moukaboy

    Moukaboy Banned

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    Yea it was a joke lol , just finished rereading A Black Comedy
     
  16. ChosenOne

    ChosenOne Squib

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    A relationship when the age gap is like 7 years is not possible when one of the participant in question is still a 16 year old teenager.

    There is a difference in how a 16 year old thinks and how a 24 year old thinks. When all 16 year old males think of is sex, 24 year old female singles are likely to look for a relationship which might one day turn to love.
    Harry, while more mature than his peers for his age, is still a hormonal 16 year old and he wouldn't have the emotional depth or maturity to handle a relationship with an older woman.

    No, I am pretty sure no 24 year old woman would be willing to enter a relationship with a 16 year old male virgin in RL
     
  17. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Tactical Tomato DLP Supporter

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    That's actually a reasonable post. Colour me shocked.


    Also, my previous investigations are now out of date. I'm gonna need new material guys. Just know that I'm doing this for DLP. You'll all be in my thoughts as I get to the bottom of this.
     
  18. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    It's definitely a fair point. I remember back in grad school at 24 years old I had short relationship with one of the 19 year old freshmen. That was a smaller age gap than Harry/Tonks, but the difference in maturity was still big enough that it eventually killed things.

    That said, age is just one component in a character's overall personality/maturity. Aside from the "Chest Monster" in HBP Harry's never really seemed like the stereotypical hormone-driven teen boy who can't go five seconds without thinking about sex.
     
  19. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Incidentally, does anyone know of any fics other than "It Could Only Happen to Harry" by HoosYourDaddy wherein Tonks uses her powers to turn into Harry's peers?
     
  20. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Tactical Tomato DLP Supporter

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    'Anyone You Want', by 'Strider', but I haven't read it in years. I think there was more 'plot' and a more serious tone than HYD's fic.
     
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