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Mini Mafia #6

Discussion in 'Little Italy' started by Citrus, Dec 12, 2015.

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  1. dLGN

    dLGN Muggle

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    You! Jan obviously hadn't done anything alignment indicative in the typical sense that the game at large should all pick up on. But I enjoy reading openings (like benneh's, that sob) and thought you may have figured that was what I was doing. I wanted to see if you would call me out for it, though, after we talked about how the shipitup / kawamii meta situation was so disastrous last night.

    Funnily enough you basically brought that all up, already.

    A+

    I will say that your first post or two seemed a little off to me, too, which made me fell better about Jan. However, since, you have reacted several times in ways I have seen you do as town, so I actually have swung you over to pretty solid town.

    I'll detail what pinged me about your opening and why I now believe you are very likely town in my next post.

    ---------- Post automerged at 01:56 ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 ----------

     
  2. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    Hm, dLGN.

    Something bugs me about that read. I think it's something to do with the fact that it's so meta based and yet also so overly explain-y. Like. You're not really going to convince anyone if they don't share that specific meta - so who are you trying to show off for? Delph herself, perhaps?

    By "over-explain-y" I mean you really heaped example upon example of the same thing. Yet, things like "pinging out new players" - surely that would be trivial to fake as scum? And yet you include it, giving your argument a "more than the sum of its parts" flavor while simultaneously placing less weight on each individual part. Which is a clever trick, really. But it does kind of feel like a trick.

    That last thought may have gotten away from me a bit, but hopefully you get the idea.
     
  3. dLGN

    dLGN Muggle

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    Although I posted the alignment read without reasoning, out of curiosity, do you think I didn't have that reasoning at the time?

    And in the case that you think I did, you're saying you could see me do that as mafia?

    ---------- Post automerged at 02:16 ---------- Previous post was at 02:09 ----------

    Perhaps it's just clever reading, sans trickery?

    She can judge for herself if she thinks / knows that those are lines she's used as town? I've only seen her mafia play once and her mic was broken so she didn't actually end up even saying anything lmao. But so far she's saying things using the same words / phrases and around the same (relative) time in a game that I've seen her do several times as town. You obviously don't have to read her similarly for it, but that's how I see it.

    And for you and others in this game I completely expect you to use meta from past forum games or otherwise that will similarly mean less to me as my meta reading does to you. That's fair, but I'll still share what I'm thinking.
     
  4. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    I'm not opposed to meta reads in general. Although they do feel like a crutch sometimes. I was more zeroing in on the way you went about it. Kinda think both you and Delph are town, on balance? But, it's just one of those things. Townreads have to be carefully monitored, especially if you're going to lean on them to PoE.

    Tangentially, I actually have watched a DM game where Delph played. IIRC she was mafia and spent the whole 4 minutes looking depressed and saying "man I have, like, no idea who the mafia are." At which point someone declared her "so towny the earth was going to split open" or words to that effect and she promptly got, like, 2 votes. Which was hilarious when she ended up being mafia after all!

    All that's to say, I do have at least some background to judge your meta case.
     
  5. dLGN

    dLGN Muggle

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    So, so far I like snowvon a lot, like delphine a lot, and like still like jan, though if I were wrong on one of those I think it would be Jan?

    Haven't decided what I think about Newcomb's responses to snowvon, but I think that's a useful interaction to analyze.

    ---------- Post automerged at 02:33 ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 ----------

    Yeah Newcomb I know you were getting more at how I went about giving the read than the conclusion but idk, details stick out to me. I could just say she's phrasing things similarly to her town game, but think it could help her, at least, evaluate that read if I specify exactly what.

    ---------- Post automerged at 02:36 ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 ----------

    Also, Rubicon, do you have many games played with fonti? "So that's a thing" is a phrase I've picked up from her and she says it often. Funny seeing you use it, too.

    Also curious why you capitalized Thing? Is that like Newcomb's "Moment of Brilliance"?
     
  6. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    What do you think about Proph? Alternatively / additionally, what do you think about the current vote count?
     
  7. dLGN

    dLGN Muggle

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    I dislike and tend not to read into early votes like these. They're trolly, easily wifom'd away, and overall near meaningless, to me. I've never bothered to make a point and review games after they're over to see if certain scum vote town or partners early like that. Maybe there are people who do certain things disproportionately but I'd never be able to put too much confidence into a read that is based around something like a first post vote.

    The major things that have stuck out to me so far I've commented on. No strong feelings about Proph. I haven't started taking notes so if it didn't smack me in the face I've largely forgotten it already and would have to reread / iso to answer you. I'm willing to, if you want, but that's a bit unnatural for me to attempt.
     
  8. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    No need. I was more interested in getting an insight into your thought process, anyway.
     
  9. dLGN

    dLGN Muggle

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    idk why you'd emphasize your there. Obviously you were asking for my thoughts and I didn't ask for yours. Kinda weird tone? w/e.

    But yeah, I've had people get a bit frustrated when I can't really share any thoughts at their request. I don't withhold many thoughts, though, so if I haven't said it I probably just don't have much.
     
  10. Delphine

    Delphine First Year

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    Newcomb - Oh my god I prefer not to imagine the people watching stream! .__. I thought I was going to throw up the entire day that that formal happened and it was just awful. I was so embarrassed that I didn't get lynched for that that I left for like two weeks. :/

    dLGN - My reaction to you calling Jan town was that I was surprised since you don't think you read him well normally, and to let you keep doing your thing while taking it into consideration til you wanted to expand on it. (When you don't explain reads, I'm aware that it's tactical, so.) The part you quoted and said "A+" to is relevant to my experience in the past year playing mafia in places you've seen me and places you haven't, so the turbo game wasn't particularly what I was thinking of, if that helps. (In fact I'm a little salty about feeling like I had basically no way to win/positively contribute to that, so I kinda have blocked it out :b)

    You not liking my first couple of posts make sense to me. You're wrong if you thought I thought I would get townread for my first two posts, though, despite Pozzai telling me that it sounded town in context in that game. Him reminding me of it last night probably influenced my phrasing though? I am starting to understand why y'all like your extended RVS even though it's not what I'm used to, but I just wasn't into it this game. Usually I either get a weak scumread or two or just am more amused, idk.

    I laughed really hard at your post-automerge stuff. You're not the first to tell me that I speak how I write. To be more transparent, the point of my Storm question was more that I think he is ignoring the questions about his experience level on purpose, so I was trying to find a question that would give as close to an answer to that as he felt comfortable. I lean town on him despite the mysterious persona he's going for.

    If you're scum this game I'm still gonna destroy you soon, so please keep townsiding. http://www.gomotes.com/emoticon/skype/skype15.gif
     
  11. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    I emphasized the "your" because I meant that I cared more about getting an insight into the way you're approaching the game than if you had any actual thoughts on Proph or not.

    And, man, this is a weird feeling. Koalas hasn't posted at all, KaiDASH has posted exactly once, and I'm kind of thinking if we just lynch our way through Koalas / Rubicon / Jan / Proph / KaiDASH we probably just win?

    And yes, this is definitely the post I'll probably want to forget I ever wrote after the game's over when it turns out I got rolled by like fonti/dLGN/[Delphine or Snowvon].
     
  12. Delphine

    Delphine First Year

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    As in like, a positive way, if that wasn't clear.

    ---------- Post automerged at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 AM ----------

    Particularly the last part hahah
     
  13. Newcomb

    Newcomb Minister of Magic

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    Heh, the only reason I remember that particular game is because that series of events was just so goddamn hilarious. I usually watch DM maybe, oh, once a week? It's good fun. Might even try to play one of these days!

    ---------- Post automerged at 12:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------

    Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu -

    Newcomb 32
    The Storm 14
    dLGN 11
    Snowvon 9
    Prophylaxis 9
    fontisian 9
    Delphine 8
    Rubicon 7
    LockNess 6
    Jan 6
    KaiDASH 1

    Oh my god am I doing it again? Mistaking people agreeing with me / activity for towniness?

    It is way too early in the game for this kind of paranoia to set in.

    I... think I'll just shut up for a while, now.

    Laterz.
     
  14. Story Content: Votecount 1.1
    Citrus

    Citrus First Year

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    Votecount 1.1

    Official Votecount 1.1
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Prophylaxis (3): Snowvon (#12), Delphine (#18), Fontisian (#51)
    Snowvon (1): The Storm (#3)
    dLGN (1): Jan (#19)
    Jan (1): Prophylaxis (#65)
    Rubicon (1): LochNess (#85)

    With 12 alive, it takes 7 to soft-lynch. If 9 votes are placed on a single player, day will immediately end with a hard majority.

    Day One ends in 85 hours: Day One End

    Mod-notes:

    Game addendum #1: The mafia team has day-chat. This will be added to the OP.
    Rules addendum #1: There is a minimum activity requirement for the game-thread, roughly at least 10 posts per gameDay OR whatever I think is reasonable. This will be added to the OP.
     
  15. dLGN

    dLGN Muggle

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    Interesting re: storm.

    Had to look up RVS but yeah, I get almost nothing from the votes, per se, but sometimes can read what seems more forced and what seems more natural? Probably from getting my start on EM where there are a lot of trash lines and you try to notice subtle genuine towny gems or kind of robotic interjections?

    and lmao (sun) (sun)

    ---------- Post automerged at 03:52 ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 ----------

    yeah... yeah, it is... lol.
     
  16. KaiDASH

    KaiDASH Auror DLP Supporter

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    When you post images, can you make them legitimately amusing instead of phoning it in, thanks!

    I had the same reaction - it's a lot of words to explain what's an extremely soft read.

    I.. ? you know this isn't how things go. Ok great.

    That said, Rubicon is one of my favourites currently, so

    vote: rubicon
     
  17. Jan

    Jan Fourth Year

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    Ok so .. i wanted to sleep and couldnt .. and now got back up again because something was bugging me. Newcomb .. will talk about it in a second, first the other reads, because it kinda leads into it.

    Delphine - I do not remember her having a lot of problems with the fluff when we were lovers, that is why i was concerned before, but then she reacted like this :
    This reaction reads very town. I was lovers with her a little while ago, and she comes across as completly unafraid and carefree here.
    While I do not know her scumplay, her reactions back then were quite emotional, which brings me to believe that she would be way more self-conscious about being scumread/pushed on as actual scum, and her reaction is everything but that.

    The Storm - if this is his first game, then he comes across as towny. I thought that he read curious and inquisitive at first, then i read his fast iso and realized he hasn't even given a read of his own.
    I liked his reaction to newcombs gif-play, and the answer of not having any reads. New scum players feel more like they have to make up reads when poked early on (could be coached but the reply was within 20 minutes, which reduces the chances).

    dLGN - I actually like his approach to/conversation with Delphine a lot. It reads genuine, and afterwards i felt like cuddling both of them.
    I have not seen any forum games of him, which leaves me a bit more unsure than the other two people, but reading it left me feeling good about him.


    All of those reads are of a easier caliber, and most people share them for one reason or another (i think/assume), one of them being fonti, as stated in this post :
    While this sounds towny, I respect her too much to call her town, just for sharing the easy reads in a game. I have seen her play scum on forum, and it is 10 times more terrifying than on video (you're welcome).

    I gave her a single townread in her last scumgame on dlp (witchhunt), because she townread two obvious towns early on and stopped them from fighting. While those two (Snowvon + Moridin I think) were obvious town, and should have been for everyone, she was the person being vocal about it and stopping a catfight, without any agenda.
    Long story short: fonti reading "easy reads" as town, does not make her town, it is a good start, but that's about it.

    In comes Newcomb who earlier said :
    He has played with fonti before, as scum, and seen her play scum, but he has no problem calling her town twice by now and is not the least bit scared about that read.
    I see a big disconnect between someone trying to establish a towncircle that he feels strong about and works from there through his PoE and Newcomb reading Fonti town for very little. Not sure if and why he has no respect for her play, maybe he knows more or reads her better than I do, but this makes me feel uneasy about Newcomb.
    It feels like either TMI (he reads her town because he knows she is town) or slowly guiding a partner in his towncircle, regardless I do not like it.
    But maybe Newcomb wants to enlighten us all and tell us why Fontisian is town here.

    With that being said :
    Vote: Newcomb

    Lets see if i can finally sleep now.
     
  18. LochNess

    LochNess Third Year DLP Supporter

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    This line I really don't like. You think we will win if we vote for the people who have barely posted in the first 18 or so hours of a 96 hour day because they are probably mafia then?

    I also think your post underestimates the mafia. Mafia may sometimes have lower post counts because they find it harder to post and such, but I don't think their attitude would be to completely not show up at all. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to people who haven't really posted yet.

    I just don't see a town person saying, oh let's take the easy road and vote these people off an we won!!!

    ---------- Post automerged at 09:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

    Just want to say I didn't see Jan's post above me, so going to read that one now and hopefully I didn't just repeat him.

    ---------- Post automerged at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 AM ----------

    Rescind Vote, Vote: Newcomb
     
  19. Vaimes

    Vaimes Fifth Year

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    I think that's something only scum would be self-conscious of? Which is why I said it. Also I thought it was funny.

    My thoughts on the Prophylaxis wagon as it stands are [town, ???, town, townlean]. Kinda sad nobody had the guts to five it.

    ---

    My townreads are Storm, Jan, Delphine, dLGN, and maybe fontisian and Newcomb? fontisian is fontisian, and I was okay with Newcomb until he said that Thing that didn't make sense to me. I'm still making up my mind if I'm being dumb about it or not.
     
  20. dLGN

    dLGN Muggle

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    <3 We did it reddit! Two of your previously slight scumleans are obvious town by page 2! XD

    Few questions:

    I also townread that reaction but I'm more curious about what you're saying about it.

    1. If it's consistent with her townplay why not leave it at that? Instead you seem to read it against your speculation of what her scumplay would be like and decide (or explain it) more based on the contrast to that than the similarity to something you are familiar with (her townplay).

    2. You read that reaction as emotional? idk if that's how I would characterize it, but, I just wanted to be sure that's what you're saying when you bring up her 'quite emotional' reactions from that previous game.

    Hey, I know what's going on here... but would you really make a similar play while simultaneously explaining how someone else made it? lmao

    I am bad at reading you but I keep trying and want to believe I got you right so far but I'm not going to assume this is easy like Newcomb.

    I strongly, strongly agree with your point about him and fonti so that makes me feel more comfortable, despite the above.

    ---------- Post automerged at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

    When I was looking at the votes before going to bed I realized I was townreading voters as well and so I am going to make a point of analyzing Prophlaxis and my townreads' points wrt him next. Don't worry, the day is still young.

    Okay, so a capitalized Thing is definitely a thing from somewhere.

    ---------- Post automerged at 14:44 ---------- Previous post was at 14:37 ----------

    I didn't like that line either, but specifically because it's coupled with him saying suggesting he's paranoid about it being that easy one line later. I know someone who uses that exact same phrasing ("and then we probably just win" - slip) when giving a d1 autocircle / lynch order, but it's almost always done from a very calm/analytical state. You have to be pretty damn confident to give a POE to win so early, and that is inconsistent with being paranoid and unsure about it.

    Newcomb's emotional range and behaviour need not be the same as another player's, but, I'm leaning on these being more fabricated than genuine thoughts.
     
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