I know. Maybe they didn't know who the other one is.

---------- Post automerged at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 AM ----------

It might have been a case of when Nymphadora Tonks dies, Remus Lupin dies too. They don't have to know who the other one is for that.

---------- Post automerged at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

Anyway, moving on.

Can we make sacrifice die now please?

Lynch Vote: Sarifice

 

I'm just going to assume that Bill Door can't read, since it plainly says that they were both vanilla town... As such, the most likely reason for the 2nd death is via a third party kill. Also, I now believe that Rubicon is most likely derpy town instead of bad scum, mainly based on the fact that he was so obsessed with fontisan, even when it made him a target.

Somebody I do find a bit scummy though, would have to be Riley Poole. Not only does in claim to be a vanilla town in post #111 for no real reason, but in his first post, he jumps on the Sacrifice bandwagon, and instead of giving his own reasons, just says that he agrees with Bill Door. And then he jumps on the Rubicon bandwagon once it looks like it's going somewhere, as such.

Lynch Vote: Riley Poole

 

I'll address that in order.

1) I didn't claim for no reason. In all reality I didn't claim at all. Especially considering people who claim early on usually seem scummy or derpy town, as is the case for Rubicon according to you. I can tell you that if I said anything, I said it with a purpose. If you can't see the purpose than I'll spell it out for you. Non. Vanilla. Townies. Claiming. In. The. First. Day. Would. Be. Bad.

2) I hopped on the bandwagon because I agreed with BillDoor's reasoning. I find it hard to believe that could be a scum tell simply because jumping on a bandwagon is expected in a game like this. If someone brings up a good argument then it's your obligation as a townie to agree and attempt to bring that argument to the forefront and bring about a resolution that is best for town.

3) I am not the only one who hopped on the bandwagon for Rubicon. I still am of the mind that Rubicon may be scum. Especially with the lynch reveal.

Therefore I think we should focus a little more on Rubicon and his defenders.

Mishie all you have done it throw around various accusations, which base themselves on leaps of logic that are irrelevant or inconvenient to anyone but you.

I don't think you're scum Mishie, I think you're overzealous town and I also think that it would be better to focus on people who haven't expressed pro-town sentiments.

 

I'd like for Sacrifice to explain this quote:

Sacrifice, I'm assuming the post where you were supposedly trying to say "incredibly stupid stuff to bait people in" is this:

This does not look like bait and I'm not super inclined to believe you that it was.

However, let's say it is bait, and you thought that Bill Door and Riley Poole fell for it. Then I'd expect you to have attacked them for it immediately. At the very least, I'd expect you to have mentioned your strategy in post 115, your first serious attack on Bill Door, in response to his questions. Instead, you held off until the very end of the day, and it looks like you only brought it up then because you were afraid of being lynched. Why?

---------- Post automerged at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ----------

I think Mishie's point is that you jumped on the wagon without giving your own reasons or saying explicitly what you agree with.

So let me ask you outright: What things did Sacrifice say that made you think he was scum, and why exactly do you think those things were scum tells?

 

His opening comments on the game as well as his "stupidity" as BillDoor called it. I can say honestly that at that point I left for work and came back to the Rubicon/fontisian scrum starting up and that's around when I changed my vote.

---------- Post automerged at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------

As for scum tells, the question he asked wasn't remotely helpful in my opinion and while stimulating conversation, was a poor choice. As for his "stupidity"...well that's in quotations for a reason.

 

:facepalm That's how a townie should act? You sound pretty desperate. It's because I'm spot on isn't it?

This part is the bait.

This creates makes me look incredibly stupid, which is a chance scums will jump at.

Scums love to make use of the following excuses when trying to get a lynchwagon going on:

1) That person is lurking and he must be scum (that's why, fellow townies, don't you dare lurk)
2) That person is being retarded, let's make it look like he is scum.
3) That person posted something with bad phrasing, let's make it look like a scum-slip.

Perhaps this wasn't even a good bait, but Bill Door jumped right into it.

I didn't attack them directly for it because of a good reason.

I DON'T MIND DYING.

In fact, I wanted to see if anyone else will step forward and continue the lynchwagon on me, so that I can say all my scum-tells in one go several hours before I die.

Besides, I admit that the 'trap' I've set up isn't obvious at all. No one will believe me at that point (post #115).
It is necessary that I waited to the end of the day before I draw that card.

Even at this point not many believe me.

All of you, really, take note of what ridiculous reasoning Bill Door used as a starting point to lynch me. He made a huge slip at the start of our heated argument by saying that his reason to vote for me was because of my response, which was WAY after he voted me.

To prove my point that I am not scum and the part where I said I really don't care if I die.

Lynch Vote: Sacrifice

Bill Door, once I die and I flip town, you will be the next to go, scum. That is, if town decides to foolishly put me up for sacrifice.

 

Sorry guys, I have very little time.

Sacrifice's last post looks horrible. Can people please stop voting for themselves? Little advice to everyone: voting for youself does not help you, nor does it help town (unless you're scum ).

It is not a deterrent for others to vote for you ("Oh, he voted for himself! He can't be scum!" - ...please) and if you're town, you should really try to kill someone you think is scum. If you think Bill Door is rotten... why the hell are you lynch-voting yourself instead of him? Why the fuck do you think you role-flipping town (supposedly) is more telling of Bill's role than Bill flipping whatever he is?

Lynch: Sacrifice

Make a case against him instead of playing the victim or whatever it is you're doing.

I'll be back tonight.

 

Oh no, stojil. This isn't a deterrent. I honestly don't mind dying.

 

Hmm wow with Sacrifice and his underlined comments I wonder if he is town and basically has some ability he needs to be killed for. Otherwise it would be a very weird and dumb town move, and just really weird scum move.

Will be back shortly for more posting, sorry have been ridiculously busy with this business thing.

 

Self votes are a complete Catch-22. Trust me, nothing good ever comes from them. If your town lynching basically anyone else is better. Ondeath abilities usually get better as the game goes on. Popping it this early is just.. dammit Sacrifice.

 

Hmmm, maybe it might not be a good idea to try killing myself so quickly.

--
The following extremely long post are my reads on every single player (by using a summary of all their posts).
I personally feel there is a need for this.

Livelist!


Sacrifice:
I'm Town, whether you believe it or not.
--
Bill Door:
I think he is Scum. For the earlier reasons I have stated.
--
Jeopardizer:
Asking people "who do you want to kill" in early-game, high chance of it being a scum slip.

Stojil seemingly caught on to it and called him out for it. Then after his "explanation" which didn't amount to much at all, Stojil rescinded his vote (I will say more about this below). Strange.

Provides a reason why a lynch day one is necessary.

Pointed out that Republic was acting scummy.

Started out kinda scummy at first, then progressively became more +ve town. At this point I am inclined to think he is Scum with an experienced player as a scumbuddy telling him ways to look more townie. I of course, can't be sure.


--
Uncle Stojil:

One of the more experienced player in the game. Calls on Jeopardizer for his suspicious post. After Jeopardizer responded, Stojil called Jeopardizer's response a BIG TOWN TELL, which I simply cannot imagine him doing.
This is him giving some advice on how to act townie part 1.

Furthermore, he continued to comment that the reason was "He seems to be thinking about his own role possibly shining through because of his question, rather than other players slipping about theirs." Are you kidding me? If one is afraid of his own role shining through, shouldn't it be more of a scum trying to hide their tail than being town? It could be info-role trying to avoid detection but this just doesn't make any sense, Stojil.

post #45, Stojil refuses to answer why he does not agree with mishie logic, claiming he has a valid reason..... are you able to answer that right now? Stojil.

Then he proceeded to answer sarcastically to Bill Door's lynch, which I can't see the reason why. The conversation between Jeopardizer and Stojil really does seem scripted.

Answers LochNess's theories with advice on how to act townie part 2.

Calls on Rubicon for his slip?

post #89, says Rubicon's lynch is more informative than fontisian, gives reason why.

post #113 says "Frankly, though, I would be okay with lynching anyone but Jeopardizer and Bill Door, who are my only town-reads."
Well well, aren't we on to something here. First he managed to somewhat establish control over thread, then eventually tells us that Jeopardizer and Bill Door is town. Both of which I am mighty suspicious of.

After that, proceeded to mention player X and player Y are not scumbuddies. Also mentioned something about Bill Door being town AGAIN.

Commented on fontisian's rescind as well as advice on how to act townie part 3.

Oh. Post #142. advice on how to act townie part 4.

Most recent post was his case against me. Well, I will answer that properly now. No one will believe me if I am not townfirmed. So I felt like taking my chances and get townfirmed so that people will actually consider what I say, eh? As well as a second reason which I won't bother explaining.

TOWN, DO NOT just listen to whatever Stojil says just because he is experienced. Him trying to protect Bill Door and Jeopardizer is REALLY strange. I can't say for sure that he is Scum, but I have a feeling it is indeed that way and town is being led by him. Oh, and don't even talk to me about me giving a "NO U" response, I take that as an insult.

--
Kalas:
Calls out on AngelRick's filler-ish posts, as well as asking Stojil about his sarcastic comment.

Continues to attack AngelRick

Disagrees with Republic on Republic's no-lynch day 1 idea.

Says that he believes Rubicon's role claim. Pseudo-defenced me.

Decides that fontisian is a better lynch target. Decides that my argument is getting worse.

In overall, he didn't really post much. I am inclined to believe he is Town.
--

LochNess:

Answers my question about mass-claim seriously (lol).

State that it is bad to assume we have a lot of power roles. Oh well, look at this, three vanilla towns dead.

Further explains why a mass-claim is no good. Decides that she didn't like my first post.

Decides that Bill Door is probably town. Proceeded to list out scenarios regarding Bill Door and Stojil.

Found me more suspicious than Rubicon (by meta-ing :facepalm), lynch votes me so that town can keep track of me.

Thinks Rubicon will be taking an extremely huge risk by claiming MoM, hence decides that he prolly isn't scum.

switched to fontisian when it was required.

Recent post says my move is weird. Oh well

LochNess gives me a Town vibe. She gave pretty good and valid reasons for her points and haven't done anything to look scummy so far.

--

Mishie:

Answered my mass-claim seriously too (lol).

Calls out on Rubicon as Rubicon immediately assumed Jeopardizer to be a town player. As well as pointing out Rubicon seemed to know if there was a third faction. Lynch votes him.

Undecided whether Rubicon is derpy scum or over paranoid town.

Explains why no lynch day 1 is a bad idea.

Recent post says Riley is suspicious because he jumped onto my lynchwagon and then lynch votes Riley.

He posted very little. However, I don't sense a scum vibe from him. I assume him to be Town.

--

Republic21
Suggests a no lynch day 1.
HUGE scum slip. We could go with the reasoning, aw cmon scum can't be that stupid..............
No, just no. This is a scum tell. Furthermore, his edit is just damn suspicious.

Answers Stojil's question on Fontisian and Rubicon. Commented that they both look scummy.

That's about all. Screams SCUM to me.

--

Riley Poole
Lynches me for "reasons stated by Bill Door" :facepalm

Answers AngelRick's questions.

Answers Stojil's question on Rubicon's slip. Decides that Rubicon looks more like flailing scum than flailing townie. Lynch votes him.
Also, claims that he is vanilla :facepalm
I didn't point this out because it isn't +ve town for scums to know that. Since Mishie already did...oh well.

After my post about him possibly sharing a QT with Bill Door, he responded with "in no way do I share a QT with Bill Door". :facepalm
Why do you have to do that?

Latest post answers Mishie's questions. Still thinks that Rubicon could be scum.

Although I found his post regarding his lynch about me suspicious, I now change my mind and write that off as him being derpy. He is Town. Vanilla flavor.

--

Rubicon:

blah blah blah blah huge clusterfuck of scummy behaviours.

Then he claimed to be Minister of Magic. A high-risk claim I must say. If he is scum I really commend his bravery. At this point after re-reading the entire thread, I believe him now to be super derpy Town instead of scum. I was fairly certain he was scum earlier on due to his rather insistent tunneling on fontisian. However, now that I think of it, his scumbuddies would probably have stopped him early on to prevent this from happening. Sacrificing one of their scummate D1 seems like a ridiculous plan.

--

Dead:

Fontisian - Town. Neville Longbottom (DA) -lynched. You morons.
AngelRick - Town. Nymphadora Tonks (OotP) - NK
Wetnurse - Town. Remus Lupin (OotP) - NK

--

Tentative scumlist:

Bill Door
Uncle Stojil
Republic21
Jeopardizer

--

Please feel free to comment on my reads, refute them, agree with them, whatever. Oh, and do note that I said I don't mind dying, and not I want to die. Hmmmmmm, on second thoughts,
Rescind Vote until all of you decide i should die.

 

So your scummates are Kalas and mishie? Interesting.

 

I'm going to quote that exchange with Jeopardizer that people find so suspicious.

Jeopardizer used a town perspective in his answer. There's no denying that point, IMO. As I see it, you can only argue whether it was fake or real, not that it's scummy, like you're saying. Since Jeopardizer is new at mafia, I'm doubting that he would fabricate that answer so well. That's an assumption of course but they add together. This one also, for example, immediately made me doubt he was scum, still considering he's new at this:

It's the fourth post of the game and he's asking how many scum players we think there are, immediately attracting attention to the scum faction. Do you think scum - and new scum at that - would do that? I don't.

You're confusing roles with factions. You'll never see scum caring about role-slipping, especially if they "roleslip" about roles that "protect/trap/inspect/whatev", which is almost every time towny stuff. They only care to look towny instead of scummy. After my question (and vote), Jeopardizer didn't show any sign of worry for having looked like scum by causing others' role-slips, only that he could have given scum hints about himself.

That's a towntell. Do you disagree?

Alright. It turned out to be a pretty useless attempt, anyway.

I am 90% sure that scum has been given fakeclaim-roles by the mod.

That's how this kind of games usually works and I've talked about it with Eido in the past enough to know that's what he would do when running one, most probably: give out safe or sort-of-safe roles for scum to claim. Some times, the mod gives scum 1-2 fakeclaim-roles for 3-4 players, or gives them only the flavour character, or only the power, or gives the same fakeclaim-roles to all the scum factions when there are more than one, or other such things.

This is what I didn't want to say. I actually didn't disagree with mishie. My question was simply meant to make him elaborate to see whether he'd slip on that or not. It was already clear from the earlier discussion that no one else knew (or was willing to say) this, so I set out to find/cause some scumtells on it. I didn't catch anyone hinting at that, unfortunately, and the discussion shifted to other things soon after that, anyway.

So, now that's it's out of the bag, please don't trust roleclaims just because they are gutsy/risky enough to be believable. It's only an assumption on my part, but there's a good chance scum has been given safe roles to fakeclaim.

Come on. They were my first and second posts of the game. Good scum would have built it more properly and bad scum would have played it safer and tried to stay completely clear of each other unless necessary. That's the objective answer. Subjectively: do you really think I would do something like that?

Can I please ask the players with a town read on Bill Door to come forward?

Sacrifice, Bill Door is the towniest town that ever towned of this game. There's one in every game and he is the one of Mini Mafia #1. That doesn't mean he's not scum, but if he is scum, he's playing well, and your bullshit reasons for doubting him suck donkey balls.

Why? Because you're aggroing against the towniest-looking here with bullshit reasons? I doubt your death and eventual (supposed) town-flip would make those actions look better.

So, just to summarize, not only Jeopardizer and I fabricated our exchange, but we also staged Bill Door's following post calling us out on it!

You are hilarious. And probably town, too. My vote was mostly meant to make a point and make you try a (better) case against Bill Door or whoever you thought was scum, instead of self-lynching. It's probably going to change soon, since I'd prefer going after Rubicon, but first I need to eat.

 

Could you explain your town read on Bill Door in more detail, Stojil? I don't think Sacrifice has a very good case, but I don't see the obv-town vibe you're talking about either.

Also: Has anyone in this game played with Stojil before when he was scum?

 

I've played two games with Stojil as scum. In Star Wars 3 I was in a scumteam with him, but he had to be replaced after like a day, and in WitchHunt 2 he got hit by a priest check on night 1, so there's not much to get any sort of meta read on.

 

He's active and pushing for activity. Asks mostly good questions and pressures people. He's paranoid and uncertain. He mostly makes sense and good points. He agreed with Riley when he said the cop should check the most active/leaders (although there can be serious WINE here). He wasn't overly defensive when Sacrifice NO U'd him.

 

Okay, first: Can someone explain what +ev, -ev etc... mean? I can only guess the general sense.

Second: I just realised that if the scum team has 4 members we are fucked. It means we are at 4scums/6towns, and it means that if we mislynch (even only 1 time) we lose (without counting on powers shenanigans and luck). So I hope we have only 3 scums to lynch.

Third: AngelRick was obviously killed because his big scum-slip wasn't so much of a scum-slip after fontisian was revealed to be vanilla-town.

Fourth: Rubicon and Sacrifice look like Town to me.

Fifth: I'm still not satisfied with Republic21 and I'm pretty sure nobody is.

Vote Lynch : Republic21

If something scummy happens I'll probably change my vote, but as it is he is the only player who doesn't give me ANY town vibe.

 

Positive and negative.

So something that is +ev Town is helpful for town. And something that is -ev town is bad for town.

 

second²²²²: And I don't really want to think about a possible third party.

---------- Post automerged at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

Guessed that, it was more to ask what 'ev' stand for. But thanks anyway.

---------- Post automerged at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

stands* (10 char)

 

Jeopardizer
Riley
Republic
Kalas
Lochness
Rubicon

Make a case against someone and vote for them.

Give us the reasoning even though (at least part of) it is obvious.