I don't think Harry should have forgiven him. Understanding that humans make mistakes is one thing, but allowing someone who's made the same utterly devastating, fail mistake twice return to your circle of confidants is another. Forgiving him would have implied a greater lack of understanding than refusing to let him return would have. Leaving Ron behind at that point would have shown that he realized someone like Ron doesn't stop doing bullshit like that, he continues to care so much about himself that he judges others only in terms of how they measure up to the ridiculous and unspoken standards he has set for them.

He abandoned his friends to die alone in the woods. For mostly wuss reasons. And then he comes back and not only expects his friends to forgive him, but (Along with J.K. Rowling, apparently) Hermione to still have feelings for someone who has shown himself to be utter scum? Twice?

Ron never tries harder than he absolutely has to to get by, and when those around him excel, he resents them for their efforts. He expects those around him to love and admire him without giving them any reason to, and insults them viciously when they don't. Who needs enemies with friends like Ron?

 

You don't have many friends, do you?

 

It looks like we've got a guy who got his canon from Ron bashing fics.

Yes he did leave during DH however it was under the influence of the horcrux. If he really had been an asshole he wouldn't have come back.

 

He was influenced by the horcrux and tried to return immediately. Where are you getting the impression he felt entitled to Hermione's affection or Harry's friendship?

I don't really understand how you can't grasp that Ron made very human mistakes but you've named your account after someone who was far less redeemable.

 

Oh boo hoo. he immediately regretted being a huge asshole. Good for him. It's all okay now. Why should he be excused if Hermione managed to stay? He's a bad friend. He had Voldemort influencing his mind, yes, but he also left because he wanted food and shelter. He complained about how long it was taking to find the phylacteries of the most powerful wizard around, when they'd been hunting for just a few months. Like defeating him in less than a year of concerted effort is slow. And either way, I don't really see the Locket as an excuse. Yes, it exacerbates what's there, but it still has to be there to begin with, and Ron still had to choose to say the words he said and do the things he did. He's still the one ultimately responsible for his actions, and it's less of an excuse when Hermione persevered.

 

So what your saying is that if a friend has any negitive feelings at all they're an asshole and that they can never disagree with you. Also if they do manage to over themselves to not only come back and still try to help you your answer is fuck'em you want another friend.

You must live a very lonely life.

 

I never said anything of the sort, so no. You can excuse for some dickish behavior, not abandoning your best friend and the girl you claim to love when they need you most after insulting them in the most hurtful ways you know how. Beyond that, he chose to act that way even when he knew how the Locket was affecting him, and he was like that even while he wasn't wearing it. They all suffered with the Locket, but the other two never even approached Ron's level of douchery.

 

Hang on, you're the guy who posted TWO threads about how Severus is actually a great guy. So this should be promising.

Like I said time and time again, Ron was put in a very difficult situation then, one that neither Harry or Hermione can really appreciate.

1. While Harry has no family and Hermione sent her parents to Australia, Ron has a brother in the Ministry, a father in the Ministry whose already being monitored, a sister in Hogwarts already leading a rebellion and being punished for it, and a lot of other relatives he loves very much and very much in harms way. In fact, he was hearing about Ginny shortly before he left.

2. They are wandering the woods, with no plan whatsoever other than not being caught. They can't find the other Horcruxes, destroy the one they do have, or even get in touch with other members of the Order. That isn't exactly very good for anyone's self esteem.

3. Teenage Hormones, while a very stupid thing, is a significant part of a teenager's actions. In this case, making him jealous about Harry and Hermione.

4. The Locket is whispering poison in his ear. Harry and Hermione have their own issues, but they aren't as significant as Ron.

5. When he left, and had the chance to just go to his family and safety, he immediately regretted leaving and would have faced the music for what he did, because he knew he was being a git. And he would have if it weren't for those freaking Snatchers showing up.

6. When the Put-Outer Ex Machina gave him the opportunity to go back, he took it. And he then proceeded to save Harry's life, kill his literal demons, and accept everything Hermione literally threw at him because, again, he knew he was a massive git and deserved it.

I would ask you, Severus, if you can honestly say you would do any better if you were put in that exact situation, but I would be genuinely surprised if you even bothered to actually read what I wrote and considered how you could be wrong. People like you aren't interested in learning, getting a new perspective, or admitting they can ever be wrong about anything. You just want to insist your views, ones that you probably got more from FanFics than the actual Books, are the only correct ones. And if you keep up that stubbornness, you will be Banned from here sooner or later.

 

Hmm, this is just another hater that supported what vlad has said I guess.

I second this.

Utterly devastating? Yeah, could you show why getting mad at a friend for a few seconds qualifies as utterly devastating?

They were in the middle of the war when they need all the help they could find so this is just as retarded as I expected and rest of the sentence makes no sense at all.

Yeah this confirms that you’re delusional. They weren’t about to die anytime soon and there were no signs of danger anywhere near them. For the most wuss reasons? Lol I guess getting worried that your family will die because you’re helping the most wanted wizard in the world qualifies as the most wuss reasons. Goodness me.

Yeah, tell me when did Ron resent Hermione for her successes? When did he insult Hermione? When did he ask people to admire him with no reasons? Oh wait, he didn’t so this whole assertion is based on a delusion. Hmm, he’s a horrible friend that showed that he was willing to sacrifice himself for his friends? Dear me.

Because Harry goaded him into leaving and made lots of mistakes? By the way, do you realise how stupid it would be to fight with your allies when you have got a powerful enemy on the trail?

So having Voldemort influencing your mind means so little to you? Lol. He left because Harry was being a bad leader who has no idea what to do (a fact proven right) like he said AND he literally told Ron to leave. Get your facts straight.

Ron had the most to lose likely his whole family’s lives are at stake unlike Hermione you know. Gee, I think that’s a pretty big disincentive to continue.

That was exactly what you were implying earlier no matter how much you deny it so you are now contradicting yourself.

Abandon means leaving temporarily not going away for a seconds and then coming back. All he said was they weren’t making any progress in the quest and that in your delusion is the most hurtful ways?

He couldn’t control himself you know. Why SHOULDN’T Ron complain about his leader being clueless? Tell me, why?

Yeah, this section proves your hypocrisy right here or else you have no idea that the book said or both. Harry obsessing over the Deathly Hallows and abandoned his friends for months is worse than anything Ron did but then you are too immersed in your hate and delusion to see that. Oh by the way it was Ron who was leading the team during that time when Harry deserted his role as the leader.

Also like someone else already said, Snape is far worse given that he voluntarily joined the Death Eaters.

Rheager - I must say I am VERY impressed with how you are able to politely respond to what haters are saying on this thread using clear and obvious canon facts despite the fact they will most likely not even try reading as shown numerous times before.

 

Ah, thanks. You're making me blush.

But in all seriousness, at this point I'm basically just repeating and repeating stuff I already said before. It's getting to the point where I keep debating whether or not it's worth it to just make a proper essay and just quote from that. While a lot of people would probably like it, how many on this thread would ignore it and just go on about how Ron is literally the worst.

 

Not trying to jump on the Ron bashing bandwagon, but I feel like some of you guys are overcompensating in regards to Ron. His shit stinks just like the rest of us. His isn't some paragon of virtue in his lowest moments, try to justify them all you like, he was an utter shit for leaving. I always liked Ron, he was the comedic relief, but I still don't agree with him leaving in DH. And I've always been confused to the purpose of his abandonment of the cause as far as a narrative sense. If someone can give a rational explanation, it would be appreciated. I personally didn't think it added anything, especially since he came back into the fold pretty quickly, which I put down to JKR realising she'd fucked up because I'd honestly thought we'd moved beyond that stage of Ron's characterisation after GoF.

As insane as fanfiction cliches can get at times, a few have somewhat of a foundation within the books. So as much as you guys will reduce the arguments against Ron to absurd caricatures of what they were intended, there are some salient points against Ron for his conduct. Which as far as I'm concerned I blame JKR for, in my opinion she's the asshole for making me question Ron's character in the first place...

 

Er, did you read any of the other times I talked about Ron leaving?

1. As DH made painfully clear, Ron had to constantly worry about his family, while Harry and Hermione don't. Harry doesn't care about his only living relatives, and they're God knows where by then, and Hermione changed her own parents' memories so they would end up in Australia and out of harm's way.

Ron, on the other hand, had a very large family he loved, were still in Britain, and all in harm's way. His brother and father were working right in the Ministry of Magic, the latter already being spied by the Ministry. His sister was not only in Hogwarts, but was leading a student rebellion and was already being punished for it (a fact he learned about shortly before leaving). And their lives were especially at risk because he was with the most wanted person in Magical Britain.

2. Harry was being a terrible leader. He had absolutely no plan where to find the other Horcruxes, how to destroy the one Horcrux they did have, or even get in touch with other Order of the Phoenix people. And in case you forgot, he was the one who said Ron should just go in the first place!

3. Two words: Teenage Hormones. Yeah, it's stupid and childish, but that is exactly what Teenage Hormones are, and what they do to every teenager at some point or another. In this case, it was making Ron jealous of Harry and Hermione. And stuff like that, for the record, has caused real life fights and even ended real life friendships.

4. The Locket is whispering poison in his ears the whole time, making everything worse. And Harry and Hermione wearing it made them more irritable too, making a fight all the more inevitable.

5. When he did leave, his very first thought was that he made a mistake and he should go back. He didn't try to rationalize how he did the right thing or just go to his family, he wanted to be with them again, apologize for being a dick, and accept the consequences of his actions. The only reason he didn't was because the Snatchers showed up just long enough for Harry and Hermione to leave and go somewhere else.

6. When the Put-Outer Ex Machina gave him the chance to go back, he took it almost immediately and proceeded to save Harry's life, destroy the Horcrux/his literal demons, and accept all the verbal and physical abuse Hermione flung his way because he knew he deserved it.

Was Ron the perfect human being during all this? Hell no. But he was being a relatable, flawed human being doing a terrible thing for understandable reasons. It's not his fault he spends most of his time with Harry "I'm Jesus" Potter and Hermione "Rowling's SI" Granger. In fact, I think that's why a lot of people hate Ron, either because he's a regular teenager surrounded by ubermensch, or because some people find his flaws so similar to their own they write him out to be a jerk to prove to everyone and themselves they're absolutely nothing like him.

 

I think it's about time the admins locked this discussion. Seeing as this discussion hasn't gone anywhere for quite some time.

 

Dude, you are overcompensating the whole leaving affair was totally Ron's fault.

1. Ron volunteered on the Horcrux hunt so he was aware of the danger his family potentially was in at, he made the decision to follow Harry on his journey and should have stuck with it when he had no evidence that his family was in danger right know.

I am not saying that it isn't understandable that he felt worry for his family but he volunteered for the journey so he should have dealt with it.

2. Harry told them everything he knows and didn't want to take them with him in the first place so Ron was a complete asshole to Harry since he and Hermione didn't contribute anything either besides he knows that Harry is not a genius uber wizards does he expect that just because he is the "Chosen One" to pull the best decision right out of his ass.

It's Rons fault for having unrealistic expectations for Harry and not being prepared how miserable the journey could be.

3. Agree with this.

4. Yeah the horcrux was wearing down their self control and making them angrier than usual but Ron still was the one who acted out on his feelings not Hermione and Harry even if he was under a bit more pressure he should have more contol instead of leaving. Besides it feels kind of cheap since instead of being idiots they could have put it in the moulskin pouch.

5. Dumbledore even knew that Ron would leave in the first place just based on Ron's character not knowing any potential circumstances.

6. The Horcrux was presented to Ron more as a token for reconciliation than anything since Hermione and Harry would have no problem destroying it either.

I am not saying that it isn't understandble what he did but he should have dealt with it since it was his decision to join

He was a good friend, saved Harry and reedemed himself but he was the one completely at fault in this situation everyone makes mistakes but you try to put a bit to much blame on Harry here which simply was not the case.

 

Man, this is what I'm talking about, I've already stated I like Ron. Instead of addressing my thoughts on the matter, you launch into a tirade recycling the same tired points again. Yes, I've read your thoughts. However, I don't particularly find much merit within them.

In response

1. Didn't Harry try leaving without Ron and Hermione out of his guilt for bringing them into the madness of being the number one undesirables? In my opinion, by choosing to leave anyway, Ron is actively taking responsibility for his actions and the full consequences for them. That includes the ramifications for his family as well. And I think you're underplaying how much Harry cares for the Weasleys too. I reckon he's pretty concerned about them also. And I think the argument could be made that due to Harry's upbringing he's better able to appreciate the Weasleys. Anyway, his family would still be in the shit regardless of whether or not Ron was with Harry, because surprise surprise, the Weasleys are a wilful bunch who threw their lot in long before Harry entered the picture. Hello, blood traitors anyone?

2. Harry being a terrible leader is just an utterly shit leg to stand on. Pretty sure he was upfront about everything Dumbledore told him, not keeping little pieces of key information to himself. Ron being surprised by Harry's leadership is even more laughable, they've spent the past six years becoming familiar with how each other operates.

Harry telling him to go doesn't give Ron immunity for doing so. That's absurd. Just think about that for a minute. Pretty sure Hermione was also begging him to take the locket off halfway through the fight. He didn't seem to do that, so maybe Ron is accountable for his actions. And I think that's my problem with your thoughts on the matter. You make out Ron to be some sorry little victim of Harry, which I think is rather ridiculous.

3 & 4. Again, stop taking accountability away from Ron. They were all undergoing both teenage hormones and the locket yet the others didn't lash out like Ron did and instigate.

See, my main contention was that I don't see the narrative reason behind Ron leaving. Why couldn't it just be a fight and they grew distant afterwards until he saved Harry's ass, what changes narratively? Why did Ron have to cross that literal line of no return? I just feel like his leaving changed something fundamental about his character that we hadn't seen before. We'd already experienced all the petty shit. I mean think about it. When times were at their toughest, and the stakes were highest Ron bailed. That just doesn't sit well with me.

And personally I feel like JKR never really addressed this issue. I think she realised just how much of fuck up it was and glossed over it, patched it up hoping nobody would notice. I mean how else do you explain the deluminator BS.

No I don't think that Ron's an asshole. But at the same time I'm able to accept that characters do things I don't always agree with while still maintaining affection towards them. I feel like some of you guys championing for Ron are going too far in the opposite direction by justifying Ron's most unjustifiable action in my opinion. There are always reasons to be made for any action. I just don't think it was right, and it almost sounds like you thought Ron did the right thing given the circumstances.

Get where I'm coming from now?

Edit: Goddamn ninja'd, props Kira

 

Here's a more woke question: can wizards vanish things inside their bodies? If so, does Ron (or anyone else) even need an asshole?

Worth thinking about. ������

 

Eventually they'll evolve so they don't have assholes, and that's how you'll be able to tell if someone's a wizard or muggle. But just think of the poor wizarding sodomites.

 

14 year old girl mpreg HPDMSS writers on suicide watch.

 

For all those people calling what is basically storming out of tent in anger and almost immediately regretting it "'uge betrayal", I have one question:

When was the last time you spent months with the same two people, in one tent, on the run from the goverment, listening to personalized whisperings of mad dictator?

Was it before or after you were fucking 17?

 

I had to do that in kindergarten. Didn't you?