lol I'm STILL working on it but I don't think I can anymore. Will post soon

 

No one here, eh?

Well. I'm not rereading right now.

Vote Quid

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Oh hi!

You wanna bounce anything off me?
I'm around and probably need a jumping off point anyway.

 

Most of Day 1 Thoughts:


Hi! Re-read from beginning keeping in mind that Jan and owner are town. Sorry that I’m posting these long things that probably nobody wants to read (and is badly formatted).Also, I largely gave up around the last couple pages, post will get progressively worse with less explanation and more chronological disorganization (my notes are all over the place and I know I’m being shitty but I don’t want to spend the hours it will take double checking and reorganizing). Sorry, please just ask if you have questions/ my things are wrong.

I’ll redo some with Day 2..some other time. +There may be some repeat thoughts.


I may be able to be around more in real time since the first part of orientation is over and we have a day or two before the second part starts.

Rubicon- I’m having mixed feelings about him.
Rubicon why did you think Jan’s “If you wanted to actually comprehend my read, then you might have asked, but instead you decided to fling some mud” was gross?

When re-reading he still seems towny in some pages

#76
he semi-defends owner when jan thinks her play style is too different

His #252 “Minor doesn't seem to care about two votes on him. Maybe we should try three” rings a little scummy because he’s been vote-jumping around a lot. Not sure yet if I’d call that aggressive town instead of opportunistic sum?

Personally started thinking of Rubicon as scummier after my reads post.
His reaction #324, read tonally not genuine, like nothing actually changed in his mind regarding me or anyone else, and that he was just saying things/asking qs for the sake of it rather than because he had something in mind or he because felt/thought something.

Also, the Zenzao compromise lynch rang scummy initially, but I guess he was just trying to pressure Zenzao.
But then, in #335, he says “I'm sure Zenzao intends to post some real content by end of day. It would be strange not to” so why mention the compromise lynch thing?

At the same time, his pushing and v specific/aggressive questions to certain people comes off towny.

I felt better about his tonal response to me in #432 when he disagrees with Miner on what makes me towny. Liked his explanation on what he finds scummy about Vaimes’ (slight) townread on him. But then, his initial response to me makes me feel strange because it also kind of makes me think that he started reading me a lot townier after other people already did and he realized that I would be probably townread most game.

Also I feel like I’m always making excuses about my IRL commitments in regards to inactivity in almost every post, so idk how I feel about Rubicon continually commenting on that. Idk if that’s his IRL”can you post more” reaction (not offended or anything, it IS my fault) or if it is a scummy point-out thing to either discredit me a little or to try and seem towny. + I did just say my thoughts were incoming in the very post he responded to asking me to say more. I don’t know if I believe that Rubicon hasn’t been reading what I’ve been saying.

His latest “I still think you’re town although you should say more blah blah” almost feels…idk, pockety in a advice-y sounding way?

Actually, now that I’m thinking so much about it, (#837) this post actually pings me as p scummy. :/


Vaimes: Pushes Owner/Jan (as a scum pair? don’t remember what I meant by this note, but I guess I was saying that that looks bad with the reveal) but towny for saying he didn’t follow Jan scum reading Owner for being excited.

defends Rubicon #248 (or…w/w possibility?! lol )
I agree with his “Let's whack Miner with a stick and see what kind of candy tumbles out.

He hasn't made a single post with content thus far and is pretty much actively lurking. His vote on fluff is suuuuper safe, even without taking into account That Which Did Not Hapen.”

#288
I could see fonti/Miner I guess.
(I’m guessing this is something Vaimes brought up or something)

Also defends Owner from Quiddity’s #173 read (#179)

Zenzao- Confusing

His “test” by saying he was RVSing made no sense to me. If it’s only 24 hours into the game and someone is supposedly RVSing in a forum where that’s just a pretty common thing, what kind of response could he have possibly gotten from me? I can’t seem to think of anything I would have said that would have revealed anything, town or scum. It read like he’s trying to make his play seem townier/more strategically towny than it actually is, or that he thinks he’s been acting scummy so he’s trying to justify himself.
Zenzao Walk me through what you were thinking with this?

Zenzao’s wall: I don’t really get it. Could you just spell out one more time what made you reverse your Jan and Rubicon reads? Maybe I missed something you wrote, sorry.

Zenzao/Rubicon exchange on page 22-23:
Probs not w/w?

Tom- tom Why did you vote Jan then? (#339)

#154’s “Why are you asking me to answer my question to Rubicon?”
seems towny
#209 “That's a super weird combination of pockety and meaningless” to Jan also towny

#240 “Owner I kind of want to vote you.
But now I'm all self conscious about voting without adding anything.
Should I do it?”
Also towny, don’t feel like scum would say this out loud.

+ I’ve been reading him a lot townier after he caught up.
His catch up post seemed towny, asking lots of qs/pushing. His confusion about Zenzao also seems p real. Also, in particular, the way he said I’m his top townread/agreed with font on not lynching me seemed v towny. I feel like scum would want to take more of a Rubicon response approach and be less opinionated/not want me to be THAT strongly townread.

Liked his push on Miner for his explanation of the me-townread.

Miner- Jan being the nightkill made Miner less suspicious to me, tbh. Jan hasn’t been attacking Miner much (or maybe he has been?), and I feel like I would be seen as probably a difficult lynch+Miner was my top scumread, so if Miner were scum it would have been hard to resist killing me, especially since it was early enough/I don’t hold enough power in thread that it would not have meant much for my reads if I had died.

Also, he wasn’t very defensive in response to my post, which gave him points in my eyes. Don’t quite know how I feel about his response to my “why am I towny?” q, because it’s very easy, especially for the latter users to just sheep that read, but I’m glad I asked it because others seem to have opinions.
His concerns bout HF also towny, and early in game he defends Owner from Quiddity’s #173 read (#176).

Quiddity-
Quiddity’s #173 explanation about how Owner reminds Quiddity of himself as jubilant scum read towny, I feel like that’s a weird thing for scum to say.
His #214 defense of Jan from Owner also towny

#308
“Please respond, owner. I'm not letting you carry that ill-reasoned pairing as a read to late, let's nip it in the bud”
Talks to owner as if town, could be tmi.
Quiddity why are you town reading fluff?


fonti: Her interactions with Jan make her seem townier than not imo. Also, her 415’s “Zen, you know you reversing on me and Jan just after we both said you felt scummy feels really sketch, yes?” reads towny.
Also, she seems to be on the casual side.

@his_fluffiness: What makes effort coming from town look different from effort coming from scum in your eyes?

Liked HF’s #577


Waco-

Waco’s reads post #499: The Waco Kid What felt like Rubicon wasn’t excited? What was so towny about my process? What is scummy about Quiddity trying to drag owner back into the spotlight, especially when you have Owner as likely scum? Quiddity only changed votes twice, why haven’t you called out others?

I feel like he really said/explained nothing, and he did a lot of sheeping. Idk, did not like that post.

Vaimes why do you think Zenzao is town? And why are you reading Rubicon so differently from other people in thread, do you think?


Voting Patterns:
Rubicon: Zenzao (RVS) -> Owner (RVS? (am confused), #43) -> Jan (#147) -> Quiddity (#198) -> Miner (#227) -> Lyric (#322) -> Vaimes (#322) -> Quiddity (#500) -> Owner (680) -> Miner (735) -> Waco (joke, 785) -> Owner (797)
Miner: HF (RVS) -> Quiddity (#502) -> Owner (606)
Vaimes: Owner (RVS) -> Rubicon (#83, RVS) -> Miner (RVS, #246)
Quiddity: Miner (RVS) -> HF (#304) -> Rubicon #330 -> 716 Miner -> Rubicon -> Owner (803)
tom: Jan (#148) -> Quiddity (#202) -> Cobalt (#204) -> Quiddity (339) -> Quiddity (367) -> Quiddity (no unvotes, #486) ->Owner (492) > Quid (579) Owner (668) -> Rubi -> Owner (814)
Jan: Rubicon (#153) ->
fontisian: Rubicon (#164)
Zenzao: Rubicon (#170), fonti (#188), Owner (#450)
Quiddity: Owner (#173), HF (#304) -> (567) Owner -> Rubicon (670) -> Owner (672) -> Miner (739) -> Owner (764)
Waco: Vaimes (RVS, #177)
Lyric (me): Miner -> Owner
HF: Quiddity -> Owner (565) -> Rubi (806) -> owner (811)
Cobalt: Von (RVS, #305) -> Miner (736)
Waco: Rubicon (#499)

^PSA I might have messed up stuff ( but I think I got everything?).

Not even sure what I was trying to do with this tbqh, or if I should have included Jan or Owner.

I’ll get back to this at some point and see if anything pops out, maybe later on when I properly read the last couple pages and what happened around EoD.


Anyways, random other notes:


Miner doesn’t improve much in his later posts regarding reads I don’t think.
Seems to defend himself/snark more than he reads people (621)


tom/Rubicon

Vaimes/Rubicon

(I think I was making a list of pairs I thought to be possible then gave up)

tom/quid are unaligned (don’t remember why I said that)


I’ll make a vote and more stuff just not now.


I’ll try to make this my last long post.

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I'll say more/make more sense tomorrow, that was just my bad attempt at catching up and trying to do stuff

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Basically, I'm okay with lynching Rubicon, Miner, Zenzao, HF, and Waco as of now.

I think tom, Quid, Vaimes, and fonti are more likely to be town than scum.

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Maybe not AS down with lynching HF as the other four

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Maybe later, I don't want to look at this thread anymore lmaooo

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Also tom you're the only one that actually responds to my reads and I appreciate

 

I'm not fully sure how to respond to that.

Like, physically how. Ok I'll start with:

I voted Quid in 339. Because I thought (think? there were some parts of that read that I just had wrong and parts that were based on being w/w with Owner and IDK anymore) he was scum.

I assume you're asking about 148 though. I voted Jan because Ruby did. And asked Ruby a question.
AFAIR I had no read on Jan whatsoever, but me and Ruby were hunting together (see: the two posts before)

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I got you, fam.

 

Why do you think my reads are p different from a lot of the other players? Lack of meta? Something wrong with my analysis?

 

I quoted that post to vote rubicon as soon as i got to "then you dropped off"
But then I read the rest of the post and didn't.

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I'm not sure if I have a sense of everyone's reads. But I think my only active disagreement with you is I think Miner is town and Quid maybe scum
Zenzao moderately townie as well

 

I'm talking about #682, and I dislike this response.

You're null because you haven't actually done anything solidly town yet for me.

Also you're totally pocketing me. It's fun but I'm onto you.

The whole statement was nonsense.

Voting him and pointing out something I don't like about his reasoning is not "flinging mud." It's just saying what I think. It is asking - only without a question mark.

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Lyric, I have no problem with you or your time constraints. Please continue to bleed towniness when you do have time to post and we'll be fine.

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I recommend being less confident that Tom and fonti are town.

 

Day 2-do list:

Reread.
Figure out Quiddity.
Look at Jan and Owner's reads.
Post gifs.
Get townread.
Lynch scum.

 

3 out of 6 is probably attainable.

 

I've already addressed the Rubicon thing if you've read my posts. There's a difference between being active and scum hunting. Multiple times Rubicon stated how excited he was to catch scum, yet he was not pushing on to turn that excitement into catching scum.

The process is towny because newb!scum will rarely if ever post notes like that. Why question me for the opinion when it was mentioned by multiple people before me?

Especially now that owner has flipped town, it's scummy because he was trying to pull town!owner back into the fire as the attention of the thread was going elsewhere. This could potentially mean he was trying to draw attention away from a partner.

Read your own notes below, Quiddity changed votes far more than twice yesterday.

[/QUOTE]
Lyric, wanna tell me what I don't like about this grouping (Hint, it doesn't involve me)

 

Hey! I'm not caught up in thread, sorry, missing a few pages.Ik long post so probs missed it, but I think I mentioned it in post. Am out and phone posting will respond better later and hopefully catch up to your other posts (as in read carefully bc I am somewhat skim-caught up)

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Jk ignore post bc am out and drunk and not sure I read your just now post correctly

 

I really really don't like Quid this game.

Like, if you look at EOD voting yesterday Quid was pretty much the first person to jump on a wagon that looked like it had gained any sort of traction. He voted around, made no effort to describe why he was voting whoever it was at the time, and basically tried to sheep what most of town was doing.

I feel like Quid has had two scumgames now where he actively busses his partner d1, and realizes that people will see that in the future and call him out on it, so now he's tried to switch things up a little, but the only problem with that is that his behavior this game just reminds me even more of scum (not necessarily scum!Q but just how I'd expect scum to play in general).

So yeah, I'm on board with tom (God, you don't know how weird it is to write that).

Lynch: Quiddity

 

I stand by my opinion that owner did nothing throughout D1 that could have convinced me she was town and mostly everything to the contrary. Jan dying lastNight tells me that he was on the right track and I'll re-read/skim with that in mind later.

I have never once in my history as a player placed a random vote since the time of Lexicat's CYS game three years ago, and I expected that to be common knowledge for at least a few of these guys(Vaimes in particular given his seeming familiarity with my meta in the past).

When I saw that you were calling my vote style random, I was intending to see if you reacted any differently around my response to you that would indicate you knew I was lying about it via Scumchat.

That pinged me a little further so I carried on,

The second half of the top paragraph in the initial RVS post was a clue,

The only players to seemingly pick it up were Jan and Fonti and maybe tom but since he seemed to post WTFIZD after several of my early posts, I was on the fence.

I made a handful of nudges on my part to pay attention to my posts,

To date: In order to test you, I pushed an obvious(to me) lie about my posts. You did not react very much around it, however within a page or so Jan, Fonti, and maybe tom did. I already felt at that point that Jan and Fonti were worth eyeballing so this did not unduly sway me.

Alright, I can see the trouble as my opinion about them has shifted back and forth between 'initial read' and 'serious read' given the complexities involved. Let's break this down into easily digestible dinner plates.

I mentioned in my 3DS post that to that point I did not have any serious scumspects, just a handful of users I thought were worth more scrutiny prior to a proper re-read. This ties my test of you,

I did feel to that point that Rubicon had improved since the time that I'd initially voted for him, and that Jan was too flippant with his page-spanning filler with owner. However, while most of what I wrote about Fonti is also true (stemming from our Mimefia interaction, CYS IIRC), I was also justifying my supposed RVS vote on her without referencing that she and Jan had maybe caught on and I was still processing if that indicated town or scum.

Just before re-reading I dropped my initial wall,

Which Fonti prodded me over above the Tom line, and with that in mind I answered,

Around the same point you asked me why I was town-reading Rubicon, and I answered,

which was also true to that point.

Then I got into my #394, which was about the time when I put you on the back-burner. I went into that post expecting to support something with Jan/Fonti as staying in the suspect-to-scum range, and instead almost right away noticed what felt like an odd interaction between owner and Quiddity that had nothing to do with the test.

Jan and Rubicon's responses from then to roughly post #200 shifted my opinion further once I was actively comparing them against owner and Quiddity and the thread as a whole. As Jan descended my list Fonti's support of him began to make more sense for a town perspective, and that in turn bolstered the ascension of Rubicon when combined with my own notes on his posting.

After that Rubicon cast a bit a shade on me w/r/t if I had actually seeded anything into my posts(and that he wasn't going to look any time soon), instead being content to remain where he was. Our debate about such then soon skewered into a debate with owner where she further dug her own hole. By that point I was quite certain on her.

In summary: Tested you, noted Jan/Fonti. Re-read properly, noted owner/Quid more strongly than Jan/Fonti, which highlighted doubts I found about Rubicon's interaction.

Since owner and Jan and now conf!town, I'm putting a bit more trust into Fonti on Quid and Rubicon for now.

Lynch Vote Rubicon.

 

Okay I'm home!

@Waco
Like I mentioned, I haven’t actually fully read through the last couple pages (including the ones where you posted a few more times). I thought I skimmed well though, but I guess not enough to see the things you’ve said? I’ll actually go through the pages tomorrow and see if they answer my questions. Maybe it was different earlier on, but I did/do feel like Rubicon was actually pushing people/scumhunting at times.

I asked you because at the time you made that post, I thought your reads read very sheep-y, so I wanted to make you articulate the reasons for your read. The first two people who called me town did so in a way I thought was towny, and the third (fonti I believe) is known for not really explaining things, so I ignored them and focused on questioning other people (when it became all too easy/popular to call me towny).

I was asking you to explain your thoughts at the time of your thoughts, because owner had not flipped town then. Same with the Quiddity votes- he had only changed twice at the time you made your reads post (I’m pretty sure?), while others have changed more (I can try double checking tomorrow).

And I have no idea what you don’t like about that grouping.

Also, I don’t like your response. Why would you bring up owner flipping town as a reason to justify a read you made before she flipped town, like did you maybe have some information prior to that that maybe the rest of us didn’t?

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Okay, Zenzao just became a lot more towny-seeming to me.

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Vote: The Waco Kid.

(Idk if you remember me, but I'm so excited to see WH6 people again!) However, I think you're scummy. I just read your ISO and I didn't see anything new or convincing at all. :/ Also still confused about your Q comment, do you not remember what you were thinking at the time he switched his votes twice that made you go "wagon hopping!" vs others, or do you just not remember the fake thought you didn't actually have? Maybe my post/q was the confusing one, but I feel like obviously I was questioning you on your thought process during the time your post was actually made if I'm making a catch up thread. I feel like town would know that, because town would understand that my primary purpose rn is to try and get a read.

Idk if that just made sense.

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This is so great I love that people are actually talking about game stuff with me now

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Ugh I just saw my Quiddity vote mistakes, my own post makes me so sad

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Oh, and I included Waco twice too. Plus added Jan's first vote before deciding not to do Jan or Owner. Just in case people get confused.

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Uh, so I just changed my avatar, but if that's confusing for anyone I'll def change it back until the game's over!

 

Good morning.

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Alright Miner is getting talked about today so I want to expand on this (yes this is me still not rereading. Sue me)

For those that don't know, this is miner and my 5th game together.
In the first 4, he was town in all 4 and essentially scumread me the entirety of all of them. I make myself pretty easy to suspect at times, and he definitely knows how to do it.
But this game, he's trying to get along.
There's kind of just no reason at all for him to do that as scum. He'd never get backlash if he just kept doing the same thing. And I'm a pretty key mislynch for any scumteam ever.
The only benefit he could possibly get is pocketing me. That's it.
Which, if he's scum, has totally worked. But it just wouldn't be worth it. Especially since he saw Newcomb hard pocket me in WH7 and me just... hammer him to end the game anyway.

Miner is town. He only gets the townread for doing this once, but this is the time. I'm stoked to work with him.

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You're early! I don't know if I'm still scumreading Quid yet.

I didn't like his treatment of Owner but I'm not sure it makes as much sense as w/v as it did as w/w.

But I like the point that it's scummy in a vacuum but not actually similar to what we've seen from scum Quid. That's a thing I need to consider.

He's been scum twice here now? I guess he'd have to change it up if he rolled scum again.

 

How did he read you in the scum game?

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Vote: The Waco Kid

 

I wasn't in the game where he was scum. This is the 5th, and he was town the first 4.
Pretty sure he is again.

 

Did he successfully lynch you in any of those games?

 

Just once, in AYAW 4. I got vigged in SVM, we won before my spot in the PoE in WH7, and one was mimefia (where I did get lynched, but he was already dead and that was a good thing anyway).

It's not about getting me lynched though. Yes, that would be a thing scumminer would want. But it's about making extra work for himself to fake a read when he already had a fake read on me built in.

 

Sorry, I didn't have time yesterday.

The fonti vote is mostly "why wasn't she nightkilled?" It's vanilla, so the concerns are 1) towniness, 2) narrative, 3) scariness, and a dab of 4) paranoia. Fonti is generally accepted the scariest player, and I think paranoia is removed from the mix by last games evidence. Towniness is a wash, I don't think either was particularly consensus town.

So we come to narrative. And the big thing for me that I remember is fonti talking on my lynch. I think I'm a pretty easy mislynch from here, with some big people pushing it and others (Vaimes) silent. I think Jan was vaguely townreading me, but wasn't pushing it at all.

Whereas fonti posted against it, firstly lightly to owner, and then stronger in a way that persuaded Rubicon to reconsider to some extent.

So why wasn't she killed? Scum?


Obviously, I don't expect a fonti lynch today. But I think it's important to highlight that, so we remember it for later.


The alternative answer is to kill off a strong town voice, silent discussion. That reminds me a lot of last game, where we kinda won because town lost its energy, and makes me think scum are happy with the status quo and are hoping to push lazy lynches from it.

Vote The Waco Kid

Lyric, I need to look back, but I liked some of HF's interjections, on owner's wall for instance.