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Magical Raised vs Muggle-raised

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by guestreader, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    I see your Tom Riddle and raise you an Albus Dumbledore. Your Lily is a blatant exaggeration (Snape, James and Sirius have far better showings, from that generation, and she was only ever said to be good at Charms and I think Potions). Your Hermione is less of one but still an exaggeration (see: Percy Weasley).
     
  2. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Snape was muggle-raised too.
     
  3. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    ...how so?
     
  4. Peter North

    Peter North Dark Lord

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    He was also had a witch mother that he grew up with.

    Also we never got a very good insight into wordless magic. How likely would it be that a witch/wizard's parent/s could practice all their magic without saying the incantation?
    I mean could a magic raised student go to Hogwarts knowing his parents use magic, but not know that you have to know the incantations for some magic? If that's true it would then make more sense that Ron thought the twins were giving him a magic incantation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  5. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    We got insight into it. Nonverbal magic is something only the top students in Defense Against the Dark Arts get to learn, and like with all schoolwork not everyone who manages to test into the class does well at it. Every Tom, Dick and Harry knowing it is fanon.
     
  6. Peter North

    Peter North Dark Lord

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    Right thanks. I had forgotten Snape's paragraph in HBP
     
  7. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    He lived in the muggle world, associated with muggle children (aside from Lily), and had a muggle father. The only wizarding influence in his life was his mother. Presumably he went to muggle primary school as well, given that they lived away from magical society.

    This is also heavily implied by the way he defended the Philosopher's Stone; he used muggle logic, which is at the very least unusual to pureblood wizards, at the most completely alien.
     
  8. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    What exactly does "lived in the muggle world" mean? Why does Snape live in the muggle world and the Weasleys - who live in St Ottery Catchpole and probably have muggle neighbours live nearby - don't?

    None of this (aside from Snape having a muggle father) is canon.

    Snape knew about magic and knew the ins and outs of the wizarding world. If Sirius is to be believed, Snape knew more about the Dark Arts coming into school than most seventh years. Given the context here, I don't see how you can call Snape "muggle raised". Magic certainly isn't new to him.
     
  9. guestreader

    guestreader First Year

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    Some people could make an argument that Snape and Lily investigated magic together before Hogwarts and it was the base of their friendship. If that is true then does she truly count as muggle-raised or she hybrid enough that she counts as an exception?
    The core question for me I guess is how much would parents be able to explain, hints and tips. We all see in HBP how much Harry's potion's grade improves with the HBP's book. We can assume that he never improves his understanding but I can imagine magical parents either having their old notes or giving different explanations to teachers that might help their child.
    We aren't asking whether a magical child should know everything and jump into NEWTs as per some poor fanon but would they be maybe six months ahead? Would they spend their time till christmas bored? Would they potentially resent muggle-raised for holding them back?
     
  10. bbfun

    bbfun Squib

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    If I remember correctly Gabrielle attends Beauxbatons at the age of 8. Maybe this is an attempt to introduce muggle borns at an earlier so they won't be as disadvantaged compared to their magical counterparts.
     
  11. ThisWildLife

    ThisWildLife Disappeared

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    It's never mentioned in Goblet of Fire that Gabrielle is attending Beauxbatons at the time of the Second Task. Haven't watched the film in a while, but it's definitely not said anywhere in the book.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  12. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    Gabrielle simply visited Fleur at Hogwarts. She's not attending Beauxbatons.
     
  13. raobuntu

    raobuntu Seventh Year

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    Magical raised, I think has more to do with growing up surrounded by magic more than where you were born. Someone could live in a muggle neighborhood and still have grown up with magic. They'd just have to keep it under the radar so the neighbors won't find out.

    But, it does seem advantageous to live farther away from civilization as a magical family (Lovegoods, Weasleys, Malfoys, etc.) You wouldn't have to constantly be on edge about not accidentally revealing anything.

    Anyways, my point is that Lily may have investigated her magic, but she's still new to the world. Stuff like floo travel, apparition, kneazles, aren't second nature. I think that really disqualified her from being magically raised
     
  14. Graves

    Graves Squib

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    I imagine both sides has their pros and cons. The muggle born have a easy time blending in with muggle society. Magical kids understand magical society better.
     
  15. Legend3381

    Legend3381 Seventh Year

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    I think magical society is stagnant and magic raised wizards and witches take magic for granted. There is a lack of innovation and creativity in magical society. They also lack common sense.

    Muggle borns come in at a disadvantage not being immersed in magic since birth. But for the right person, that can become an advantage later one. The muggle side can fuel a different way of thinking
     
  16. s0ng2Sing

    s0ng2Sing Third Year

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    I suppose that both sides have advantages and disadvantages. But I think it is likely that it was true that Magical-raised were better than Muggle-raised for an extended period of time, certainly before formal education and literacy became as common as they are currently. Magical-raised most likely had a better education, in terms of arithmetic and reading/writing, than the average Muggle-raised before the 1800's (in 1820 apparently only 12% of the world population was literate). So up until the 1900's it was probably true, but after that they were likely on equal ground in the area of literacy/arithmetic.

    Of course Magical-raised always had the cultural advantage, they knew terms and had connections they could call upon for help. But Muggle-raised probably were bringing more ideas and perspectives that their counterparts lacked.
     
  17. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Leaving aside that it's not a matter of opinion whether children who grew up in the magical world have an advantage -- they do, in subject material matters, see my quote from PS on page two -- all of the last posts miss the point.

    What good is coming from a different background, if all you want to do is get a job, earn money, and otherwise be a part of this new world? It's useless. And what's more, since it initially comes instead of knowledge of the new world, it's a very bad trade, in other words: a hindrance or disadvantage.

    Looking at things in a different way is helpful if you want to solve problems. How many people solve problems on a regular basis in every day life (not even asking how many make a living with that)? Exactly.

    Also, that magical society is stagnant is not something that can be concluded from Canon. We know of active research, with conferences and the like, and also about recent inventions, such as the Wolfsbane potion.

    TL;DR: No.
     
  18. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony ~ Prestige ~

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    Yeah, the only thing I can think of that would make one call magical society stagnant is that a lot of purebloods don't have and aren't familiar with the latest muggle tech. They certainly seem active and dynamic enough within magical society itself.

    I suppose one could also complain about magical society having pureblood elites as a sign of their being backwards or stagnant, but it's not like modern society has no issues with racism of the 1%.
     
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