Like I said, I can just shoot someone tonight if you want.

 

Well, using Miner's vig shot doesn't actually increase the number of kills we get to make. Its still 4, barring another bounced kill.

If we want to use it, we can't lynch Miner and whoever we point him at toNight.

And if we guess wrong, we'll end up at Final 4 instead of 3.

Its probably worth it regardless of what we think of Miner's alignment because of the possibility of a bounced kill? Like sure, if only 1 person dies tonight, we can't confirm Miner's role. But that makes tonight's kill on the target of town's choice instead of the target of scum's choice.

If there's 2 kills, does that confirm Miner to be town? Or is it reasonable for the scumteam's power role to be an extra kill?

Either way, anybody voting for Kai should also be saying who they want Miner to shoot.

---------- Post automerged at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 ----------

Hi @miner1121 , your claim doesn't excuse you from playing the game.

Who do YOU think is scum?

If somebody has an ulterior motive for pushing you, who is it?

Do you agree with people's PoE lists?

Basically, your defense so far is "I'm too bad at the game to actually play". Yeah, no. You signed up and that doesn't fly. Build a case on somebody.

---------- Post automerged at 12:55 ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 ----------

Blah, there's 3 1s. miner11121

 

In a twelve player game I think it's pretty doubtful? Like, there's arguments /for/ it but I don't think they match what I'd expect from eido

And it would be pretty much a "fuck you for modgaming" type setup move and iirc he's expressed frustration with those sorts of things in the past

---------- Post automerged at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------

Also also: if scum had a bonus kill I'd expect them to fire it as early as possible for it to be excusable

 

Ok, so actually with the way that Sloth lumped Miner and demon together, I think I want miner to shoot demon? I guess we can deal with miner/cobalt tomorrow after we get info from night actions and lynch Kai today.

Day3 Lynch KaiDASH

---------- Post automerged at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Here's Sloth's posts on demon

Spoiler

---------- Post automerged at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------

To clarify, last night when I read through those posts, I was leaning towards miner being the more likely scumbuddy of the two.

I still think that's the case.

But miner has become self-resolving in a way that demon is not so . . .

---------- Post automerged at 14:44 ---------- Previous post was at 13:14 ----------

Actually, that's mechanically wrong.

I want miner to shoot Kai, and we should lynch demon today.

Day3 Lynch demonturtle

---------- Post automerged at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

I would like demonturtle and/or miner to tell me why that's the case. I think that's more informative than me pointing it out.

 

Lynch kai, do trackery thing, miner should self kill or shoot demon if it's not possible.

I'd prefer he shoot cobalt personally but that's well, yeah.

 

Uhm, have you been reading? I've built two cases since being called upon to do so on d1. I fos'ed Sloth and Citrus. Sloth because OMGUS and also because he failed to defend himself when I did wind up fos'ing him (he had IRL issues, as we know now), and Citrus because of his weird fp claim.

Right now, since you're filling in for Citrus, I'm therefore fos'ing you.

A secondary case could be built for Kai, since he's pretty much not cared about the game since the start (and if you come up with some bullshit about how I haven't cared then you're wrong), so either he's scum and thinks that he just can't win after the whole Snowvon and Sloth lynch, or he's an incredibly useless town.

Yes, I think I'm pretty bad at Mafia from what I've seen here. The people who play here seem to be able to build cases from almost scratch, and read a lot into responses that I've never seen before in either an online or real-life game. That isn't a defense. That's a statement of fact. If you think I'm scummy from my gameplay, then there's nothing I can do about it. If you want to lynch me, go ahead, but know that you're losing a free shot as well as a town member.

Also, Acionyx Why the fuck would I self-kill?

As for people's suspicions about how I was second on the Sloth bw, and then ditched it, my response to that is that Sloth's failure to defend himself made it so that I didn't want the day to hammer, so I left the bw. I didn't realize that everyone would immediately leave the bw afterwards (I went to sleep), and then when I woke up the next morning everyone had switched to Snowvon. Which I was completely fine with, but I pointed out that I never wanted the Sloth bw to disappear and voted Sloth before voting Snow because he pretty much claimed mafia.

Finally, this game won't go to Final Four if town doesn't want it to. No lynching by the deadline one day would bring numbers back.

I likely won't be very active for the next five days. I'll be busier than usual, and if Eido thinks that my inactivity seriously affects gameplay, then he's welcome to prod me and if that doesn't work then replace me. I'd like to see this game out though.

 

Because that leaves scum-miner zero chance to try and claim shenanigans happened with one kill in the night

 

Like what? I hit a vest? I was roleblocked?

 

Like "Oh huh scum must have no killed to frame me and I don't have anymore shots to prove myself :[" or "maybe they wined themselves and shot the doc target?"

 

I can be mechanically confirmed by Fonti this phase you are not pointing a claimed vig at me LOL

---------- Post automerged at 04:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

I agree with Lynch Kai, shoot Demon.

Unvote

Lynch: Kai

---------- Post automerged at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

Anyway, I was rear ended in a car accident today and spent a lot of time on the phone with my liability adjuster. So I'm kind of pooped from anything involving my direct concentration for an extended period of time. Will return when I'm less upset at the world in general.

 

How about I shoot a scum suspect tonight and tomorrow if I'm still alive and there was only one death and it was town then you can just lynch me?

 

So, not being able to scumhunt as newb!town is normal.

What's strange aboutique your cases is how they're not even acknowledging the points that other people are making about your targets, even after you've admitted your own reasons are bad.

You seem to think everybody here is really good at mafia. Well, why aren't you using their cases as a stepping board?

Please comment on whether you agree or disagree with other poster's reasoning about myself and Kai.

Please express an opinion on Cobalt and demonturtle. It doesn't have to be original, but I have no idea what you think about them. That's bad for the game state we're in.

 

Like I said. Read please.

I already agreed with Newcomb's opinion about Kai that he's a zero effort scum. Literally in my last post. I'm not going to waste my time anymore if you don't make that connection.

I don't see much suspicion from other people on you. Maybe I missed something, in which case that's my bad, but mostly the suspicion on you stemmed from Citrus. I'll stick by my original suspicions thanks.

Cobalt claimed doc. No one cced. Someone was saved last night, because no killing as mafia at this point makes no sense, eventually they're going to be found and lynched (if the one mafia left idea is correct). Therefore, I'm inclined to believe him, at least until someone ccs, or it's proven that he isn't the doc.

I don't have a read on demon one way or another. If there's a majority of people telling me to shoot him I'll shoot him. But I don't know his alignment.

I also find it amusing that I was cleared by almost everyone at the start of d3 and now it's been reversed because I was wondering about massclaim.

 

Vote Demonturtle

I would prefer a lynch on demonturtle. Kai is still town.

---------- Post automerged at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------

Acio, what happens if you target a scum?

 

Also I don't know why Prophylaxis seems to be happy jumping on whatever bandwagon is convenient for him. Remember my statement about Jason and noobclaiming (and here I'll also refer back to Fonti's statement earlier: 1) You clearly said Epic mafia was pretty bad. Go look at #97. 2) If you feel that I'm noobclaiming, then explain to me how I appear that way.)? It still stands.

---------- Post automerged at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------

If we lynch demon, who am I shooting?

 

There is ~25 hours left in the day.

Timer is in day start post.

 

I guess you can shoot Kai. Or Citrus. :/

 

We'd get a chat together assuming I wasn't blocked

I've described it in its entirety already if you have complaints wrt it being called masonizer or neighborthing address them to eido

 

Okay, let's just all take a deep breath here.

Let's break this down.

We've killed two scum in a 12 person setup. The overwhelming odds are that there is one scum left.

Possible wrenches include two teams of two scum, or four scum, or third party. All of those are pretty unlikely.

Two teams would border on bastard modding without the town being aware of it (plus there was nothing in either scum PM that mentioned it), plus there was only 1 death N1 and 0 deaths N2.

Four scum would mean we started at 8/4 which is like. Preeeeeety thin margin for error. Mislynch once and you're at 6/4 in MYLO.

Third party would be, again, pretty weird with 12 people. And actually functionally the exact same thing as having 1 scum alive or one SK alive or something. So no need to worry about that.

So, going on the assumption that there's one scum alive and they were partnered with Snowvon and Sloth, let's go down the list and look at what would have needed to happen for each player to be scum:

Acionyx
Citrus/Mal
Cobalt
Demonturtle
Fontisian
Jason/Proph
Kai
Miner

Acionyx

For Acio to be scum, he'd have to have buddied/pocketed me harder than anyone has been buddied/pocketed before. He'd also have had to snap-push against Sloth when I wanted to go for it D1, and he'd also have to have distanced really really really well with Sloth - Sloth scumreading Acio did /not/ feel like w/w bus at all.

Then there's the fact that Acio's scum meta (so I understand) is kinda on the Von/Sotek level of "Total Lack of Towny Energy As Mafia."

Acio's showed a pretty incredible drive (if mafia) to keep trying to solve the game when he's been under basically 0 pressure since mid D1. This even extends to trying AT NIGHT - like, we were bouncing ideas back and forth with each other on N2 in our shared QT when the game wasn't even going on, and it wasn't like I was poking him, he was doing it independently.

There's also the QT we share - Acio claimed this as "Masonizer" - which I kinda thought implied some kind of alignment confirmation. But he's been steadfast when I asked him about it in saying yes, he's called a Masonizer but the role itself is nothing more or less than 1 shot "create a QT with person X."

This is Very Weird, but it's weird in a way that's just so unlikely to come from scum. Because why would Acio get that wrong as scum? Like. I can't really wrap my head around it. I think the most simple explanation is that Neighborizer/Masonizer are not strict definitions and can have overlapping meanings.

Citrus/Mal

For this slot to be scum, then Citrus's high activity but low gamesolving / engagement kinda make sense. At a macro level, he wasn't as excited as he should have been about the game going so well given that he shared consensus threadreads (minus himself.) For this to be the world, though, you have to believe Sloth kinda hard-pressed / aggroed a partner with pointed questions (instead of softballing like he did with Von.) It's... certainly possible that Sloth treated his two buddies in different ways.

Ehh now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure anything really doesn't make sense about Citrus being mafia.

You also have to believe that Mal is scum, though. Mal is a high-effort player, but going through the game to generate his own VCA and then faking the frustration with it not being helpful would be a pretty slick scum move. Plus, the way Mal has thrown himself into the game feels holistically town. Although... hm.

I think the biggest thing here might honestly be fonti's track?

Like, for Citrus to be scum, with two Goons flipped you have to believe A) town has 4 PR and scum have none, B) Citrus had a passive role or his role has X shots and he didn't fire N1, or C) Citrus is exactly a Scum Ninja. A and C don't seem likely at all. B is... I could see it? But what role would even work there. Like - scum have a 2-shot what? Roleblocker? I suppose I could see him holding that N1 since there were no claims, but limited shot roleblocker seems a little weak. idk. Again, for the Xth time, hate hate hate setupgaming.

Cobalt

For Cobalt to be scum, you have to believe he was pretty incredibly carefree about his team getting rolled D1. You also have to believe he claimed Doc and presumably No Killed N2 in order to make this plausible, and then claimed VT for <reasons> only to unclaim it and claim Doc.

You also have to believe that as the last mafia - meaning the mafia that has to survive like 4 rounds of lynches in order to win - he fakeclaimed a role AFTER there was a claimed town Tracker which could be confirmed via track. The only out he'd realistically have would be to shoot fonti tonight, then go "oh no I was roleblocked!" tomorrow. It's hard to imagine that + him never getting another "save" would result in him living another Day, never mind surviving to F3.

Demonturtle

For Demon to be scum, you have to believe that she and Snowvon decided to hard bus Sloth D1 (3rd and 4th votes on the wagon), and you also have to believe she decided to claim VT out of the fucking clear blue sky either D1 or D2, I forget. You also have to believe her posts aren't Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf, they're No, Wait, Actually Just A Wolf.

You also have to believe that the way Sloth poked at him was poking at a buddy.

Fontisian

For fonti to be scum you have to believe she hardbussed her two partners including an extremely elaborate D2 fake cop -> bad reaction bus for <reasons>, then claimed a weak info role that she'd have no reason to think doesn't already absolutely exist in a 12 person Eido setup, then claim that role and then even if not getting CCd or soft CCd by another info role expect to live in F3 even though she was a PR who didn't die in the night and she has a meta of doing goofy shit as scum. And yeah that sentence was just as ridiculous to type as it was to read.

Jason/Proph

For Jason to be scum you have to believe that a complete newb rolled scum and got hard townread by a bunch of experienced people. You also have to believe that his partner Sloth wasn't just getting ahead of obvtown reads by calling him a "shining bastion of town light" or something and that was actually just hardclearing a partner, then Von also called them obvtown. Other than those "obv newbtown" first dozen posts of energy though, it's like. Doing Things-wise, it's actually not great. Proph has subbed into a lot of games I've been in (as town), and his behavior has been pretty rigid mechanically in all of those games - catchup post, analysis, etc. RL is RL, but it's definitely a different look from Proph.

Kai

For Kai to be scum you have to believe that he's either strictly the Scum Ninja or that he No-Killed last night for the wine.

Miner

For Miner to be scum, you have to believe that scum have an extra killing role which they sat on until they were down to the last person. You also have to believe that the Snowvon/Sloth-->Miner interactions were distancing.

_____

Anyone want to dispute any of those, or add to them?

I think going over it like that I've talked myself into a PoE of 4, but I want to hear others address / pick these apart first.

 

Mentioned it a couple of times but these are literally the first two posts of day two

For miner to realistically be scum sloth would be distancing directly out of the gate and probably expecting to die that day. It's not impossible but I find it unlikely when paired with the swipes he and von took at miner day one

There's a fuckton of tone responses that don't feel scum either. Off the top of my head the one where I mentioned that his lack of attention would be startling for scum and he /apologized/ for it instead of just riding with it.