Finally took time to read through and itemize some thoughts. Fundamentally it comes down to this: The more we engage, the more we improve. The issue is doing so while maintaining the high bar.

Not an impossible ask. I'll illustrate a couple of mechanisms we can focus restructuring around.

The first being to restore our status as a mecca for established writers, aspiring writers, and quality feedback. Obviously I'm not suggesting we cater to writers solipsistically. Demand for content is what sustains us. But actual content creation is like fake news — briefly relieves our dopamine fix and drives the viral loop forward. If we can corral and nurture talent, whether homegrown or thru invites, we embiggen the memetic engine.

The quarterlies are a promising seeding ground, but is really the most basic version of what could be so far. I think people get that. There's been some discussion on the lack of writers and graders, and @Ched 's even anticipated a concern I wanted to bring up, which is a lack of process to keep people connected and writing. To wit:

Spoiler: Story Comp, Writer-Side

On the writer-side, we need more participation and an established standard of competition quality. It's quality that'll carry the day — make "Winner of DLP Story Comp" a stamp worth vying for and set an aspirational threshold for new writers to clear. This'll naturally average out to our usual, provided DLPers keep writing, quarterly on quarterly. But we can quicken the pace.

Without a proactive strategy to support new talent, there's actually decent barrier-of-entry to submission and a fair chance of attrition. Lack of marketing/awareness means we're basically relying on old hands. Lack of group ideation means you're on your own for research, if you're not terribly familiar with canon (like me!), and simultaneously trying to improve on writing standards that aren't presently well-defined. It's a pretty solitary experience, especially for a lurker with potential but fails to see a workable angle to start from. And a pretty decent energy/time-sink for a competition that's both nebulous about what it wants and isn't (yet) all that prestigious.

I suggest we formally flesh the process out a bit. Ched's already begun encouraging group ideation while the voting stage narrows to a definitive prompt. Post-vote, let's extend that into a second stage, all the way up till submission time, to share and compile resources on canon/alt-systems and approaches to the prompt. This'll make it easier not only for DLP newbies, but also writers who tend to write other fandoms.

Additionally, and noted in my version of the re-org below, we should open up a new subforum for writing resources under Room of Requirement, consolidating all relevant pinned threads (and there are many) scattered throughout DLP into one location. Let this subforum be visibly dedicated to discussions on elevating writing standards, whether characterization, plot, dialogue, pacing, etc. Story competitors should be encouraged to reference this alongside the canon/alt materials.

Perhaps a subgroup of participants could get together to form a 100 word/day group, with rolling membership for whomever feels ready, having collected/outlined sufficient material, to commit. Length is no requirement, and I'd like to see a tightly crafted 1k submission aim to outscore a slew of 10k epics.

Lastly, I suggest we require competitors to highlight one aspect of their writing they were looking to improve while working on their specific submission. Reviewers should be asked to give particular feedback to this aspect alongside the standard review template.

Spoiler: Story Comp, Reader-Side

The other end to supporting new talent is a clear guarantee on what we as readers can deliver. What makes us, an ornery band of bandits, a jury worth the energy to write for? Later is obvious, but presently expectations have to be established, marketed, sold.

"If you submit, we promise to make you a better writer." That's a great promise, but it bespeaks an underlying philosophy to the competition that I'm not sure is fully recognized ATM. If there's a good faith submission, then it deserves to be reviewed, and not just sidelined because "my favorite/superior submission is winning."

We're a community of readers, and that means as much that we can improve on our formal reading and critiquing skills. We should, in fact, explicitly aim to do so. Great critiques deserve to be feated (and should earn forum cred) as much as great prose. At the bare minimum, each review should, beyond the usual drive-by emissions on plot/pacing/characters/etc, illuminate one part insightfully and with sufficient detail to point the author in the direction of a concrete follow-up.

Reading is an extraordinarily complex class of subskills with potential to go far beyond what most take for granted (superficial informational reading). I think we can all stand to become better readers.

Spoiler: Story Comp, End Game

Follow-up is über important. Writing is a process of revisioning, and if we're going to commit to the promise of "making you a better writer," we need to keep that train going. What's more, reinforces communal engagement, especially among newer talent who've just gotten shat on In Review. If the competition is merely a journey of discovery (and not just discouragement), then it's the follow-up that solidifies the connection with DLP.

Which is why we should position Story Comps as a subforum of its own, with front-page visibility under Room of Requirement, and open up general thread-space as a dedicated WbA area for authors following up on critiques. They should be highly encouraged to do so. Besides, isn't it a shame that winning submissions are frozen in time, behind locked threads? And that writers have little actual one-on-one interaction with the community, given their anonymity for the duration of the contest?

I suggest having a separate discussion area in Story Comps instead of authors submitting separately to WbA for the reasons that (1) it's more convenient to reference critiques from the same folder than a different branch of folder (2) expectations of story comps are quite different from those of fully fleshed out fics, being more intensive technique refinement than continuation of a longer-form story (so focusing only on snippets should be fine... there's less commitment pressure, more practice polishing). That said, if say @Selethe intends to make a proper adventure of Axis Shift, original WbA would be just as appropriate (3) more sustained traffic to Story Comps in general.

To quote @Zombie quoting Sauce, "DLP is filled with authors that either hate their own writing now, or have moved on from the fandom to do their own thing." Well, Kafka thought the Metamorphosis was a poor piece of work with an unpublishable ending. "Imperfect to its marrow." Personally I'll never be content with my writing, my natural leaning towards essays and speeches. But at least I'm interested in examining where I'm competent and where I've to improve — I think that's all that's worth asking of each other to get this going.

I suggest if we make the quarterlies work, there'll be a trickle-down effect as engagement patterns between members of the site strengthen in quantity and quality. It should be fun, as Zombro keeps pointing out; engrossing; a positive reward loop for serious participants (and not just winners); and get each of us to scratch some measure of personal progress according to our own small, well-defined stepping stones.

===================

The second mechanism (the kernels of my arguments are exactly @TMD 's) revolves around DLP as a compiler of materials for the pleasure of the deserving reader — us. DLP has such a rich history, it seems criminal to neglect the non-non-savoury site-specific content that already has inherent value.

Spoiler: Anecdotal Inspiration

A (non-fandom) forum I know transitioned to Xenforo shortly before we did and saw a substantive dip in established user activity, given radical changes in interface.

Arguably the forum was well beyond its core enthusiasts' heyday, the exhaustively detailed and philosophical Taurish arguments long in the past. Much of the Old Guard was gone. But aspirational casuals and lurkers, and now commercial partners filled the breaches — and the site is still mostly referenced for its trove of knowledge and the calibrated opinions of posters influenced by yore. It is a place of tastemakers, more than ever.

The moderators have sought to bring its inherent advantages to the fore with "front-page" status (and a parallel newsletter), redirecting viewers to popping new discussions and salient educational ones from '04, '08, '13, etc.

Fundamental principles never go out of style.

I suggest we do something similar, with a Tutorial & Useful Links subforum. This would be the section for DLP acculturation, where we organize links to the kinds of iconic discussions that showcase the best of DLP contributions to various fandoms over the years. A meta-sub compiling meta-summations of previously trod ground, so-to-speak. (We'd have to lock up all reference threads obviously, to avoid necro'ing and have people open new threads of their own.)

@TheLazyReader brought up Taure and Scott reposting arguments in a discussion that was essentially relitigating the issue. That's not weakness but strength. We don't want DLP to be a dog chasing its tail, but rather full of amused thinkers interested in building atop what's already been done, to carve out new ground. Want to advance a point of canon? Do your research, enumerate your objections, and unleash a proper argument in General Discussion. If it's anything to do with something Scott said, I'm sure you'll both have fun refuting each other and figuring out where you part ways such that your alternative account legitimately stands.

DLP will benefit from and be intrigued by it.

Spoiler: More Anecdotal Talk

That's at least how I try to look at Politics. It's in that spirit that DLPers approached the Second Amendment thread — took its contained, definitive nature to at least try to break down and advance arguments on both sides, so that people could at least be the most educated versions of themselves while knowing where they stood relative to each other. I've learnt a great deal from 2A, even as I haven't finished reading the most useful bits, because sorting through all the redundant, lower-level clusterfucky parts is a bitch.

My point is, despite a relatively recent posterdom, I've an affinity for the community that runs deeper, in no small part thanks to checking lulzy IRC records (waves to @Irene !) and other parts of DLP history.

Indexing the relevant, iconic posts/material would serve as a gateway to rapidly bootstrapping the quality of newbie involvement. Can we create a convenient system for quick reference? I think so.

How? By combining a Useful Links subforum with a user-affinity for the Xenforo Search Function.

It's magical, truly. With the right indexing cues, the entirety of the forum's at one's fingertips. Reaching for it's been second-nature ever since the other forum I mentioned, after their switch to Xenforo, decided to start holding an annual Easter contest with Eggs embedded in random posts, indirect clues to index for, and several hundred dollars' worth of affiliate prizes at stake.

We might do something similar (without the affiliate prizes, ha). A site-wide DLP/fandom trivia contest is really a very effective way to condition someone into using forum tools like the search bar, tags, and Scryer and drive up engagement in the short- and long-term.

===================

I won't call it gamification, but we should have a reward/recognition mechanism, separate from thumbs collected, for contributions well-and-above the minimal bar to quality engagement. A tack on to Prestige — prestige points? Perhaps you'd earn prestige for iconic submissions/critiques/domain expertise. Stuff that deserves to be referenced in one way or another, flagged as a point of DLP pride. We don't need inter-house competition. We're all DLPers looking to achieve (and consume, omnomnom) and egg each other on with distinction.

Alternately, can go with the Paradox Forum distinction scheme.

===================

DLP culture is perfect the way it is. You learn to take your hits and hit back, and I say this as someone who doesn't see much point in being an asshole. We just need to provide some tools for those who want to try at a higher level of discourse. I'm happy to help set them up, of course.

@Dr. Strange Lulz mentioned first impressions are important. I agree. That's why I'm modifying Sauce's original re-org a bit. When DLP loads, what you first see on-screen is what's going to impress on you. Presuming we're all conditioned to scroll down-page, there should be a natural topical flow to the scroll based on how we prioritize pitching our brand to the casual viewer.

Spoiler: Metaphysical Format 2.0

Great Hall sets the tone. Putting Tutorials & Useful Links front-and-center is a blaring sign — this is the welcome mat for newbies that we direct them to on sign-up alerts. We should collate the relevant tutorials and establish threads that link to iconic DLP materials/discussions — sort of like a reference sheet to DLP's DNA.

The basic impression given is accessible, even personable but with clear standards.

===================

Room of Requirement is the meaty action where writers interact with readers. It's where I expect readers to flock for most recent updates and serves as our recruiting channel for writers and reader-to-writer conversion. Standards here are highest — structured discussions mostly — but also where there's most support for aspiring writers to improve.

Story Competitions should be its own sub-forum, as mentioned; deserves its own visibility. DLP Anthology falls here and is naturally a grown-up (dare I say, apex) version.

Bookclub could be a permanent fixture in our RoR activity scheme. I looked through bookclub threads, and discussion definitely takes on a more focused flavor than the general common room: critiquing JKR prose, plot, characterization in a read-along format.

Whether this is something we do on a regularly rotating basis or whenever someone feels inspired to lead, best way for any writer to improve (besides revising) is to read published work. We can shoehorn general writing resources here — between this sub and Tutorials, streamlines the various pinned threads scattered around the forum for more purposeful access.

===================

Common Room is a more meandering quality of discussion. Don't have much to add to Sauce's original, except to redirect Academia requests to Real Life Discussion and recombine Books & Anime since we'd have Bookclub for the more dedicated stuff.

Oh, and the current stage of re-org bloats the Common Room. Eight sub-fora is too many. Let's keep it focused and "family friendly" (at a glance) — suggest moving SnP and Politics to the Shrieking Shack.

===================

Little to say about Library for now, except to approve of Almost Recommended's top placement, if we're to rehabilitate its function.

===================

Lastly, Shrieking Shack, cr:@Selethe. It's the perfect place to put knotty undesirables, at the bottom of the scroll. This section is high-intensity. People who search out threads here are intrinsically interested and committed, and will post regardless of location. We should keep Hall of Shame and put it here.

Ditto with Games, actually. Recurring interest, etc.

Spoiler: Actual Format 2.0

Great Hall

• Announcements
• Tutorials & Useful Links

Room of Requirement

• For Review(Consolidated)
• Work by Author (Consolidated)
  • Mature WbA (Consolidated)
• Story Competitions - broken up into ideation, referencing, submissions and reviews
  • Quarterlies
  • Anthologies
• Bookclub/Writing Resources (collapse from Original Fiction Discussion)

Common Room

• General Discussion (HP)
• Fanfic Discussion
• Other Fandom/Original Discussion
• Real Life Discussion
  • Meetups
  • The Burrow
  • Academia
• Gaming and PC
  • Graphics (dead, could be consolidated somewhere)
  • Programming/comp sci
• Multimedia
  • Books & Anime
  • Movies & TV
  • Music
  • Humor Mill (Dank Memes lul)

Library

• Almost Recommended
• HP Library (Consolidated)
• Other Fandoms (Consolidated, there are 28 subforums for OF. Holy hell.)
• Original Fiction
• Restricted Section

Shrieking Shack

• Politics
• Sick and Perverse
• Hall of Shame

Games

• Little Italy

Support

• Tech Support
• DLP Feedback and Improvement
• Site Related Support

Archive(TBD)

• Billy vs. Snakeman
• Introduction Archives

===================

To sum, I've suggested introducing mechanisms, if I'm honest, will not be effortless to sustain. In fact, they will be effortful. The road may well be long and toilsome. But I have faith that, one day, every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low. The rough places will be plain and the crooked places will be made straight.

And when this happens, and when we allow freedom to ring; when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet; from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day that Arthellion is banned, and DLP is made great again.

 

My name is arthellion and I approve Solfege’s message.

Really like the ideas he espoused there.

Also, I know this is somewhere on the forum, but maybe make actual writing tutorials somewhere more prominent on the forum?

Like..A DLP Guide to Grammar.

A DLP Guide to Show don’t Tell

A DLP Guide Avoiding Cliches

Etc.


Consolidating advice could be a great tool for future writers. Then WBA becomes a place to truly fine tune a person’s writing.

 

I like this idea.

Maybe there could be a seperate section of the forums for resources where members can compile tools, guides, tips, and other things helpful for both readers and writers alike.

 

Something something Halt's writing advice thread. At least I think it's Halt's. Where the fuck is it, anyway? Lots of good stuff in there, including show don't tell IIRC.

edit: there it is -- stuff like that could be linked to directly in a sticky called General Writing Advice and, as was suggested, we'd have WBA directly below.

 

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/threads/writing-advice-and-resource-thread.37586/

Took forever to find, it's like the 30th post down on the Fanfic Discussion section.

 

You wrote a "here's a taste of everything about DLP" guide. We're talking about the specifc topic of writing. Now that WBA is prominently displayed at the top of the homepage, it's worth discussing.

 

My idea was more an , organizational one. Placing Halt’s Guide and other such in a section above WBA.

Also, just being honest, I don’t have confidence to write a good guide along those lines. My expertise tends more towards nonfiction being a history major. I’ve never written a full on fanfic...so I’d simply say the guides should be written by those who know what they are talking about.

That said, more time should be spent commenting in WBA. I agree on that.

 

For rewards...if we do gamify..I’ll offer that if anyone can write a 5 Star story of over 75k words and finish it with a good conclusion...I’ll offer myself up for a one week ban.

 

So thread marks can carry word count?
I know we already have the title per post counts,
Perhaps we can have an accolade or level system linked to word counts under thread marks, to incentivise writing fiction or essay series etc.

Yes there might be shit posting, but that'll be called out quickly and strongly I believe. For the rest, might be a nice immediate gratification for posting some quality content.

Even just a straight level number and leader board may be worthwhile with the word counts filling up an xp bar - so we can be like: Zombie and Taure are tied level 50, but scottpress is close at 48. Shit, I'm level 7, can do more.

Or, requiring more effort and content storming, but item rewards like - Solfege's inventory is huge. He has the elder wand and fluffy and loads others besides.

 

This is a great idea - I'd offer that, potentially, 500 words is a little short to get overly technical writing advice.

 

Aye, I've been doing the 500 a day thing thinking it would feel like a big thing but it feels like very little at all each day, it's rarely a whole scene.

I'd say 2k max, cus that's the length of a short chapter. Or half/less a moderate - big one. It's still quick to read.

 

*salutes Hall of Shame as it passes beyond the veil*

Farewell, my friend. You taught us many a valuable lesson.

 

As @Zombie rightfully lambasted me for, the for review board has been moved into a section separate but above the library. But the other fandom review board is still in the old place.

Is the fandom consolidation still on the table?