Including the rather excessive number of Other Fandom subforums? Because that'd be a pity, I'll admit.

Edit: On only a vaguely related note, I happened to see that there are HP fics in the Review Board that have been sitting in there since 2017. Is that normal? How long are fics actually meant to be left for review?

 

I'm very happy to see this thread, especially the very serious level of work that's being put into the goal. The way I have in the past contributed to DLP best was to write here. I know that people saw mentions of DLP in my stories posted on FFN or profile page and followed them here. Maybe not as many as some of the ones with true cult followings, of course.

That said, as my tastes have changed, I have moved away from DLP. Unfortunately, this community is hard to find elsewhere. The camaraderie and people's willingness to be invested is something that sets us apart. Sadly, that is not everyone's experience.

I will slowly digest the many proposals discussed in this thread and try to offer something. But in the meantime, I can offer what I have in the past, and that is my writing. The community may not care for some of the genres or fandoms that I take part in now, but I suppose that's part of the price of being part of the community: Sometimes you're in step with the group and sometimes you're out of step.

In many ways I'm a product of DLP. My writing definitely is.

 

I like this idea. Like @Joe said, 500 words is a little limited for actual in depth analysis, but somewhere in the range of ~2k word max is reasonable. Essentially, small one-shots down to individual scenes.

We don't get (many) one shots posted to the WBA, which is a big loss, IMO.

 

Thanks for continuing the discussion.

Took your observations especially about WbA into account when thinking about the kind of user-base we want to build up. As you say, generating content is hard. People have to simply get down to it, do the work. Pause. Think. Write. Revise. They have to become habituated. That's why I focused so specifically on the story comps. I think it's just the right activity loop to build an engine on, as people jockey for recognition and improvement. The more we get readers used to giving quality feedback, the more interactions between authors and readers, the easier it gets as critiquing skills improve, and the more I envision an overflow into general WbA.

The longer uninstructed form, and anticipated energy consumption, of general WbA posting is probably a bit intimidating, especially for newer readers, to focus a single aspect at a time on which to crystallize their thoughts. A shorter form is in very fact what I'd like to see the Story Comps subforum provide, via individual follow-up in a general post-comp discussion area. Having "critique-my-scene" play-by-plays, dedicated bite-sized interactions (as we may instruct new readers to practice giving), should train people up to it.

Same goes for established forum members. Critiquing is a skill. Skills atrophy without use, no matter how instinctively we can recognize quality.

===================

Likewise, Writing Resources. If we start having habitual discussions about dedicated aspects of writing and pushing boundaries of writing standards; and it doesn't have to be solely fanfic-oriented — then this eases people into thinking about these issues on-sight.

Writing is itself so complex if you try to break it down, and customized, that I can't see how we would settle on a standard technical guide and be done (beyond the convenience of giving newbs somewhere to start). Many views abound. Many authors have introduced their own angles on how they tackle peculiarities of process. I think there is a great deal worth discussing beyond the scope of Halt's excellent, if meandering, commentary.

I've myself a couple major threads on the burner to start. One overlooked subject tends to be the art of sentence construction, and to reference beyond Strunk & White. I intend (and reserve!) it to be a place where people submit and discuss elegant sentences they've seen or thought up.

Threads like these can be places for identifying and blocking particular techniques, so long as people are encouraged to dig into specific contexts that make them effective. As with Story Comps, they can be mini-practice areas.

===================

Had your user-guide in mind as Exhibit A for a Tutorials subforum, in fact. Looking at it now, you've made it more comprehensive in spirit than I thought; anticipating its limitations to a hand-holding-type manual/instruction set.

What I imagined earlier was a still more comprehensive attempt at referencing signature contributions, beyond links to Potter-dom and a smattering of RL mega-threads. Inclusions aside; my categorical objection is more of the overlapped Venn diagram, where pointing people to iconic threads (like 2A, or even as Halt's writing thread could develop to) doesn't really help them from relitigating old points; and worse, puerile arguments buried in the many dozens of pages few have the patience to wade through.

I'm interested in long-lived threads, not as merely places to corral irredeemable clusterfucks, but as potentially developing quality over time and a variety of contextual narratives. The issue with megathreads, I find, is lack of indexing ability, thereby risking memoryless discussion.

Or maybe I, as much as anyone, need look to develop the potential of forum tools... because:

My god. This is a thing? How have I not learnt about threadmarks, and how do they work — because I've been checking my usual haunts, and while I can very, very occasionally see others' threadmarks, I can't instantiate any of my own.

... enabling threadmarks should be a default for any thread. And readers should be encouraged to pitch in, so that newcomers can be directed to them as learning/bootstrapping material.

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Couldn't agree more. That's why I tried to focus tightly around 1) habituating readers and writers via bite-sized opportunities and 2) creating reference materials and reference discussions to assist and instruct around that central engine of activity. Behavioral change is what we're after. Intrinsic is the need, along with any tools, to provide systemic nudges and pathways for conditioning, of which the specifically overhauled approach to Story Comps is majorly one.

I understand trivia takes time and effort to plan in such a way as to incentivize participation and ensure lurkers see a fair shot of winning [some kind of meaningful prize]. It's one of those things I'd be happy to help look at and work through.

My proposals largely revolved around what we, as community members, can do. Skin-in-the-game, instead of relying on Raven for silver bullets, nice as QoL changes may be. I'll urge that a Writing Resources subforum, visibly posited by Story Comps, is a key part of the positive feedback loop in which, if we altogether agree to invest, should see dividends.

At the end of the day, if people aren't well-situated with the technical aspects of critiquing and the social aspect of following up with each other, they'll find it more convenient to lurk than speak. In some way, whether IRC or here, it's the art of conversation we must resurrect.

===================

Skimmed the subject earlier because I wasn't interested in mythical silver bullets. But I do think counting for quality is essential to the way we use the forum. Let's extend that infrastructure — piggyback on @TheWiseTomato 's suggestion of points for threadmarked posts, with different branches of trophies for 1) contest winners 2) author submissions 3) particularly insightful reviews 4) library recommendations and 5) miscellaneous contributions.

To convey a Paradox-style distinction scheme, mark suitable levels of achievement with style emblems that members can carry around. We should sell the aspiration to join these Big Boys on Campus. Just like our flamingo pals. Fete them once a year.

For this to work, we'd have to develop a threadmarking culture and its own tutorial/alert system. Points can be earned 1:1, with an exception. Since writers have the best sense for what feedback is most useful, and to incentivize reviewing in threads with little activity/guard against perverse incentives from fellow reviewers, a reviewer should have the opportunity to earn more from an author's threadmark (and maybe these points can be at liberty for the writer to give, from a scale of say 1-5).

Edit: and Big Girls.

 

Poetry sections when?

Edit: Poetry has wba but it shouldn't be so hidden imho

 

Yes, yes, I'll post some poetry you nerd.

 

" I'd suggest doing more than a one line shit post in the future. This is for discussion. You're not contributing anything."

Sorry if I misinterpreted you. The main gist of the thread was post more and reorganize the forum to be a bit more fiction generic, with the values of being a hp ff forum at heart, making DLP into a good reads thing but more freeware sharing via fanfiction sites and hosting docs on the forum. I'm sure theres a snappy new app and everything to boot.

The brainstorming solution to make DLP Cool Again I came up with was poetry.

 

The second part is just a drabble vomit thread - > forum. Or maybe thats just a hope of my own.

Thanks

@Zombie posted that shit... Like i said i would.. In the shit post

Feedback appreciated k thnx luv u bye

 

We have WBA for wider sweep critique, although many people also dig in deep to go paragraph by paragraph and find even missing commas. A place to specifically target that kind of feedback--grammar issues, sentence structure, paragraph management--woild also provide value if recipients extrapolate such advice to their other work. I suspect everyonee has had a moment when they wanted to post feedback in WBA but perhaps felt that a more general comment was less valuable than a really in-depth wallpost, but OP posted a huge chapter. Easier to bite into the nitpicky stuff when the finish line is close. At least I know it's happened to me. We have members who write shorter snippets more frequently. They deserve feedback too, not just our big name authors' long-awaited WIPs. That's not a dig at people who write those popular stories, or people who comment on them, of course. Just tossing my 2c in, for what it's worth.

 

A place for WBA but for smaller stuff is something that I would quite enjoy. There's been plenty of times where I've had simple questions about grammar or punctuation or vernacular for a specific part but didn't really know where to ask.

Going off track a bit here but these new tools would be what keep new users from leaving. In my opinion as a newbie, the issue is getting those new users in the first place.

When somebody types "darklordpotter" in Google, the first result is admittedly this Forum. The second however is a group of reddit results, among which are r/hpfanfiction and r/HPMOR, the latter of whom are headed by someone who despises us and the the former has pretty much opposite tastes to the majority on this site. Both links also discuss DLP and there are more than few commentors who don't have a favourable view of us.

If someone mentioned DLP to you, you'd be more inclined to click the second set of links first as Reddit is more well known and you'd think they could give a fair opinion of the website. While both Reddit links have people advocating for DLP, there a few detractors and that would probably be enough to put any new users off.

We could always go into r/hpfanfiction and start converting some new followers. I've been on there a few times and mentioned DLP offhandedly but nothing ultimately detailed.

 

I've never got to read through and reply to the thread, but I would assume that this terrible idea would be shot down. And yet it passed through in the most stupid way possible, as it does nothing to include Almost Recommended (and no, going from yes/no ratio is not a real solution as there is vast difference, between "no, but it's readable" and "no, it's absolute trash". I mean I sort of understand the idea, some people tend to throw 5/5 on everything they like, but I wouldn't call it a solution.