Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jenko, Feb 9, 2017.
Well, they do call it Trolling for a reason.
I think Harry should've killed him when he returned in Deathly Hallows. I get teenage insecurity and immaturity, but abandoning your two best friends to fight and probably die, that's just unacceptable.
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You do not abandon your friends. Period. After all the shit Harry's done for him, saved his sister, his father, etc...
He abandoned his friends to die alone in the woods. For mostly wuss reasons. And then he comes back and not only expects his friends to forgive him, but (Along with J.K. Rowling, apparently) Hermione to still have feelings for someone who has shown himself to be utter scum? Twice?
Ron never tries harder than he absolutely has to to get by, and when those around him excel, he resents them for their efforts. He expects those around him to love and admire him without giving them any reason to, and insults them viciously when they don't. Who needs enemies with friends like Ron?
Are you a troll?
Oh my... Someone is itching for a flame. There is no "outlandishly jealous Ron" stagnating the fandom. There is however, a Ron whose jealous and insecure tendencies are proven in canon time and again, and who is simply one of the most worthless characters JKR has created.
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I am unable to tolerate Ron/Hermione pairing. Ron had done nothing but abuse, belittle and/or hurt Hermione in some way all seven years because of her intelligence, hardworking and caring nature while hypocritically USING that same intelligence, hardworking and caring nature to help him with his homework or his own wants/needs. He did nothing but USE and ABUSE her and even in the last book he was still just as immature and uncaring of her feelings and well-being as he was in the first. He always put himself first in direct contrast to the very definition of love - where you put the happiness and well-being of the one you love before your own. Granted, Hermione was far from perfect but she NEVER intentionally tried to hurt anybody unlike Ron's own vicious verbal assaults against her where he knew and intended for it to hurt her. I reiterate, Ron was abusive and/or dismissive of Hermione and her feelings in EVERY book. So, why in the hell would this intelligent young woman suddenly be so stupid as to even date much less marry such an arse?
I can only guess that it was JKR trying to insert a little realism in that Hermione's lonely childhood because of her intelligent and assertive nature combined with 7 years of Ron's put-downs and abuse had destroyed her own self-esteem so badly that she figured that Ron was the best she could hope for. She had been reduced to absolutely zero self-respect and thus gave herself over fully to her abuser. Either that or it was the old good-girl goes for bad-boy routine in which case the stupid btch gets everything she deserves. Oh yes, he abuses me all the time so he MUST be a truly great male specimen! Let's make babies! That is one aspect of some women that I'll never be able to understand.
Most good friends wouldn't be willing to go on such a mission in the first place, never mind stick with it.
You clearly have unrealistic expectations of your friends. I hate to break it to you, but I doubt any of them are willing to die for you. If you consider that a requirement of friendship, then you're not going to have many friends.
Ron is a far better friend that the vast majority of friends you'll make IRL. That he only put his own interests before those of his friend on two occasions in the course of 7 years full of putting Harry first is a miracle.
Note: this user didn't bump the thread - the post that did was deleted - Drome
You're right in that Ron's behaviour in book 4 would piss you off were you Harry. But put yourself in Harry's shoes. What do you think you would do if a friend did something petty and stupid, but you also had memories of them getting voluntarily smashed by a giant chesspiece because it was the only way for you to succeed? Or of them putting themselves between you and a murderer when they were almost too injured to stand?
Nobody will deny that Ron acts foolishly and infuriatingly on occasion. But he also exhibits extremely admirable traits at other times, and it is obvious that this (reasonably in my eyes) is what stops Harry dropping him over a teenage strop.
Well this thread is back.
I want to point something out. To the guys in this thread, being honest, would you be friends with Ron. It took me a while to realize this but come on. Ron is exactly the kind of guy I would have been friends with as a teenager. We would have fun together.
Let's compare him to Harry's other friend, Hermione. Here is someone who I wouldn't have want to be friends with. Naggy, annoying, pressuring me to be responsible and do work. Worst of all snitching on me when I got legendary level sports equipment (firebolt).
Then you have Ron, a guy you could talk to, relax and crack jokes with, and use said sports equipment with. It would actually be fun.
Being honest, most teenage guys in Harry's position would be friends with Ron. So why does he get so much hate from so many people (including myself just a few short months ago)? I blame the bashing fics that distort our view of him.
I just wish the fucking thing would stay dead. I would never be friends with Rob, but I don't like Gingers.
Edit: I said Rob instead of Ron, fact remains, fuck Rob and Ron. I hate them both. Fucking Gingers.
I think that the problem is the lack of development. Rowling has nice and cool ideas for characters, but their development is lacking.
Just look at the main characters. At the end of the series they are pretty much the same people as they were at the beginning.
Harry - the main hero who in the final books makes exactly the same mistake of jumping to conclusion that Snape is an evil guy like he did in the first book, as if to highlight how little he changed. Harry whose perception of who is good and who is bad is proved wrong not once and not twice, never draws any reasonable conclusions from his experiences and never becomes more cautious with passing his judgment, which as a result repeatedly turns out to be wrong.
Ron is no better. The fact that he has problems, self-esteem issues and so on is made clear as early as in the first book and that it sometimes drives him to behave like a dick. In the last books nothing really changed. I suppose that some people are sick and tired of it. Had Ron matured enough to stop making dickish things, he would be maybe more liked, but since he doesn’t I suppose that some people think something like this while reading the final books ‘Here we go again’
Hermione – you will not see any big change here either.
The most changed characters between the first and the last book are Neville and Ginny, but because they are not given the spotlight like the main characters, their development occurs off-page and we see next to nothing of it.
These books have some cute ideas and good things, but insightful characterization and good character development are not one of them.
I mean, he does watch Snape kill Dumbledore. Full on blast him off the top of the tallest tower in the castle with an already lethal curse. Shortly before Snape kicks the shit out of him whilst fleeing the scene of the crime with a bunch of other terrorists. And of course, this is the same evening that Harry found out that Snape was directly responsible for Voldemort targeting him as a baby, and therefore his parents death. And then the next time any of them encounter Snape, Moody gets killed (in the same incident) and Snape (accidentally) permanently wounds one of the twins. I think, under the circumstances, Harry can be forgiven for leaping to that particular conclusion. In fact, a substantial amount of behind the scenes plotting on Dumbledore's part had gone on to make sure that people would leap to that conclusion.
I will grant that his suspicions in the earlier parts of HBP seem a little tired, but equally you have to admit that after six years of Snape being an utter asshole, it's somewhat understandable.
And ultimately, it's not exactly wrong to say Snape was one of Wizard-Hitlers magical cock-gobblers, he's just an angry spiteful traitor on top of that. What exactly do people think would've happened to Lily in the hypothetical event that Lily hadn't been pregnant at the right time to fit the prophecy, or that Voldemort was sufficiently generous and/or impatient mood that he simply stunned her instead between killing James and Harry? Snape is a great character because he's a terrible person.
Sure, Snape was not a guiltless person, but Harry had so many times his assessment proven wrong that it would be development if he, in a more peaceful moment, started to consider that maybe this time he is missing something again or maybe that there is something more going on about which he does not know yet.
Besides, a writer who is good at character development would put their character in the same situation to show how different their characters and how much they changed. What's the point of putting a character in the same situation only to show that the character reacts in the same way and makes the same mistake? To show they reached a developmental impasse is the answer that comes to my mind.
Well, there's a certain amount of truth in that, I suppose. It's just that Snape is a terrible example to use. You could have, for instance, looked at the way Harry spends six books acting like adults are useless and he's the only one who can sort it out (fairs fair, he's often right), and then ultimately...decides to trust that Dumbledore had the right plan, despite all his concerns, and to follow it up to and including letting himself get killed. Oh, wait.
Well, how about his tendency to rush in on the basis of limited information? Like when he has a vision of Sirius being tortured? Exactly the same happens in DH when he sees Voldemort stealing the Wand and he...ignores it in favour of their current plan. Oh.
Ok, let's take an easy one. Draco. Six books of antagonism culminating in Harry cutting him to shreds, and then in DH...he's come to recognise that Draco is a somewhat sympathetic if pathetic figure, and actively works to save his life. Shit.
Well, of those three things you cite, two are effectively the same moment, and the third, well, he'd saved the much more despised (by him) Peter Pettigrew before, so you can't really say it's a change in the way he does things. He's always tried to save people more often than not, even if he doesn't like them.
You have got to be kidding me.
*theatrical whisper* I don't think he's gonna stick around.
From a story perspective it is a perfect opportunity to show how much Harry changed, as it reminds one of what happened in the first volume. In a way story made a circle.
I don’t propose that Harry should have immediately deem Snape innocent, but merely that it should have crossed his mind, after experiencing his judgment being wrong so many times in the past, that there may be something more going on this time as well.
Also, I am not saying that Harry and others didn’t change at all, only that they didn’t change much.
Just once - just one time. Can the thread where noobspergz can't resist beating the dead horse be a thread about how much Harry enjoys motor-boating Susan Bones' tits?
Because personally, I feel it would be as relevant, as canon compliant, as every single one of these retard Snape/Ron/Dumbledore threads, but would be a helluva lot more fun.
Personally, I think he did it the first time to spite Justin Finch-Fletchley, but quickly came to appreciate them for their own sake.
I like to think that Harry took to motorboating Susan Bones' tits with the same fervour and natural talent that he did to flying, and that he eventually managed to turn it into a spectator sport.
In both cases, he pulled a really neat game-winning trick with his mouth.
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