1. Fanfic Competition -- Topic -- HOGWARTS DAYS

    Word count? 500-17500 words!

    Due date? October 2nd! CLICK HERE! write now!

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Abandoned Like Some Song You Can't Unlearn by BJH - PG13

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by The-Hyphenated-One, Feb 17, 2007.

  1. Mindless

    Mindless Big Boss DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,355
    Location:
    United States
    Yeah, that or his soul being partially eradicated.
     
  2. Palver

    Palver High Inquisitor

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    Lithuania
    What I want to know is this: if the Dark Arts are only the Ministry superstition, then how the Dark Sensors are working?
     
  3. BJH

    BJH First Year

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    32
    Hmm, you have given me some interesting ideas. If you don't mind I will use them in the next session of that class.

    BJH
     
  4. BJH

    BJH First Year

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    32
    Remember if you will, that Crouch was sent to Hogwarts for one purpose and one purpose only, to get Harry to the graveyard at the right time so that Voldemort could use him and then kill him. Teaching Harry anything that could be used against his Master would be counter to that goal therefore why would he tell him the truth? The rest of the students were entirely irrelevant, especially the children of the DEs who escaped punishment by forsaking Voldemort. Or don't you remember Crouch's rant against them or the whole albino ferret incident? And don't try to say it was to fool Dumbledore since we all know how closely he watches his DADA teachers, like Quirrel or Lockhart. If he didn't keep tabs on them why would he on his old friend?

    So now you are a follower of Uber!Harry? If Harry couldn't manage a spell on the first try it must be wrong? How many months did he work on the Patronus before he got it right? How many attempts did it take for him to learn a simple summoning charm? And he was quite motivated in both cases. So, he didn't get the curse right on his first try, he did get close since he knocked her on her arse, didn't he?


    Because that wasn't his assignment, he was only concerned with getting Harry and nothing else. The recruitment of the spawn of disloyal followers was the least of his concerns.

    Ah, circular logic, my favorite. Light wizards don't use Unforgivables. They don't because the Ministry bans them for being Dark, why are they Dark, because the Ministry bans their use. Why did it ban their use, because the are Dark.

    Physician heal thyself.


    So you are saying that a burst of high intensity bio-electric energy can be used to jump start a stalled heart, just as doctors use a burst of electricity to resatart one. Thank you for proving my point.



    And if it can't be done with magic it shouldn't be considered doable? You sound remarkably like a Malfoy. If a solid shield doesn't count as a block since it isn't magic, how about a conjured solid shield? Is that good enough for you? A blocked attack is a blocked attack, period.



    Another self-referencial statement?

    I can take it, the heart of your comments is that you feel the idea of using the premise that the AK was developed as a means of euthanasia is cliche, and that is likely true. On the other hand it is an effective means of delivering the concept that a tool, magical or muggle, is amoral and that it is only the use that tool is put to by a sentient being that can be judges as good or evil.

    The rest of your comments are just a rant.

    BJH
     
  5. BJH

    BJH First Year

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    32
    Indeed, we do have a first hand account of an AK in canon. Cedric Diggory is hit with it in front of Harry. The scene describes the death as being nearly instantaneous with no visible signs of pain or anything other than shock.

    BJH
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2007
  6. ip82

    ip82 Prisoner

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,921
    If he was sent for that purpose alone, then why did he risk that single mission by teaching incorrect information? Wouldn't Dumbledore become suspicious of his old friend?

    If you said "the Ministry had decreed kids should be taught that the Unforgivables are evil", that would be another thing entirely...

    How do you know he didn't? There's no proof of that, especially considering you're pushing manipulative!Dumbledore.

    Exactly, as if he was missing some small detail to keep the curse going...

    In that case, why woulds he botch the Unforgiveable classes?

    Light wizards don't use Unforgivables => there's no need for Crouch to spread misinformation (your theory) when his potential enemies won't use them

    I don't see anything circular in this logic.

    Actually, no I haven't. Cruciatus obviously targets pain centers in brain, while a CPR spell should target the heart directly, or at least infuse entire body with electricity (which produces a different feeling of pain than what is described as Cruciatus).

    Nah, it's just that, while this whole idea of AK = gun might appear logical on the surface, when analyzed deeper, it turns out it's almost completely bogus (not to mention cliched). You don't need any special mind-frame when firing a gun, which can't be said about the Unforgivables - according to EVERYTHING we've seen in the books so far.

    Therefore, in an attempt to make this theory seem feasible, you invent ridiculous conspiracy theories, trying to shoot down heaps and heaps of clues and evidence spread out through the canon. And while I, in general, enjoy such attempts (and even look with sympathy at what you've tried to achieve), I can still point out that, in the end, your upgrade of canon is a shaky house of card without any basis in canon.

    = you don't have an answer, especially to the fact that the entire wizarding world had gone spare over Harry blocking the killing curse.
     
  7. BJH

    BJH First Year

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    32
    This is an assumption on your part not fact nor canon, the Curciatus could just as easily work by overloading the sensory receptors over the entire surface of the body, hence its description as hot knive piercing the skin all over rather than as a stabbing pain in the head. And if you will do a little research you will find that the first developmental stages of electo cardio resusitation were quite painful and damaging to the subject, even with his heart being stopped. It took quite a bit of effort before it became only as dangerous as it is today. And have no doubts about the fact that, improperly used, it can still be fatal. Now, I will admit that a better parallel to the Cruciatus in modern medicine is Electro Shock Therapy, or Electro Convulsive Therapy as it is currently termed, and not cardiac resusitation so let's move on.


    I would hazard a guess that you've never used a gun in a real life situation. To shoot a gun accurately and hit the target, especially under the stress of combat, requires a highly focused and concentrated mindset. Or at least it does if you intend to survive the firefight. Real life ain't like the movies.


    Not that he blocked it since he didn't and we have several canon examples of it being successfully blocked, they go spar because he survived being hit by it. Now stop wasting my time.

    BJH
     
  8. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    Florida
    I tend to agree with Ip82, it seems as if you are trying to change something that there is no basis for which to change it with. You are trying to make the unforgivable's use in medicine when all of canon is refuting you. To say 'what ifs' and 'perhaps' is illogical. The books clearly state you need a want to cause pain to cast the Cruciatus. You have to enjoy and get you 'kicks' so to speak out of inflicting harm in someone else. It doesn't matter who says it is clearly laid out. There is no insinuation in the books that would lead someone to assume Bellatrix is lying. AK while it kills instantly, I would highly doubt its use in medicine. First it's clearly expressed that the Unforgivables are an advanced and difficult branch of magic to perform, and that when AK is used according to HBP, it causes a split in your soul.
    Why then would wizards even have a concept such as euthanasia when magic and intent is so closely tied with a persons soul? It seems with all the advances in medicine wizards have over muggles, euthanasia would be irrelevant.
     
  9. The-Hyphenated-One

    The-Hyphenated-One Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,488
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle
    Let's not all forget that it is an AU fic so BJH can do whatever the hell he wants, regardless of canon.
     
  10. CosmosGravitation

    CosmosGravitation Professor

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    413
    Yes, I concur. As far as canon goes, I tend to lean towards IP82's point of view as well, but I've seen a lot worse stretches then this one. It's no biggie. If it fits the story, go with it.

    BTW BJH, I think I've reviewed before, but I want to say that it's a top notch story. The writing is very good, excellent characterization, etc. Honestly, it's the only reason I go to ficwad's site. I look forward to future chapters.
     
  11. BJH

    BJH First Year

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    32
    This whole conversation regarding the origins of the Unforgivables is getting rather dull. Nowhere in canon does it state the origin of these spells so all speculation to that regard is simply that: speculation.

    There is one point however that I have tried to make repeatedly that doesn't seem to make it past the arguements:

    So when Snape calls Harry lazy, arrogant, spoiled and such we should all just assume that it's true? Of course not, you always have to take into account who is making the statement and what their motivation is. When Snape is speaking about Harry you have to take his personal prejudgices into acount and discount that which does not make logical sense. The same holds true for Bellatrix and Crouch, you must take into account who they were speaking to and why. How can you trust the judgement of a deranged person? Or one who's intent is to deliberately mislead? To assume that they are speaking the truth is illogical.

    We also can not assume that spells work the same way for every individual. Just because Bellatrix powers her Cruciatus curses with a sadistic desire to cause pain that doesn't mean that everyone must. As support for this let us look at the Patronus Charm, a spell that anyone wishing to advance the idea that a spell can be totally either good or evil should have brought forth. When Remus is attempting to teach the charm to Harry in PoA he says that it is powered by a happy memory and the more happy the memory the better. However, when Harry tries this he fails. Instead, it is when he uses his positive emotions rather than a specific memory he succeeds. In the beginning of OotP, when Harry and Dudley are attacked by the dementors, he uses the images of Ron and Hermione and the emotions associated with them to power the spell. So obviously specific memories, as stated by Remus, are not truly needed but are only a vehicle to provide the emotions to power the spell. Perhaps Bella requires her sadistic tendencies to power her spell but that does not mean everyone has to do the same thing.

    Just a minor quibble here, Dumbledore states that the act of commiting a murder rends the soul, no mention is made that it is the AK specifically or solely that makes this happen. Murders committed by any means, as per Dumbledore, have the effect of splitting the soul.

    And as for the Unforgivables being difficult, I'm not sure I would agree with that. They may be obscure or used exclusively for evil intent in canon but I don't recall any reliable statement that they are difficult. Philisophically, it is always easier to destroy than to build. Angry and frustrated adolescents become vandals for just this reason. It is easier to destroy what others have built to vent your anger than to build something of your own. It is easier to kill than to give life. Easier to cause pain than to heal it. The main draw of evil is that it is a shortcut to power. Therefore, it isn't that much of a stretch to think that casting the so-callled Unforgivables wouldn't be more difficult than spells intended to be constructive rather than destructive. Admittedly this is a philisophical arguement but I recall little in canon to base either position.

    BJH
     
  12. deathinapinkboa

    deathinapinkboa Minister of Magic

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,284
    Location:
    Democratic Republic of The Congo
    BJH, shut up and up date.

    Thank you.
     
  13. BJH

    BJH First Year

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    32
    Sir! Yes, SIR!
     
  14. The-Hyphenated-One

    The-Hyphenated-One Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,488
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle
    Lol, that is what I like to hear. Great story BJH
     
  15. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    Florida
    Looking back I think the discussion on AK took a turn for the worst, I'd just like to clarify that being one who reads every and any Time Travel Harry fics, I've come across a lot of crap. This is not one of them. It is one of the few good time travel stories out there; looking through the Time travel section I see a genre that to me seems lacking, hopefully your story will set a trend, and people will endeavor to write good time travel stories.
     
  16. BJH

    BJH First Year

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    32
    Nah, arguements are fun, besides nothing ever gets accomplished through agreement, it is only through conflict that the human condition advances.

    I appreciate the kind words but as I said earlier, I come here for open and even harsh criticism, it makes me think while compliments just make me grin. I enjoy and appreciate them but they need to be tempered with critique.

    BJH
     
  17. Andro

    Andro Master of Death DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    3,947
    That was a fun read. The story's Harry has style, from his merciless execution of the Chocolate Frog and seduction of Narcissa, and the author really took the timeline into consideration. That scene where Narcissa's true age shows was disturbing, but at least it emphasized the fact that Harry's doing a milf.

    The story forces the reader to be attentive, given the lack of explanation for the time jump. Without catching Harry entertaining throwing himself off the Astronomy again, one wouldn't have a clue.

    The only places where I noticed typos in the 12th chapter. Just of the "shear" instead of "sheer" variety.

    Also:

    Yes! Today, I am vindicated!

    That is all.
     
  18. Korisovra

    Korisovra Headmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    1,163
    Location:
    At your mothers house
    I really don't care about the impossibilities or discontinuities......I just think it's a great fic that needs to be updated, damnit!
     
  19. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,672
    Location:
    Virginia, USA

    Yes, Harry is sharp and ruthless, with a wicked sense of humor and (most unusually for Wizards) a grasp of logic.
     
  20. jamorg01

    jamorg01 Muggle

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    4
    please update this story soon i love it. the only thing i think it needs is more harry narcissa, harry with the potters, and death eater killing scenes.
     
Loading...