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[Naruto] How powerful should a character be?

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by TMNTurtwig, Dec 7, 2015.

  1. TMNTurtwig

    TMNTurtwig Professor

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    [Originally posted in thread Pet Peeves v.10.]

    Despite the fact that there are quite a few stories I enjoy there, I once again find myself amazed at the general stupidity of the average commenter at Spacebattles. I just tried to read a Naruto SI there, and the first few comments were all giving OP shit for NOT being a mary sue. I quote, "If you're not a Mary Sue and disgustingly overpowered by the time you're 6, then you're doing it wrong."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2015
  2. Wildfeather

    Wildfeather The Nidokaiser ~ Prestige ~

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    But I mean... They're right. Naruto has every conceivable advantage to be ridiculously OP as fuck at a young age (Kakashi was a chunin by that time iirc). If you are doing a self-insert, and don't take advantage of those things to be broken as fuck, you're doing a terrible job of it.

    That being said there's a series of errors leading me to believe you're going to be disappointed no matter what had happened.

     
  3. Captain Trips

    Captain Trips High Inquisitor

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    Well, not every single Ninja have the potential to be awesome, many Narutoverse Ninja are useless cannonfodder.
     
  4. Ashton Knight

    Ashton Knight Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Except they do. It's just that most Ninja don't really bother training that much. Here's the basic Naruto Formula

    1. Start with tree climbing (Builds reserves and control)

    2. Once enough reserves, create a(nother) Shadow Clone.

    3. Repeat steps 1&2.

    4. Congratulations, you now have a character with massive reserves and massive control. End of Story.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  5. Lungs

    Lungs KT Loser ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Man I love fics that take advantage of canon like this. It makes for such rich and engaging storytelling. :sherlock:
     
  6. thebrute7

    thebrute7 High Inquisitor

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    I don't think you can do this.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that building chakra reserves was fanon, not entirely, but in the sense that most of a persons potential for chakra was inborn and training reserves rapidly ran into diminishing returns. Thus the reason that jinchuriki possess incomparable amounts of chakra compared to even S-class ninja like the Kage, or the Sannin.

    Also, Shadow Clone technique can only help you with knowledge and control, not strength and chakra reserves, and you can't learn to make more than one because the Multiple Shadow Clone Technique is a kinjutsu and thus forbidden to be taught.
     
  7. esran

    esran Professor

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    Since when does tree climbing build reserves?
     
  8. Peter North

    Peter North Dark Lord

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    It doesn't, it just helps you fine tune what you already have. Naruto was trying to fine tune an ocean's worth of chakra while normal people and I hesitate to say like Kakashi was trying to fine tune a rivers worth of chakra.
     
  9. M.L.

    M.L. Seventh Year

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    I seem to remember Kakashi telling Sakura after she got up the tree first to keep running up and down it, in order to build up her reserves.
     
  10. Pure Infinity

    Pure Infinity High Inquisitor

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    It happens in a lot of fics, but that didn't happen in canon.
     
  11. Zel

    Zel Professor

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    There is the inborn factor to consider but chakra reserves can be built up. The Yang part (physical energy) gets larger by a stronger and, possibly, a healthier body, while the Yin part (spiritual energy) is boosted by training the spirit, which is pretty much the same as honing your mind.

    Only Naruto could take advantage of the Shadow Clone Training in the sheer scale we saw in the manga, but I think you are correct that it could be very helpful for any training regime, provided that the mental backlash isn't bad for your health. Kind of strange that no SI fics took advantage of this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  12. Ashton Knight

    Ashton Knight Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Mental backlash? Is that not fanon?
     
  13. Hero of Stupidity

    Hero of Stupidity Villain of Sensibility ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    When he was training in the Elemental Training Arc for the Rasenshuriken, he got all the exhaustion for the clones, and they mostly used their chakra not their body and the Yin part is spiritual(mind) so the mental blackslash is canon.
     
    Zel
  14. Nemrut

    Nemrut The Black Mage ~ Prestige ~

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    Yes, Naruto canon has stupidly powerful 6 year olds. However note that canon can be a) really, really stupid at times and b) even canon never outright showed a 6 year old kicking ass, as if it knew that it would be too dumb. It's merely used to make the already badass characters seem more badass by stating that they were already jounin level when they were 8.
     
  15. Striker

    Striker What's up demons?

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    In regards to Kakashi, you need to keep in mind that jounin is the highest given rank aside from Kage, which means it runs into the same pitfalls as the ranking system- technically, Hidan and Nagato are both S-class nin. That doesn't mean they're both equally qualified to lead Akatsuki. Likewise, while Kakashi and Minato are both technically jounin during Kakashi Gaiden, they're nowhere near in the same league.

    It's also possible that the war played a part in things. Standards for promotion very well could have been relaxed/based on different skills than in peace time/etc. Would make sense, too, given what we know of graduate conditions for genin in peace time vs war.
     
  16. bakkasama

    bakkasama Seventh Year

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    Only Natuto had reserves big enough for the shadow clone training. The result of someone doing a shadow clone to help them train would be that they both would get tired twice as fast, resulting on the same amount of training as if he did it without it.

    Besides, unless the SI is supposed to be super talented, they wouldn't get that good in that little time. Even then there are the limitations of the body to consider and that they would have to thread the line between hell training and messing up their body with no experience as to what the limits of the new body are.

    Furthermore, most of those SI use the explanation the because they didn't have chakra before they are more aware of it and thus would have an easier time using it... but as a baby I doubt they would have enough to tell the difference and as they grow and get used to the body they wouldn't really have any advantage over the rest of the charactes since it is the same for them.

    That is without taking into account that training all day takes an exceptional amount of willpower, one that most people don't have and that the SI authors just hand wave with a "yeah, I could totally do it", which doesn't sound like they are honest with themselves.

    Not to mention that if the ninja clans don't start training their children as Young as the SI start, well, I would asume that the guys with over a hundred years and people building upon their experience would know better than the guy who read a manga, just like how reading Hajime no Ippo does not make me a boxing expert.
     
  17. Airilife

    Airilife Not Equal

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    Tbh the whole shadow clone concept never being revealed till shippuuden always felt like a retcon.
     
  18. Nemrut

    Nemrut The Black Mage ~ Prestige ~

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    Regardless, Jounin still implies a level of competence and strength that find silly in an 8 year old. It's one thing to send out child soldiers when you really need the manpower, but you don't make the 8 year old a special ops guy or give him command over a squad of adults.

    Already find 12 year old genin to be meh, but I can roll with it, although very few Naruto fanfics have convinced me of the age of their protagonists, but 6-8 year olds kicking ass on the frontlines, that's just bizarre. Takes me right out of the story, even in this silly fantasy world.
     
  19. Pure Infinity

    Pure Infinity High Inquisitor

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    While I agree that it's absurd for young children to lead squadrons, them kicking ass on the front lines make perfect sense in setting. We have child soldiers in the real world as it is, and with the balancing factor of chakra it's not all that odd. That said, look at the two main instances of young children fighting on the front lines - Kakashi and Itachi. Both are geniuses, both have at least one shinobi parents. It's not that odd that they'd be drafted early, especially in Kakashi's case, during a time of war.

    It's also played relatively straight in canon, with both of them having a fuckton of issues.
     
  20. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Leaving aside how feasible or not feasible it is for a character to be OP in Naruto canon...

    An original character, SI or otherwise, should be as powerful as is warranted by the story you're trying to tell.

    Want to insert an SI almost directly into canon, and play along through canon events? Then having them be OP by the age of six doesn't make a lot of sense. AFAIK there's no evidence in canon that anyone can be awesome if they'd just train more. Anyone could get significantly better, and maybe everyone has the potential to claw their way to jonin... but there's a lot of variation once you're there.

    If you want to write an SI contemporary of Kakashi, then from a storytelling POV it might make sense for them to be able to keep up (or almost keep up) with him as a child.

    And so on. Figure out what kind of character you need, then tweak your worldbuilding so it's not an asspull before you start writing.
     
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