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[Mafia Game thread] What mafia is this?

Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by Sooh, May 31, 2018.

  1. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    'If you think Newcomb's ISO as a whole is "scum distancing from me" you probably need to reread the bajillion "never lynch dC" posts he makes.'

    Which can't be distancing, since the only kind of distancing is accusatory and not defensive.

    Or, the one which is neither accusatory nor defensive, but things like talking to each other in a completely flat tone for hundreds of posts.
     
  2. dichotomousCreator

    dichotomousCreator Second Year

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    Plus, uh, he was saying "never lynch dC" yesterday and pivoting on to me is a really obvious exercise in assessing who looks like a weak player and targeting them regardless of prior positions.

    Distancing is not defensive. "Defensive distancing" isn't distancing, it's powerwolfing. In fact distancing can't even be accusatory, that's bussing.

    And yeah if you think Newcomb was powerwolfing this game and subsequently got run over D1 then, uh, no. Powerwolfing D1 in general is a horrible idea similar to bussing D1 because you need to know the lay of the land before you can manipulate it effectively.

    (okay actually leaving now)
     
  3. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    .


    Next bit

    513 Talks to Newcomb about Gemma.
    515 Wants to talk to Gemma about Newcomb: 'If you wanna talk about something...how about Newcomb? He has a lot more content than just the thing you jumped on him for.'
    517 After the long case on Newcomb, says he kinds of agrees on the Newcomb case, says will wait for Newcomb to answer. Then pivots to Fable.
    521 Seems genuinely confused when Gemma says her post wasnt a case. Then gives reads, reads on everyone are thin or one liners.
    527- 'I want to scumread Miner for the TWTBAW thing but with you posting a bunch of Newcomb stuff I now have to consider that he does just have actual reasons he hasn't gotten around to stating yet, so so much for that.'

    I dont know of a solving process which connects these two things. The words before and after the 'but' have nothing to do with one another in any town solving process I know of.

    531 Big push on Fable.
    532 (by Fable) "Actually come to think of it idk if dC even knows what my village tone is? Like the only times he saw me village was WH9 where I was self-voting for like 90% of the game and psychichunt where I was mechanically cleared by d2. oh wait the practice game lel. So yeah he's seen me village like once."
    533 'The thing is, I thought you had ONE tone and it was the same for both alignments. Your tone this game is something I haven't seen before, wasn't expecting, wasn't factoring into "I can't read your tone", and on a surface level makes me read you town.' Elaborate
    546 pushes Fable for being weird.
    575- bad acting with the "okay how the hell is this obvious town? It's like NAI at BEST. I can't even see how- oh right you mean he'll be obvious later in the game"

    So far, Gemma and Fable have both pointed out behaviors that don't make sense coming from a town DC, which I wouldn't know about because I do not know DC.

    In any case, rather than doing what he just says he was doing, he's not helping Gemma push Newcomb at all or acting like a double voter.

    He's off chasing Fable here, who is looking at him with suspicion.
     
  4. Prophylaxis

    Prophylaxis Squib

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  5. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    ORLY owl says that's a hoot.

    Next
    Two votes on Newcomb, who you said was 'odd'. Your designated leader pushed him good.

    You respond with:
    Inserting probably wrong ideas in her head.

    You did move onto Fonti with Gemma, though. I will give you that.

    Then she voted for Vaimes.
    Still has Newcomb way down there. Now is voting Vaimes.

    Then Fonti votes for Vaimes. Ooh, spicy wagon!

    So, what do you do here? Nothing. You vanished.

    Then you came back and made a bunch of posts. No vote for Vaimes in them.
    etc etc.
    Ends up on Miner later.
    So yeah, you were doing that. I can believe that is your intended defense for your voting record.

    But notably, whenever Gemma pushed on Newcomb or Vaimes, and you posted in between, your vote was not to follow. And you made attempts at focusing Gemma's attention elsewhere.

    You basically ignored everything that involved both Newcomb and Vaimes. If you were really following Gemma around like a loyal puppy, your selective loyalty is damning.
    --- Post automerged ---
    You danced with Vaimes and Newcomb all day one, and justified your vote moves with this prepared line, I was following Gemma.

    Except on those two specifically.
    --- Post automerged ---
    @fontisian

    He stated he was behaving like Gemma's double voter on you, Jan, and Jarizok, but not on Vaimes and Newcomb and was in the thread for a long time when Gemma pushed both.

    How's that for a shit show.
    --- Post automerged ---
    That's all I got up to in my re-read, and like I said, it was enough.

    The outed scums cleared everyone but Fluff, and I cleared fluff to my satisfaction yesterday.

    Hi ho the derry-o, the cheese stands alone.
    --- Post automerged ---
    Doing an actual full game length iso on DC would take at least 8 hours.

    It is basically impossible for most villagers to actually read DC because he does what I do as scum, post infinity times and no one reads any of it.
    --- Post automerged ---
    With analysis, anyway. Then writing it up and posting it.

    No one has the WIM for that. Even me.
    --- Post automerged ---
    @his fluffiness

    Vaimes and Newcomb d1 shows they were trying to control the cfd, and were confident even though they were both getting pushes. My thought on it being a deep wolf was Fonti, but Fonti was never deep on day one and even if that was their plan, Fonti got permanently un-deep when she tried to bury the Watcher. Fonti would have been in a much better spot if she never does that.

    My legacy is DC over Fonti, always in final 3. Do not lynch Fonti. There are a lot of other interactions which show in her favor which I cited.

    Keeping this really short. I cannot hard clear her but it is good enough.
    --- Post automerged ---
    She also gave no effs at end of day yesterday when she could have reversed on Fable. There is no reason for her to die instead of Fable there.

    Now, she's good enough where it is not clearing, but it's still way in her favor. She was trying to solve.
    --- Post automerged ---
    I've been at this too many hours. I am out!

    Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good lynch. glgl
     
  6. dichotomousCreator

    dichotomousCreator Second Year

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    I'm not getting into this with you, Ghoul. The fact that you COMPLETELY flipped your read immediately on daystart and picked the most obviously weak player in the game to target belies that your entire case is disingenuous. Discrepancies you pointed out boil down to either timezoning or the fact that I was playing inconsistently, which big fucking deal.

    Like.

    hahahahahahahahaha

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    oh wait shit I needa lynch this guy better fucking backpedal

    And sure if we're gonna do sarcastic legacy stuff, always lynch ghoul at F3. No exceptions. He doesn't give two shits about my alignment and would rather go grab a bunch of bullshit out of context and assemble it into a Frankenstein-like monstrosity of a case. I'd rather you lynch him NOW so I can suffer hilariously tomorrow, but it's probably a hit anyway.

    The final nail in this coffin IMO is that his list of locktowns was me/Proph/Miner and one of those got shot and he's trying to lynch the other one.

    He's straight up better at the case game than me so I'm happy to let him run around implying whatever the hell he wants about my play, but the simple fact of the matter is his play yesterday does not segue into an immediate hard casing on me today if he's town.

    (also as a final note my hidden specialty a.k.a. the ONLY part of my townplay that WASN'T tested and horribly ruined by champs is catching people for making disingenuous cases on me. Whoops!)

    There's a few in Little Italy, RWBY mafia was town and one of the witch hunts was scum. Here's the champs game:

    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forum...MU-Emoji-Convention!!!-The-Mafia-Championship

    That was town, and also why my gameplay this game has been odd. I think there was another towngame with me in it on here, and I'll find you a couple CPi scumgames.

    http://forum.chocolatepi.net/showthread.php?tid=1578

    http://forum.chocolatepi.net/showthread.php?tid=939
     
  7. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    Timezoning was not a factor. I checked. You were posting, even after the absence, and if you were following Gemma's votes, you would have changed your vote. You didn't forget the other times, just with Vaimes and Newcomb. And you were in the thread when she pushed Newcomb, so don't feed me that lie.

    Also I am pushing you, you are just OMGUSing.

    Did you just use a consensus locktown getting shot as evidence against me?

    Should I....

    ...break up my sentences. Will that put on a convincing act?
    --- Post automerged ---
    Nope, try again.

    I'd be one choosing the murders in that universe, Dreadful Criminal.

    So it wouldn't have been a surprise that caught me off guard in the middle of that day. You know, worldbuild a bit.
     
  8. dichotomousCreator

    dichotomousCreator Second Year

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    Meh, whatever. Get your lynch then die in F3, scum. I can't be fucked to match your effort.

    And the rest of y'all BETTER follow through. If it's not Ghoul congrats to whoever's left for keeping your head down until I could blow the town up AGAIN.
     
  9. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    *offers you a handshake*

    Sincerely, you kicked ass this game.
     
  10. dichotomousCreator

    dichotomousCreator Second Year

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    I...have no idea what to say about this. On the one hand it's really fucking pissing me off that you think I'm lolcatting or scum-conceding or whatever but on the other it's so conceited I actually have a hard time believing that it's coming from scum.

    I was going to just get mad and waste hours of my life going ham on you over it, but then I had flashbacks to Cathunt where I did this to mallorean_thug and scum just sat on the sidelines and laughed at everyone.
     
  11. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    Well, I am not scum. So, I think I have you cornered and I don't see any other way of reading your post.

    In any case, my objective is not to piss you off. It is simply to find the last scum. That has to be okay even if it's wrong.

    So, to avoid making this an issue, I will take my leave here. If you are scum and I think you are, I think you pulled off under the radar in plain sight better than anyone. It's meant as a sincere compliment.
     
  12. dichotomousCreator

    dichotomousCreator Second Year

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    But like, thinking about it I'm amazed nobody has tried to run me over before now because my play has in fact been hugely inconsistent and overall a giant pile of failure. My initial assumption was that you were just taking advantage of this but then why had nobody attempted this before now? Given how Newcomb/Vaimes acted the scumteam plan was clearly to keep me onside rather than mislynch me and I imagine given how high up everyone ELSE'S townlists I was this would continue being smart going into F3.

    Like. I think even you're aware that I'm F3 material for the discerning scum player who wants to win at this point.

    (and before you say something stupid about "oooh he's backpedaling on me because driving a lynch on me isn't working!!!" the only feedback I've even GOTTEN so far from it is you saying you're not scum which whoop de doo. tbh I think

    but I just cannot fathom a scum player's first reaction to that post being "I'm gonna read it like he's scum and conceding!". It's like, it's a really obvious reading if you have an Actual Scumread but if you're scum and faking it you don't read it like that you read it like a threat aimed at you. Since, y'know, that's what it actually was and the scum player inherently knows this.

    This would not be a good scumgame. I have played horribly regardless of alignment and someone SHOULD have tried lynching me much earlier.

    It's not a good towngame either, but I somehow avoided being mislynch bait until now so ???
    --- Post automerged ---
    Oh yeah, and you can stay and keep talking if you want. Just...

    Act like I've already flipped and you're in F3 and talking to a dead player somehow. If you're going to lynch me anyway it literally doesn't matter.

    Not that I have anything useful to say, but whatever.
    --- Post automerged ---
    like I'm 99% sure if Newcomb/Vaimes left any parting advice for their buddy it was "carry dC through to F3 if you want to win"
    --- Post automerged ---
    And to clarify, the post was...well, exactly what it says: You're scum and my townflip will ruin you, so enjoy it while you can.

    I'm frankly not even sure how you read it as a concession post. It's a concession that your will to lynch is stronger than mine, sure, but that's not even slightly alignment relevant.
     
  13. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    Okay. (at you saying it is okay for me to stay)

    Back when I played a lot, I went full tilt every game as town. Right or wrong, that shit can get annoying. That's why I developed the code of conduct where if someone wants to not discuss my scum read on them anymore, they can stop engaging with me and I will stop engaging them on it. If you make more defenses of yourself I will be obliged to respond, that's the only rule.

    Otherwise yeah, I am perfectly comfortable talking to you as if you were dead town.

    It is not me. Fluff is a real no go. Proph is permanently a no go.

    90 percent of Fonti's game is a town read. She makes some things which are mafia moves.

    Is there ANY reason I do not go there in final 3?
    --- Post automerged ---
    I really did read it as a not conceding but I see the writing on the wall post which gives you permission to plausibly skate out the round without literally conceding, yeah.

    If you didn't mean to do that and I jumped the gun, I really apologize. That's not good on my part regardless.

    In my defense it REALLY looks like that to me.
     
  14. dichotomousCreator

    dichotomousCreator Second Year

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    It's fine, I did the full tilt thing in my LAST game but like I said I drove five mislynches in a row and humiliated myself. I may just be bitter that other people still have the confidence for it, or annoyed that you seem to be making the same mistake I did (given the whole running Fable over thing).

    I'm not sold on fluff. I want you to specifically read this:

    https://forums.darklordpotter.net/threads/wow-mafia-game-thread.37771/

    It is WoW Mafia, fluff's last game and a scumgame. I want you to make sure you can identify fluff as actually playing differently in this game, as he won that game largely by coasting like he has here. Like, if you're looking for an under the radar player then >_>.

    Also you do need other people to help lynch me anyway so I'm not exactly dead in the water at this point. I suppose I could just implicitly trust your gamestate assessment and conclude that it has to be fonti that's scum but I wanna see what proph as my designated town prophet says first.

    Anyway, assuming you come away from the fluff stuff feeling okay (check out a towngame of his somewhere on the site, too?) yeah just hit fonti.

    I suppose it's literally impossible for me to see it that way, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :V
    --- Post automerged ---
    Anyway I'm heading out now. I do have a couple more thoughts but I'd like to wait and see how people react to this shitfest first, as it seems important.
    --- Post automerged ---
    oh yeah also RE: writing on the wall, give me SOME credit. I'd at least wait until other people actually vocally agreed with you before concluding that. Your position is pretty bad right now and you getting lynched over me is not at ALL implausible even with your large case, assuming I choose to stick on you.

    Oh which reminds me:

    Unvote

    Oh whoops it's a naked unvote! Oh nooooo~
     
  15. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    Yeah, I did read that. Remember when I said people don't read my posts? I actually went over it in this thread.

    But to be clear, Fluff is a range where you can't lock him town or lock him wolf on the merits of his posts. You can only get a lot of evidence together and be really confident.

    In this game, none of the scums did anything I can identify which locks him either way. So the read on fluff is absolutely based on observing that scum game in particular and noting his mafia moves.

    Those are ones where he talks to his partner, generates fake interactions with his partner, busses, defends, or just shoots the breeze.

    Why I call them mafia moves is because those are intended to push the team's victory, and it is the sole thing that separates a scum game from a town game. Townies can incidentally look like they're doing that, but if you go based off of that, it finds them.

    The only way it does not work is if the scum team dedicates themselves to reaching exactly the same equilibrium as an average townie in terms of things that can look like mafia moves. Basically they have to play like they're unaligned so much that they never seem to advance their win condition conspicuously. I've never seen a scum team try to do that and succeed for an entire game.

    Fluff's posts in WoW are largely mafia moves.

    There are some which are not team-based. The ones where you influence townies to think a certain way, to get to a path that wins.

    Those are a lot harder to spot and are almost indistinguishable from bad town moves.

    Which is why I think one scum or a serial killer is a lot harder to catch.

    For those, it's on an individual post level, logic which doesn't fly, being disingenuous. Looking like you are not solving the game.

    That has a high rate of being wrong because townies do that a lot. This game is a rather big example of it so far, to my dismay.

    When I did a very thorough ISO on Fluff this game, it's not matching.

    Anything which could be considered a mafia move is maybe 5 percent of his posts, indistinguishable from the noise any townie will make.

    That's why I got so confident on someone people have trouble reading.

    But let's be real, it's a lot easier to generate a READ on him, he does not have a kajillion posts.

    It's harder to read someone who does, if they're any good at it.

    I think I got a firm handle on Fluff. He's not wolfing here. It's only one game meta but it's really big in terms of difference.

    Is there anything you specifically disagree on you need me to look at?
    --- Post automerged ---
    To add: maybe we can't see it at the time, but in retrospect you can find it.

    So if it is visible behavior in retrospect, look at it now and see if it is there. That's what I did with both of you, and Gemma.

    Fonti is not a complete re-read yet, but there's a lot on in-thread indications that it isn't her, based on the dead scum interactions.

    Some mafia moves, but not really out of the ordinary. They did come at critical times, which is why she's not as high as fluff.
    --- Post automerged ---
    I was in a game with four wolves.

    On day one, I drove the lynch on one, based on his meta. I was handed a gun because people thought I was town. On day two, one of the peeps defending that guy got lynched, and I shot the other guy night two.

    For the entire rest of the game I charged at one townie after another, and that game ended because I couldn't persuade the people that the guy with five posts was a townie. I had one third of the posts that game, and it took a month. I know that feel, sir. Worse, is it was a great game, and then it went to shit. This game, I do not want it to be a repeat. That's why I poured my soul into this. If I lynched today, all I wanted is to see my suspect, the correct suspect, lynch in final 3. It would redeem a bad game.

    I will not walk away from this game until it is a town victory.
     
  16. fontisian

    fontisian Slug Club Member

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    It case it hasn't been pointed out yet, there is an iso option. It's the little magnifying glass under each person's avatar.
     
  17. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    You gotta be kidding me.

    Hahahaha.... that's great.

    I am too friggen exhausted to use it right now, but I am breaking that bad boy open when I wake up.
    --- Post automerged ---
    It's even one click to use. No enter name and thread bullshit. Swanky.

    Thanks!
     
  18. fontisian

    fontisian Slug Club Member

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    I'm so, so tired.

    I'm going to attempt to read all of ghoul's stuff Today before I pass out, but I don't expect to actually manage it.
     
  19. Ghouliani

    Ghouliani Muggle

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    You are still solving me now, and you were still solving me at the end of the last Day.

    I appreciate it and it is the towniest part of your game. You also didn't be a big ole jerk to me while casing me, and I really appreciated that in particular.
     
  20. fontisian

    fontisian Slug Club Member

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    Thank you.

    I still think you're mafia, to be clear. Like, if I accept your read on fluff (which I kind of have to because I can't just clear Fable any more and with miner gone I don't see myself living in final 3), and if your case on dC doesn't blow my mind (I'm not expecting it to, I'm like 98% sure dC is town), and you keep supporting the townread on Gemma's slot (99% sure) then that just leaves you.

    I also had a feeling miner was going to die last night, though I thought there was a chance scum!you would kill Proph as he knows who you are.
     
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