(post-April Fools) Dueling and different fields therein

Okay, so now that I have your attention, I'd like to open a discussion about dueling.

I've been off and on sinking some thoughts into how to expand upon the subject for a fic I'm working on. The gist is that I've broken it down into three divisions, practiced throughout the world, generally involving tournaments of assorted time-investment, and that either the local Ministry or other governing body or sovereignty sets the standard for who is and who is not allowed to call themselves a 'professional' duelist.

Any lark with a stick and some spell repertoire can step up to the dais and get lucky. It takes a genuine understanding of magic, good wit, intuition, ingenuity, and investment, to survive amongst masters of the art.

Here is what I have jotted down on the respective divisions.

Free wand. This is the most common form of dueling found throughout the world, with the most practitioners and masters out of the three divisions.

• As the name implies the wand and the wizard/witch have no magical limiters imposed upon them.
• Any spell that comes to mind may be exercised provided it does not break local laws.
• A Second, or replacement duelist, is usually allowed in the case death.
• Subdivision: Staves. Without a core to ease the harnessing of magic, a wizard or witch must have a full understanding of the spell which they intend to invoke in order to manifest the magic. These lengthier pieces wholly made from wood are carved out of the same type of tree as that which the duelist's wand comes from, to enable the best connection.

Magical core is something of a misnomer applied in recent decades. Each duelist is given a pair of bands linked by sympathetic magic and runes, one to be worn around the base of the wand, the other on the wand-dominant hand(any finger).

• When spells are cast, the bands siphon some of the magic away and store it into a receptacle made for each duelist for that tournament.
• When the receptacle reaches its quota, it activates a clause that denies further magic to pass through the 'channel', that is to say the wand, essentially choking off intent from manifestation.
• Associated runes applied to the dueling dais register the magic in play, and in order to ensure that no cheating is performed via wandless or other outside influence, the band on the hand, wand, and the runes on the dais create a unique 'magical signature' and magic that does not match the signature of either duelist or their approved Second is halted by a secondary clause akin to the first.
• The receptacle will drain over time. If it remains full at the time of the next match, a Second may be allowed to step in with a smaller receptacle tied to their magical signature.

Wandless dueling is the rarest and the most difficult method, with very few practitioners and fewer still masters.

• With no middleman(wand/core/stave) to assist in the easing of turning intent into reality, the manifestation of spells requires much greater knowledge, depth of understanding, and conceptualizing strength in order to invoke.
• Hand gestures and body movement can stand in for the motions made with a wand.
• Some prefer to chant or to shout, believing that to voice their spells will offer some assistance, while others rely on the power of thought alone with nonverbal casting.
• No Second is allowed. Given the rarity of those who can perform at this level, each duelist relies only on themselves.

That's what I've got, more or less. Do the different divisions make sense on their own, and/or in conjunction with one another? Should I abandon any attempt to work the second division into things? I want to have Harry work his way through them, essentially mastering the first division by his mid to late twenties, while also dabbling in the others.

 

Free wand. This is the most common form of dueling found throughout the world, with the most practitioners and masters out of the three divisions.

• As the name implies the wand and the wizard/witch have no magical limiters imposed upon them.
• Any spell that comes to mind may be exercised provided it does not break local laws and that they have the practice and talent to invoke it. Unnecessary regulation, as it is a given a wizard who cannot cast a particular spell, won't.
  
• A Second, or replacement duelist, is usually allowed in the case of injury, illness, or death. Bugger that, just death.
  
• Subdivision: Staves. Without a core to ease the harnessing of magic, a wizard or witch must have a full understanding of the spell which they intend to invoke in order to manifest the magic. These lengthier pieces wholly made from wood are carved out of the same type of tree as that which the duelist's wand comes from, to enable the best connection.
  
  Unless there's a reason why you need a staves bracket, this feels superflous at best, attempt to imitate TLIL at worst. But the logic isn't terrible so I supposed you could make it work. I don't like the idea that wizards are all attuned to a particular type of wood almost by default: I like to think there's more to wands than 'are you best suited for ash or cherry, phoenix feather or unicorn hair'.

[Magical core...]This is so far removed from HP canon that I'd have to see it to judge it. At this point though, it's just a question of coming up with a system, making sure it's internally consistent, and selling it.



[Wandless...] Fair enough. Only the 'subdivision' strikes me as silly - with so few practitioners anyway (and verbal casting viewed as a personal quirk) it seems needless.

 

Thank you for the thoughts, vlad. I've cleaned up the first two as that does make more sense at their level once I thought about it further.

I'm probably going to keep the staves in the conceptual world I'm working on as I imagine that at least a couple of different cultures would probably utilize those over wands, and having Harry run up against say an actual Nigerian Prince who is a real master with the art would make for a good scene, if not a minor rival for that particular portion of the backdrop.

EDIT: And since I missed the next part of that you mention about being attuned to different woods, I was trying to rationalize why certain wand elements fit different wizards. What makes wands work so well with wizards would have to be whatever the process behind their creation is by the wandmaker, an area that I admittedly haven't put as much thought into, but I figured that surely something about that process would have to be lacking without a core, some kind of specific steps/spells involved, and going by the idea of different wood types having pairings with different core types to have better or worse parings with wizards, I figured to ease it back to, at the most basic, if wizard A would theoretically have an ash wand, then why shouldn't an ash stave likewise be the best match?

Fair enough, thank you. This is probably the one I've tried to make the most sense out of off and on over the months, but even then I've revised again and again as recently as when I posted the topic.

That's something I revised then too, and in hindsight I agree it is impractical given the other notes, so I've adjusted for that.

I appreciate your thoughts.

 

And then what? Is it the end of a duel or the second is allowed? Restricting the amount of magic one can use is an interesting move but I wonder what exactly that means for duellists. And then there is a question how one know when the receptacle will reach its quota.

I'd like to read that.

 

It might well be, but at the same time, the presence of the wand core might not.

I'm taking all my info from a single site. It's about British folklore, so relevant to HP, but it's only one source.

Ash is linked with spears, Vikings, protection, healing, hot fires, and child birth.

I'm not looking up all the symbolism for beasts, but... A wand with a phoenix core is likely (based on the symbolism of phoenixes) to do well with healing. A wand with a unicorn horn might do well with spears, and dealing damage. A dragon wand might do well with setting things on fire.

On the other hand, an ash stave might do all of these things better than average, but not do as well with healing as holly wood (linked with rebirth, healing, and protection, without spears, fires or Vikings) would.

But I don't think most readers would really look into symbolism for what wood is used. It is going the extra mile, which is good, but at the same point it might just be ignored. I, for one, don't look up animal or wood symbolism when I see it mentioned in a story, unless it is specifically brought up by characters.

I don't see any reason to remove staves, but I'm not sure why they're folded into the "free wand" category whilst wandless magic isn't?

 

Re wood: put it this way, if Ollivander made 100 wands from the same tree and the same dragon/unicorn/phoenix, I do not believe they would act exactly the same way. Wood+Core+something intrinsically magical that can't be quantified by a simple formula. Wands are, in their own way, alive.

They may share more in common with brother wands or similar wands than with wholly different wands, but they are individuals. You can't mass produce them for predicted, precise outcomes.

 

The way I envisioned it, the outcome would depend on the scenario.

• Duelist A spends all of his allotted magic and cannot cast any further spells. Duelist B still has magic left and promptly knocks duelist A off the dais.
• Both duelist A and B spend all of their allotted magic. Depending on the tournament, they're both eliminated, OR, their designated Second's step forward, and in the case of the latter, if both stalemate, the matter comes before arbitrators.
• Duelist A has just enough magic to defeat duelist B, however, when his name is drawn for the next match against duelist C, duelist A realizes that he is incapable of summoning any further magic; in which case his designated Second steps in before the match begins with a smaller allotment of magic available. If the Second wins, duelist A is allowed to advance.
• In accordance with the above situation, in order to ensure that a duelist does not advance chiefly by the merits of their Second, they are not permitted more than one such occurrence per tournament, OR after reaching a certain placement in the ranks(ie the quarterfinals, semifinals, etc), in which case they are eliminated and duelist B, if still retaining some magic, may be allowed to return and challenge duelist C rather than simply advancing duelist C.
• And lastly if the tournament is small enough or prestigious enough, a Second is not allowed at all, and duelist A is flatly eliminated in all situations where their magic allotment has been met.

Regarding the receptacles, I'm torn. Allowing the devices to be visible somewhere within the duelists' line of sight or otherwise inform them as it fills would allow them to make an estimate to their usage and thus probably lead to more accurate if fairer matches, provided either duelist could turn their attention away from one another to focus briefly on the receptacles.

Keeping said devices out of sight/silenced during the match, say with an arbitrator, would mean that the duelists would have to learn by example and failure just what their limit is and always keep that in mind. On the other hand, the same could be said of the receptacles being in plain sight, once one is skilled enough it is no longer necessary to examine.

That is some very helpful information that I will take into account, and I may ramble a bit here as I get my thoughts in order. You're right about the wand core and the wood, as I'd been assuming that regardless of the core, the wood was what mattered most in this situation, but that might only be a part of the equation - without a matching core, a wizard with an ash wand going to an ash stave may not get any meaningful result out of it.

I don't want to try and include some kind of stave core like a wand core, as that comes across as cheap to me now that I'm thinking more on the subject(Although if the wizard were to include some kind of particle/tribute/charm made from the same aspect as their wand core on their body that it might help them when working with a stave, or would they still need the spells involved with wandmaking?).

Maybe it's in whatever treatment is used to turn an ordinary piece of whichever tree into a magical instrument. Would you suppose that a stave should have some kind of even more primal intellect than what we've been told of wandlore regarding wands? Less picky - if wizards A through F have the right 'sense', they can pick up stave 1 and use it with no particular trouble or allegiance issues?

I'd included staves with 'free wand' as I was thinking of them as just bigger, dumber wands up until now, and now I'm thinking they should probably go into their own category alongside 'free wand' 'magical core' and 'wandless'. Wandless wasn't included there as I figured it was unique enough and difficult enough to warrant its own separate division.

That's right. This is a lot of great food for thought, guys, and I really appreciate working through this with y'all.

 

Personal thoughts incoming.

Ancient wizards would not have known ex nihilo that they needed to use wands. I would have thought the first magics would be wandless. Whether that be rune based, potion based, or just casting magic from the hands doesn't matter. I don't think the idea of a wand would be something easily generated.

From there, however, the wizards would be casting basic spells from the hands. It's wild, because you have five potential points on your hand the magic might be targeted from. The idea of using something to direct the magic isn't completely unfeasable.

But the wood itself is generally inert. It isn't magical, it's just wood.

I like the idea that not only is a stave personal, it's actually made by the wizard themself. Wands have a vein of a magical animal running through them, which allows a wizard to use them to cast magic. But a stave is like an extension of the self, you pour yourself into the creation of it - finding the right length of wood, getting the correct heft to it, and moulding the grip so it fits nicely in your hand. It isn't a small thing you're carrying around, so you want it to be easy to take with you. And as you grow and change, so too does your stave - totems from powerful foes you've overcome, or carvings to show important life events.

And whilst they may be more personal than a wand, and they are something you can almost view as you existing outside you... They're still just wood. They don't carry magic as well as a phoenix feather does. They don't really do sophistication, they don't do subtle. A stave does force, it does basic, primal magic. And, if all else fails, you can beat someone around the head with it.

EDIT

If you're thinking about doing wands,staves,wandless,limited as leagues, I'd be tempted to add a "freestyle". Anything goes - potions, enchantments, a wand in each hand and a staff up your arse - even if some picks are "off meta".

 

The only thing I would add to Thaumologist excellent post is that some trees are magical, even barring (pottermore?) explanation that only some yew or some ash are "suitable" for wand making... can you make a wand out of a whomping willow? Are there other types of tree that are inherently magical? If so, is there a reason why Ollivander doesn't appear to use them, but sticks to particular trees that are otherwise mundane?

Neville the herbolomancer, using a wand of mumbul-whatever, with a core of mandrake...

 

This reminds me way too much of video games like Tekken(?) where you have a limited amount of force to exercise. It might work in video games, but it would be very lame for any kind of story, too autistic and unmagical for my taste. Staves don't sound special enough to warrant a place in any story.

You sometimes get the feeling that people like to add bits of world building simply to have a more seemingly complex world, even if those bits aren't really interesting. It's just lazy.

 

I think all of these are a bit too "freestyle". If you're wanting to make duelling into a sport and not just fighting/honour duels, then you need to make them a lot more like a sport. What you've got here at the moment is basically the wizarding version of cage fighting. The variations are essentially cage fighting with different weapons.

If duelling is to be a sport, it needs to be much further divorced from actual fighting and significantly more rule bound in order to make it a contest of specific skills. If I were you I'd take heavy inspiration from boxing. Maybe have there be 3-4 attack spells which have been especially designed for duelling sport - the equivalents of straight punch, uppercut, etc - and a single blocking spell. By limiting spell selection so severely you've focused the sport not on general magical knowledge but rather on the specific skill of duelling within those rules. It becomes about training and execution, not a general test of magical ability like a fight is.

 

Wow. Taure's post is one I'd never thought of, but now that I've read it I can't picture a professional dueling sport happening any other way.

I really like the idea. Free for all for the cage fights, but very regulated list of spells for organized sport.