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Is Ron an asshole?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jenko, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. vlad

    vlad Seventh Year Prestige

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    If anyone gets blame for the troll, blame Hermione - going back through book one she was utterly insufferable up until Halloween.

    Oh wait, no, don't do that - yes, she's insufferable, and yes it was with good reason that nobody liked her or Ron finally snapped and said something (to Harry). But that's still got nothing to do with a troll being let loose in Hogwarts as a diversion so that Quirrelmort could attempt to steal a mythological and absurdly powerful magical artifact.

    Let's not blame a bunch of first years for an action that belongs squarely on the shoulders of Voldemort.

    What's interesting is if you go back to where Harry and Ron go back and rescue Hermione, neither boy actually convinces the other. Harry is the first to remember where she is, but all he pretty much says to Ron is 'Hermione's still in the bathroom', and which point Ron looks at him for a second and is all 'fuuuuuuk, okay then' and they both go off to rescue Hermione.

    In retrospect, the movies were character assassination. Throughout Philosopher Stone, Harry and Ron are total bros, and I think a lot of the indy!Harry tropes came out of the fact that we had this huge setup of badassery that never really materialized.

    On the train, they don't speak about it - Malfoy and his idiots show up, and within 2 minutes Harry and Ron are back to back, ready to get into fight at one another's backs. They both make a near instantaneous choice to rescue Hermione - and their byplay when she's being insufferable is hilarious to, it's not just Ron who snarks at her when she's being a bitch.

    Then we have Ron being all, 'FUCK YEAH HE'S IN, I'M HIS SECOND.' not because derp derp he wants to get Harry in danger, but because he knows that it's not like Malfoy knows any spells and the goal is just to embarrass Harry over his ignorance over the magical world. Who's got the emotional range of a teaspoon? Empathy!Ron is toetz a bra here, even if Malfoy then turns it into a chance to entrap them with Filch.

    Goes on from there - Harry tries to impale(no shit!) Malfoy with a broom and Ron is cheering him on. When Harry gets his new broom, Ron is a jealous fu- wait, no he isn't, he thinks it's win and looks forward to watching Malfoy be a bitch over it.

    It's Ron who realizes the Mirror of Erised is bad newz bears and tries to convince Harry to leave it alone... even after he too has seen everything he wanted.

    Oh, and of course, the point where they all think Ron is going to die but Ron nonetheless orders himself to be 'taken' in the puzzle chess game, and is all
    'so long chaps - now remember Harry, three steps to the left once I've bitten it, eh?'

    Better Question: Is Rowling an asshole? For allowing such epic brahnezz to stagnate into 'Hey Hermione, plz tell us naems of our classmates we dunno them' and for allowing the movies to turn Ron into the lightweight sidekick they made him.
     
  2. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    NakedFury, I was going to reply but Rhaeger I and Distaly beat me to it. I will just add any additional thoughts I have.
    First of all I’m glad we agree that Hermione can be even more tactless than Ron which is why I feel Harry’s comment in DH about Ron being tactless is really unfair.
    Flying Car – OK I did remember the trip to Hogwarts was Ron’s idea and it was stupid no doubt about it. This single isolated incident where he took the lead in a stupid idea doesn’t mean he is a reckless friend.
    Other 4 issues – Rhaeger I and Distaly already said everything here. Nothing to add there.

    I don’t think it’s fair to blame Ron when Harry agreed with his reckless ideas because Harry is really stubborn himself and nobody can really make him do something against his will.

    If you think Ron encourages Harry to take risks, you should remember how many times Ron advised Harry AGAINST doing something reckless or dangerous. Here are some times when Ron advised Harry against taking risks without Hermione being present:
    -To not go look for the mirror of Erised during Christmas holiday in PS
    -To not pick up Riddle’s diary after they first found it in Myrtle’s bathroom (which Harry ignored)
    -To ignore Malfoy goading him to go after Sirius himself during their Potions lesson in chapter 8, PoA after Malfoy returned from his Buckbeak ‘injury’
    -To not be so obsessed with Draco Malfoy to the extent of missing a Quidditch match as captain after the match against Hufflepuff in Slytherin when they were both in the hospital wing.

    This is not counting all the times where Ron teamed up with Hermione to advise Harry to be cautious like just before the Quidditch match against Hufflepuff in PS or not going after Sirius Black when they found out he allegedly betrayed Harry’s parents, etc.

    I don’t think it’s fair to blame Ron when Harry agreed with his reckless ideas because Harry is really stubborn himself and nobody can really make him do something against his will.

    Harry is the most reckless and adventurous of the three, not Ron. I don't think we want to count the number of times when HARRY dragged Ron and/ Hermione into unnecessary danger; the list will be long.
     
  3. NakedFury

    NakedFury Squib

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    Would need to reread but:
    1- He wasn't asked about it hence his fault. I would also say the Twins fault for also going with the car for that part.
    1b- I was sure it was Ron's idea.
    2- Friend or no was not in question. He still accepted as if it was him that was challenged and harry had no say in the matter.
    3- Would need to reread but I had thought the idea was Rons.
    4- Exactly. Rons fault since the start. :D
    5- He is a good guy for caring for his sister but that wasnt the issue. He still decided to drag Harry into it.

    I thought we were mentioning times Ron got Harry into trouble and the thread was about Ron.

    We all know Harry had suicidal tendencies so no surprise there.

    Will need to recheck that dragon part and the flying car.
     
  4. Inert

    Inert Auror

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    Now I just want to read a story where Hermione never becomes a part of the team and Harry and Ron have to solve all the shit themselves, broing out in the process.

    Edit: They'd have to become pretty fucking cool too since they'd have to learn a ton in the absence of Hermione being there to guide them at times. Fuck, what a missed opportunity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  5. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Unspeakable

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    You know, I just had an epiphany: all those fics that claim Harry and Ron would have been that much smarter if they just listened to Hermione telling them to study had it backwards all along: without Hermione right there to help them with everything, the two would have been forced to do all the studying and work on their own, and as a result become pretty powerful wizards.
     
  6. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    You do need to reread these parts as you clearly got incidents like the dragon and the troll wrong. It was Harry's idea to roam the castle and save Hermione from the troll and Harry’s idea to contact Charlie to see if he can take Nobert with him.

    Harry had no say in the matters? Sorry but this just makes me laugh. I mean just before the midnight duel Harry was constantly thinking about Malfoy’s sneering face which goaded him into going wasn’t he? With the car incident Harry actually LIKED the idea and before he went into the chamber to save Ginny with Ron he was thinking he wanted to do anything at all to help. I already said how stubborn and rebellious Harry was so I really have no idea how Ron can make Harry do ANYTHING if Harry did not want to.

    What about those times when Ron advised Harry not to do anything dangerous or when Ron helped to save Harry’s lives? What do they mean to you?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  7. Seyllian

    Seyllian Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    Here's the real question: How is this still going on?

    If Ron is/isn't an asshole is up to one's opinion of what they think dictates a person being an asshole. If you want to be reasonable,READ THE BOOKS AND FORGET WHAT YOU REMEMBER FROM FF AND THE MOVIES. Seriously, just do it. Many people from the HP fandom have not read the source material in such a long time. The last memory of the real HP universe for many of us are the movies as they were released much later than the finishing of the series or the plethora of FFs that are available to read. This causes a rift of what one perceives of the characters and their actions with the reality.

    So, one might wonder how they can determine if Ron is an asshole.

    Read the books and see if you think what he did make him an asshole
     
  8. puppet

    puppet Squib

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    I´m sorry but every friend at some point gets jealous of something. The problem with Ron is, as someone pointed out previously, that is a normal guy surrounded by abnormal people. First Harry. He has so many contradictions I even don´t know where to begin. He has a heroe complex, doesn´t behave like he where smart or anything, is actually non friends with everybody but Ron and Hermione. I mean yes, he talks to people and a lot of them regards him hight, but appart from Neville, the Twins and obviously Ginny, I think the person his age he talks to the most is Malfoy.

    Hermione is even more anti social than Harry, a complete nerd, so let´s talk about Ron.
    -Hey Ron, I think Snape wants to steal a rock to resurrect Voldy, help me pass all sorts of test and face the darkest of lord. Ok Harry.
    -Hey Ron, come with me to a nest of big creatures you fear as hell in some dark place. I will Harry.
    And so on till the last book. Hey Ron, abandon Hogwarts and your family so I don´t have to look for something I don´t know where it is all alone. Ok Harry.

    So, here are the moments of stupidity of Ron. Give the cold shoulder to Harry in book 4, not because he entered the tournament but because he did it without him. He was wrong, something he acknowledged quite soon, but at tha time, was more probable that some dead death eater not so dead was inpersonating a legend of an auror, and so putting Harry´s name in the goblet, or that Harry somehow bypassed the line not tagging Ron alone.
    And all that stuff in book 7 with a Horrocrux designed to pervert his thinking wouldn´t have to be against him.

    So, yes, Ron has done worst things to Harry than Harry to Ron because Harry, who isn´t by any means a teenager and sometimes a human being , hasn´t actually performed any ill to Ron. But the amount of sacrifice Harry has asked out of Ron, and everything he has gotten by him without actually anything in return, makes impossible to say anything about a guy of 11-17 years.
     
  9. Jamesdobby

    Jamesdobby Squib

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    Ron is human. I've always found him to be incredibly brave and the number of times he has been loyal has outweighed the few times he's been a jealous git.

    He abandoned Harry in fourth year due to immature, teenage jealousy. He then abandoned Harry and Hermione during the horcrux hunt (granted this was a big betrayal) however the influence of the horcrux should be taken into account and it was always going to affect him worse than the other two. Both times he got his head right and was welcomed back into the fold but I think the number of fanfictions that play these incidents up into Ron bashing extravaganzas has probably coloured the average fanfiction reader's perception of him. Despite these two instances of being a bad friend, you have to remember the number of times he has been a loyal friend that follows Harry almost blindly.
    Off the top of my head:
    1. Chasing Harry to save the Philosopher's stone at age eleven.
    2. Despite an incredible fear of spiders he followed Harry into the forest to confront the King of spiders and the colony.
    3. He told Sirius Black he'd have to go through him to get to Harry.
    4. He followed Harry to the DOM knowing they would be confronting Death Eaters and thinking Voldemort himself was there torturing Sirius.
    5. He broke into Gringotts with Harry.
    6. He stood on the frontline of the war with Harry willing to sneak up on Voldemort to kill the snake.

    Granted being the crazy Gryffindor he is and a Weasley he probably would have been willing to do any of these things but that still speaks to the fact that he's not an asshole. He's brave and a good guy that madr some mistakes. While most people can honestly say they've made mistakes not many could say they would do half the brave acts he has done alongside Harry.
     
  10. vlad

    vlad Seventh Year Prestige

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    Re-reading book 2 now. Guess who tells Harry, "Don't touch! It could be dangerous!" re: the diary?

    Ron puts broz before hoz (cruxes) every time.*

    Also, Ron warns Harry that even though Ron himself stands by Harry regardless, hearing voices is NOT something Harry should make public. Loyal but socially aware, 2 things fanon oft denies.

    The other thing I missed is in books 1 and 2 yes, Hermione is the author's voice for conveying info... but Ron and Harry contribute knowledge as well. It's only later on they are utterly clueless about everything and need Hermione to tell them how snitches work or what their classmates' names are.


    *mostly
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  11. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box Prestige

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    While your point about Ron willingly following Harry into dangerous and personally terrifying situations is fair, this bit is wrong:

     
  12. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem High Inquisitor

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    It's really a shame that not more people take part in the reread. I suppose they prefer to read generic Indy!Harry fic number #182573 instead, and enjoy bashing issues that didn't even exist in canon.
     
  13. puppet

    puppet Squib

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    I think there is a diference between being jealous of Harry for being a Triwizard champion, and being jealous/mad at Harry for beating the age line of Dumbledore and inserting his name all alone, without him, which I think was his problem

    ---------- Post automerged at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

    True, they offered themselves willingly. Still got a huge lot of them with barely nothing in return. Perhaps because they didn´t demand anything, but still.
     
  14. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Unspeakable

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    Personally, I'm curious how a lot of those people would react if they did read the Books and realize things like Daphne !IceQueen! Greengrass is almost never actually mentioned or Ron is actually a pretty good friend most of the time. Would they seriously rethink what they thought they knew about Harry Potter and gain a new perspective on FanFics, or enter Denial Mode or even somehow use the Text to somehow prove their views are right?
     
  15. Seyllian

    Seyllian Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    Denial Mode.
     
  16. Warlocke

    Warlocke Prisoner

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    The more depressing fact is that many people from the HP fandom, including a large portion of fan fic writers, have never read the books.

    Those people base their stories on what was in the movies and what they've read in other fan fic.

    Which informs the writing of other fan fic writers, which informs the writing of other fan fic writers, which...
     
  17. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    Here are some examples of Harry behaving badly: being a horrible friend in OotP to Ron who did nothing to deserve the shouting, taking his friendship with Ron for granted a lot of times (like as in Ron has to worry about him but he does not have care much about Ron’s personal life in return) and worst of all, ABANDONING the Horcruxes quest for 3 months by obsessing over the Deathly Hallows after they returned from the Lovegoods in DH. Gosh, this is horrible isn’t it?

    If you are saying Harry had a bad life, don’t forgot Ron’s life and how even his own mother likes Harry better than him.

    No, even a true friend can behave badly at times because everyone is human. You need to judge a friendship by its entirety so you should stop being delusional being friendship entails especially when Harry’s own horrid behaviour at times is hypocritically overlooked.

    Ron never stopped? This is just one of the stupidest comments I have heard from haters. He only really showed jealousy once in GoF when everyone thought Harry was getting nothing but glory and more wealth.

    This is a great description of what lots of fanfic writers are like.
     
  18. TheTycat

    TheTycat First Year

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    Another spot where Harry arguably causes problems with Ron is GoF. Ironically, a lot of the fuel for bashing Ron comes from the GoF, but when I reread that part, I can see why Ron doesn't immediately believe Harry. Harry does a pretty terrible job of explaining.

    To be honest, I'd probably doubt a friend if their excuse is "Someone else framed me, but don't ask me who or why or how." Harry could have told Ron what Moody had said, but he didn't. Harry could have mentioned that McGonagall and Dumbledore believed him, but he didn't.

    Another important part is that Harry did consider entering. A lot of fanfiction shows Harry immediately dismissing the tournament as a bad idea, but canon shows a different Harry. When Ron calls Harry out on this, Harry doesn't explain himself, he just insults Ron.

    Admittedly, Ron is letting himself get upset about feeling left out by Harry. Maybe Ron should've taken Harry's word for it, but Harry's word fails pretty badly at communicating. They both share fault for this whole rift in their friendship, but too often fanfiction ignores Harry's actions and blows Ron's out of proportion.
     
  19. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box Prestige

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    Honestly, when I reread the books over the last few months, I was a little shocked at how forced Ron's jealousy seemed - there's enough subtle mention of it in the earlier books that it's not a completely out of nowhere element, but it goes from 0 - 60 really quickly, which might be why so many people have such a strong reaction to it, perhaps? They know there's something off about it, and attribute it to the character rather than the writing.
     
  20. NuitTombee

    NuitTombee Supreme Mugwump

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    Try to stick to facts rather than making stuff up.

    TheTycat

    Given the things they got up to in the previous years, someone entering him in a contest that could kill him is hardly farfetched.