Length & Fanfic - When and Where to "Split"

Ched · Nov 25, 2019

Let's discuss 'length' in the context of fanfiction.

Feel free to bring up comparisons to original fiction but that's a different beast so I don't think it's directly relevant.

Two main questions:

Should "long" fics be split into parts? If so... Why? When? Where?

Is there an ideal chapter length for fanfic? If so, does it depend on update rate? Why or why not?

Okay, so where is this coming from?

I still want to write that fanfic I've been talking about since the idea hit me back in 2012/2013. To me it always seemed obvious to keep a single fic as a single fic and not split it into a trilogy, even though my planned fic would be 500k-ish and has three clear arcs.

I want to write fanfiction for practice since I really need practice just writing, and it's a lot easier to get feedback on fanfic than original fic. A single story will have more reviews, which means more people will continue showing up to read it, which means more feedback (even if 98% of it is not useful) and more exposure. Therefore it seems more beneficial to the author to have their story in one piece.

I know some readers prefer to have stories kept in one piece and some prefer to have them split into chunks that are closer to the length of actual books. I prefer the first but honestly - as a reader - this isn't a big deal to me either way.

Regarding chapter length. I hate "short" chapters regardless. I don't care if there's an update every day, I want chapters to give me at least ten minutes of reading enjoyment. I dunno what that is for me in terms of word count, but I prefer chapters that are at least 5000 words. Otherwise I get frustrated.

I don't personally mind long chapters of 10k+ but that's because I typically have time to finish them when I start them. But for a lot of people this can be an issue as they want to start/finish in a certain time due to work or other obligations, and having to stop in the middle of a chapter is annoying. I personally prefer "long" chapters if we are only getting a few updates a year, but that's me... but in that case, the author could split them in half and provide twice the updates, which would work for a wider reader-base.

Edit: The idea of splitting a chapter brings us to the idea of scenes (number and length) as well. If each chapter is a single scene it might not be possible to split them without changing the author's vision for the story. But if you have multiple scenes I don't see why your 15k chapter couldn't be cut in (approximately) half.

So, DLP - is there an overall 'best' or 'worst' way to split stories and chapters within them?

Eilyfe · Nov 25, 2019

Chapter length: 5k-10k, veering more towards 10k hits the sweet spot for me.

Story length: that's a difficult one, and highly depends on the story itself.

I can't imagine a sprawling epic being less than 200-300k, and since many stories attempt to be epics in some sense, they usually tend to reach that length (also because oftentimes people don't edit, but hush). However if an author isn't covering all years at Hogwarts and beyond, and rather focuses on a specific part/plot/idea, then a smaller-sized story is perfectly servicable.

Splitting a big chunk into separate stories has its pros and cons. When I split T7A I enjoyed coming up with a new summary for the sequel, viewing it as a new story, having a fresh start so to speak. I looked back at my old writing, specifically the beginning of Blood Wings, which was its biggest flaw, gave an arrogant sniff, and said, nu-uh, that's not me, that's old-me, I write much better now, come look and see.

Personally I liked that feeling a lot. Psychologically I could also say that I had finished the story now, even if the overall trilogy wasn't done just yet.

What I didn't account for, really, was that I actually lost quite a few readers. Not everyone, when finishing a story, trawls an author's profile to see if there's a sequel. And given that I had a lull of a year or two between Blood Wings and Lines, a few of my old core readers didn't really notice until much later that there was a sequel. Some just moved on in general, I suppose.

Had I kept it as one story, a chapter every two weeks instead of writing, editing , and then slowly releasing the whole thing two years later, I probably would have gained a lot more in terms of readership. Although the final project would've been markedly different. Hard to tell if better or worse, but I'm quite susceptible to reader feedback, so maybe I would have changed things around on a chapter-by-chapter basis instead of writing my own thing. And while there was some valid criticism of Lines (feedback that would've been good to include while writing), it is also essentially 100% me at the core without much influence from others, a thought which I do enjoy. Reviews are quite a double-edged sword to me. I love 'em, but sometimes too much, and then they get kind of in the way of what little artistic vision I have.

I started to ramble somewhere in that last paragraph, lol. My apologies. (Interesting thread for self-reflection. I like that.)

Ched · Nov 25, 2019

@Eilyfe - That's the type of response I was hoping to get, so no worries about rambling!

It's good to hear thoughts from a successful fanfiction author who had stories long enough to split and how that affected things (both readership and your own sense of accomplishment, which should not be minimized).

Sesc · Nov 25, 2019

Ched said: ↑

So, DLP - is there an overall 'best' or 'worst' way to split stories and chapters within them?
Click to expand...

I don't know of any metric to determine an objective optimum, so the answer is no.

Shinysavage · Nov 25, 2019

Well, keeping it as one volume didn't seem to harm Prince of the Dark Kingdom - but then, splitting into seven (and a one-shot side story) didn't seem to hurt the Sacrifices Arc either.

I don't think there's a definite answer. When I started in fanfic, I decided to dive right into a full seven year AU, over multiple volumes, which made sense to me both as a reader and as a writer; it was a mirror, of sorts, to canon, so lumping it all in one seemed off. Also, I knew the tone and content was going to get darker, which might not apply in your story.

For Hallowed, I always intended it as one single story, although I also intended to do a longer time skip than I ended up doing. If I went back to it, I think I'd split it after the current set piece was wrapped up - the latter half of the story would have a very different style to the school-set shenanigans so far.

That's my personal preference, of course. A quick glance at my ff.net stats - for which I logged in for the first time in about two years - shows that the single entry has had much more success, nearly four times as many hits as my other stuff, although equally, a lot of that came from inclusion in the DLP C2.

I have been thinking about word count recently though, as I look (vaguely) into original fiction; a debut fantasy novel, on average, would be between 70 and 100k, so all my fanfic would be on the longer end of the scale. For reference, your probably 500k magnum opus would be just short of the longest fantasy novel ever published, the final volume of the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series.

Which site would you publish on? Eilyfe raises a good point about readers not knowing about sequels, but on AO3 you can create a series link rather than just leave a note to say check out your profile for other stories.

Sesc · Nov 25, 2019

Shinysavage said: ↑

I have been thinking about word count recently though, as I look (vaguely) into original fiction; a debut fantasy novel, on average, would be between 70 and 100k, so all my fanfic would be on the longer end of the scale. For reference, your probably 500k magnum opus would be just short of the longest fantasy novel ever published, the final volume of the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series.
Click to expand...

And that one was a wildly meandering, sprawling thing if I recall, so it could have been shorter. I'll repeat what I said for Dodging Prison: There is such a thing as too much plot. A story, even if it has no filler, can be too long: You should not have included all the ideas you had, even if they fit very well. Pacing is a thing. A story doesn't have to be streamlined to perfection, especially in FF, but if you have ideas for two, then write two, not one.

Halt · Nov 25, 2019

Should "long" fics be split into parts? If so... Why? When? Where?

I approach writing from the perspective of a total sellout. Which is to say, for me, "good" is defined as what makes something easier to read (synonymous with retaining readership), and bad is something which makes it harder to read (losing readership).

So in general, I advise people not split a story into parts with one caveat---if the length of the story has reached a point where it's daunting to new, prospective readers to dive in due to the perceived time commitment necessary to finish the story. An example of this would be Worm (at 1.6-1.7 million words) put me off for ages knowing it was that long.

In general, I think most people shouldn't run into this problem though because
1) Haha, good luck writing that much mate. Most of us writers fall into this.
2) Even if you did write that much, it's questionable whether you couldn't have shortened it significantly. This is where Worm falls under.

Is there an ideal chapter length for fanfic? If so, does it depend on update rate? Why or why not?

YA / Teen novels (PJO, HP, Ranger's Apprentice) clock in at 3-5k words per chapter (by my own admittedly rough approximation by counting pages). Fanfiction tends towards the longer side. I think that in general anywhere between 2k to 10k is acceptable. 2k is the bare minimum, but not ideal. I believe the sweet spot lies somewhere in the 5k to 8k range.

10k and you have people who don't want to read because they can't slog through that many words (keeping in mind a significant portion of readers are going to be kids, and 2k is too short for most seasoned readers. 5-8k is an acceptable compromise to both groups and I think minimizes the risks of losing readers based on length alone (based on zero studies, just anecdotal experience).

Blorcyn · Nov 25, 2019

So I’ve never really written anything of note, so I’m approaching this from the perspective of a reader.

Regarding chapter length, it varies on whether a serial is updating or complete. A very long story or a complete story with 5k+ chapters is fine for me. But few of them are, and I generally prefer my chapters in smaller chunks. 2-4K. When they’re longer, I often fall off a story even if it’s good and updating frequently.

I think that’s in part due to the fact I read things on lunch break or at home in between doing other stuff, the loo is a big factor here. Much longer than that and I won’t finish it, and I’ll lose my place. Sorry to lower the tone.

Story length, I think the longer the better in terms of drawing readers. However, when was the last time you read a 1million word fanfiction and thought it was good?

I think there are a sizeable number of readers who won’t read less than 150k. Breaking a story at half at around 400-500k would probably work in order to read the next one, not burn out and to delineate the stories.

Agent · Nov 25, 2019

For splitting up stories, I'm never really sure what to think. If I see a story split up into a series then I get annoyed cause it seems to break the "Flow" to me. The problem is that fanfic writers always just do a new fic for a new HP year. First story is Year 1, second Year 2 and so on and so forth. The problem is that a change in Harry's school year isn't enough to justify a new fic in fanfiction. Other than Books 1 and 2, there are (very) subtle tonal changes in each of the books in the HP series. Plus, there needs to be an overarching plot in each fic whereas sometimes writers just write half a dozen different plots before moving onto a new fic.

If I see a single story with a ~700K word count then my first thought is that the author doesn't know how to actually end the story and is just dragging things out. But the actual series itself combined is ~1M words spread over 7 books. Of course, this doesn't apply to stories that over over 500K words for just Year One since for me there just doesn't appear to be any Method to the Rationality.

Silirt · Nov 25, 2019

Eilyfe said: ↑

I started to ramble somewhere in that last paragraph, lol. My apologies. (Interesting thread for self-reflection. I like that.)
Click to expand...

I see you are a man of culture.

Ched said: ↑

Should "long" fics be split into parts? If so... Why? When? Where?

Click to expand...

The discussion presumes that people will have their own subjective ideas about how long or short something should be, and I imagine that there is probably at least one reader out there for whom it just doesn't feel right unless each chapter is 1865 words exactly. There is literally no point to writing in a manner to try and please everyone, or even the majority of people, because the majority is silent. We have no data on what the majority prefers, and if we did, you'd still have people who loved your chapter length and hated your fic length. Even in this thread no one's the same about the idea, though I can see people leaning toward longer chapters and longer stories, definitely on the high end of what I've read, though what I've enjoyed has been on the higher end with the exception of short stories.
Generally, long stories should not be split into parts, but not because plot or character developments fail to make it feel justified. I'm currently writing a series where it splits by year, to mirror the canon, and I find my viewership vastly drops off after the first one. I would not consider the first one the best, though it had consistent engagement and was growing in popularity once I had about ten to fifteen chapters published, and I'm sure there would have been some drop off if I had just started the next school year and people realized they were in for a longer story, but the most successful long stories I've seen have been in one piece, not in series. I can only think of a few examples where a series is even widely known, and less where it's generally regarded as good. Splitting the story into parts divides the amount of external links to your story, and makes it seem like more of a chore to read, even if it's fewer words in total.
I've revealed what I personally write, and I've probably invited arguments that my stories are just bad and that's why readership drops off after the first one, but that's another subjective yardstick, it's the same as telling me my chapters are too long or too short (3K words each, though it goes slightly over sometimes). In my experience both reading and writing fanfiction, as well as communicating with other authors, the people who pick out subjective flaws with your story and review or message you about them are the least likely to represent the views of the majority of people in your audience. This is not to say that you should ignore all criticism, people can be saying things that are helpful, like there were times when I could have sworn I'd explained something in an earlier chapter, but then realized I'd forgotten because of reviews. This is to say, however, that if you're getting criticism, your stories are worth reading and the majority of the audience doesn't have a problem with what the critics hate.

Ched · Nov 25, 2019

Shinysavage said: ↑

I don't think there's a definite answer. When I started in fanfic, I decided to dive right into a full seven year AU, over multiple volumes, which made sense to me both as a reader and as a writer; it was a mirror, of sorts, to canon, so lumping it all in one seemed off. Also, I knew the tone and content was going to get darker, which might not apply in your story.
... ... ...
Which site would you publish on? Eilyfe raises a good point about readers not knowing about sequels, but on AO3 you can create a series link rather than just leave a note to say check out your profile for other stories.
Click to expand...

I'd publish on ffnet and AO3 probably - my goal is primarily just to get words out, because writing is good practice for me in general, but if I'm doing that I might as well spread it as widely as possible. More info on my story specifically later in this post.

Blorcyn said: ↑

I think there are a sizeable number of readers who won’t read less than 150k. Breaking a story at half at around 400-500k would probably work in order to read the next one, not burn out and to delineate the stories.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I don't disagree, but I think there are a chunk of readers who also look specifically for those super long stories that are 150k+. Many of those readers, however, might be willing to check out sequels if such a story was split.

Agent Zero said: ↑

For splitting up stories, I'm never really sure what to think. If I see a story split up into a series then I get annoyed cause it seems to break the "Flow" to me. The problem is that fanfic writers always just do a new fic for a new HP year. First story is Year 1, second Year 2 and so on and so forth. The problem is that a change in Harry's school year isn't enough to justify a new fic in fanfiction. Other than Books 1 and 2, there are (very) subtle tonal changes in each of the books in the HP series. Plus, there needs to be an overarching plot in each fic whereas sometimes writers just write half a dozen different plots before moving onto a new fic.
Click to expand...

So, since it has been hinted at being asked, my story would more or less be set up as follows.

Covers end of first year (the "obstacle course" is in Chapter 1) through post-7th year. So essentially Years 2-7 of Hogwarts plus a bit before and after. If I estimate those at between 50k & 80k per year (which gives wiggle room for the before & after bits), I come out to 300k-560k total.

I deliberately bit off more than I could chew with this. The original fiction novel I'm working on (along with various short stories) is far, far simpler and shorter (on purpose).

This isn't an advice thread for me, but just to provide an overview...

Overall Plot Arcs covering the entire story

There is an overall plot arc that relates to dealing with Voldemort

There is an overall plot arc that relates to Harry and who he is / potential prophecy / etc.

Plot Arcs for "Part I" (primarily covering Years 2 & 3)

Character Arc - Harry moves from wanting to be "Just Harry" to embracing the title of Boy Who Lived

Plot Arc - Lockart mentors Harry, he is not a fraud

Plot Arc - Diary & Basilisk

Plot Arc - Vampires

Side character arc - Ron

Side character arc - Hermione

Side plot arc - Ron & Hermione (no romance yet)

Plot Arcs for "Part II" (primarily covering Years 4 & 5)

Character Arc - Harry embraces being the Boy-Who-Lived and slowly learns to leverage his money, fame, and natural skills

Plot Arc - Triwizard Tournament

Plot Arc - Harry becomes Dumbledore's 'apprentice' and this triggers various plot developments

Plot Arc - ???

Side character arc - Ron - includes his own 'mentor' and 'apprenticeship'

Side character arc - Hermione - includes her own 'mentor' and 'apprenticeship'

Side Romance plots - all three of the trio give relationships a go. None of them quite manage to succeed.

Plot Arcs for "Part III" (primarily covering Years 6 & 7)

Character Arc - Harry transitions from being the Boy-Who-Lived to being the Master of Death.

Plot Arc - The trio leave Hogwarts to engage (in their own way) with the budding war

Plot Arc - Master of Death concepts / abilities

Plot Arc - ???

Side character arc - Ron - (spoilers)

Side character arc - Hermione - (spoilers)

Side plot arc - Romance plot arcs for all three of the trio begin to work out (none match canon pairings)

There are bits and pieces in here that aren't plotted or planned, but the basic shape of this story has been somewhat set in mind for years now. To me it clearly separates itself into three distinct arcs, each of which covers approximately two years of time. Apart from the plot arcs that I view as being overall (dealing with LV and Harry himself) each plot and subplot fits nicely into one of these three overall Parts to the story. Each part would be at least 100k in my mind, though I could be wrong and they could end up being shorter and/or longer.

This thread has already given me a shit ton to think about with regards to these. I still lean towards keeping it as a single story, but comments here have made me at least consider breaking it into a trilogy (though other comments have made me think I should stick with the original plan).

Regardless, it's unlikely I'll ever get it written. But at the same time I fully intend to write it. So I guess we shall see. I've been 'intending' for a damned long time, after all. But yeah - this thread is not about my story because it's a pipe dream at the moment.

I'm just glad it's generating an interesting conversation (imo, at least). And yes - I know there's no 'true' answer to the question at the end of my OP, unless it's a simple 'no.'

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