Yes, thank you. I'll take that last comment in the spirit I hope it was intended.

I think you have a pretty solid case there. I especially can't shake that one post of his you quoted where he voted "Rubicon for posterity (he actually is scum.)" That really does strike me as kind of a snarky, wolfy post a wolf might make at the end of the day where things went off the rails for them like that. I especially think combined with his obvious and perhaps exaggerated frustration - calling the entire thread idiots, taking his ball and going home for the night - it paints a picture of a world where he's scum.

I didn't get a chance to re-read much, but I'm caught up and this is where I'm at:

Readwall in spoilers for a summary:

Spoiler

TMNT
Titus
Kalas
Tyhpon
Banks
The Waco Kid
Snowvon
Zenzao
Atum
MathBlade
Jan
Qgqqqqq
Pozzai
Citrus

Not interested in lynching today:

TMNT (cleared)
Titus (Tsunade until proven otherwise)

Kalas (right where I'm at with Titus, also paranoia about the JanHammer which I feel we need to actually address)
Typhon (testy back and forth with fonti after she poked him; same approach to thinking things through from what I can tell)
Banks (went after Rubicon hard)
Waco Kid (still towncrediting him for mind-meld D1)

Snowvon (#2222 and trying to bring clarity to confusion today)
Zenzao (last two big posts have been good, esp. the one yesterday)
Atum (Unsure. There's been pressure here and I need to figure out where/why it's coming. People seem to flip on him quickly?)

MathBlade (grudgingly coming around)
Jan (syntax of posts makes him hard to read, but I think I see gamesolving esp. those big posts two days ago.)

Targets for re-read, interested in untangling how I feel about them:

Qgqqqqq (thread disconnect, armchair general, frustration no one is talking to him believable?)
Pozzai (engages a lot with people but over very specific things and explains and spools out the yarn a ton. Playstyle? Or seeming like he's trying to solve the game without actually doing it?)

Top suspect, h/t MathBlade, that was good work:

Citrus (MB made a good case. Highlighted the one quote that just felt off.)

I realized as I wrote those out that I'm light on suspects - mainly this reflects the fact that I need to untangle Qgqqqq / Pozzai before I move on down the list / recalibrate for recent events.

But for now...

Citrus

 

Newcomb -- Hey, you get what you ask for. Sorry snark off now. What does h/t mean?

IMHO these are the only people who I am interested in lynching to borrow Newcomb's style
These are in somewhat a particular order. Some people move up and down on it, so it's not yet static. Mostly it's based off of who I could see with Rubicon right now based on their posts. I still need to do a reread with Atum since Titus won't shut up about how they are scum. *sigh* Trying to translate Titus world is a major headache and I've known her my whole life.


Citrus
Atum
Zenzao (begrudingly I waffle a lot here.)
Kalas
Q
Waco Kid
Typhon

---

Maybe lynch in case of extreme absolutes:

Pozzai -- This one I really wouldn't consider unless the whole thread decides that is what we have to do. I don't really see Pozzai being group scum though but could be 3P I want to see how they react.

---

Every one else I have town reads of varying degrees on so I don't want to and won't vote to lynch them barring some major event like a cop guilty.

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Whoops copy paste fail remove Atum. I'm townreading them heavily right now but not to the point of where a good case would make me reconsider that. I need to reread the thread tonight for it.

 

h/t = hat tip. As in, "I tip my tat to you, sir."

I didn't mean literally explain it like I'm 5. I mean like the subreddit, ELi5 - like, explain it in the most basic form of the argument. But, I'm not complaining, like I said that was a good case.

Reading your list, I now feel more uncomfortable having too few suspects. I think I lost a little paranoia from the Rubicon=Orochimaru victory lap. Which probably means we're hopelessly off track and going to be boned and scum is going to end up being something I'd never guess in a million years like you/Banks/Jan/Snowvon.

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LOL just noticed the typo.

I tip my HAT to you.

Jesus. I should go to bed.

 

I can 100% guarantee that is not the case. If you lynch any of those people I will cry a sad sad cry. I has real tears.

However, sometimes talking out your reads helps. You should see my QT where I do my thinking and such. I'm up to 181 posts and includes talking to myself about why Fonti died. Now that I think I have answered that question a lot more makes sense.

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Don't worry I don't like tats anyway you can keep it I can figure out some typos. I'm not that literal.

 

Okay, talk to me about Qg. I keep getting the feeling we're going to go down a TMNT road with him - like, the "armchair general" narrative I talked about a few posts up is kind of a stale one, - the main post I have highlighting my read of him is #638, and that was forever ago - and kind of filling a void IMO. Where's your townread coming from? What do you see from him? I mean non-meta stuff would be helpful but I'll take what I can get.

 

Zenzao's case on Citrus trying to draw out roles makes sense if we're all town reading each other so scum need a high body count.

 

Oh wait, I misread your list. You're not townreading him (?).

 

I don't have a firm townread on him. He's in my willing to lynch list, but I have better suspects (e.g. Citrus). More like I'm confident the rest of scum are there and I need to get a feel as to who the team is and figure that out.
Titus -- Zenzao's case does but I'm not 100% sold it's not coming from scum willing to lynch Guren or Sasuke in order to keep Kabuto alive. I want to see who he is town reading at this point. Zenzao?

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My gut reads are Citrus/Zenzao/(one of Atum or Kalas, but not both) as the remaining scum team, but I need to see if that holds up with the thread. With a Pozzai 3P kicker.

I honestly think Pozzai thought things were going well and that he crumbed his 3P ness, but I want to get group scum today rather than lynch Pozzai and give scum the extra kill if I am right. I'd rather force scum to kill Pozzai rather than have us do it for them. This also saves us in case I misunderstood things from lynching a townie, from what I have read of Pozzai I don't believe they could be group scum. I could be wrong here, so I want Pozzai to convince me I misread them.

I think I can know why Q is doing what they are doing and it reminds me of something so I'm going to leave it there and call it a gut read on Q that they are town. However, I'm not sold on them being town, so they are willing to lynch.

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If Zenzao happens to be town then I'd put Waco Kid, Typhon, Q in that order for them.

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And for the record, reddit references are way over my head. :$ I don't think I've ever even posted on reddit.

 

Boy, do I just love those Belgian waffles being served all over this topic. So you do have a townread on me. mfw

Guren is a Nightly Roleblocker - hell of a power to give up, if it interferes with Sakura/Tsunade/Naruto etc. Sasuke is Cop Check result gatherer/Godfather. Compared to Kabuto, however, I would agree that, if the Scum were going to give either up for Kabuto's sake, they might compromise on Sasuke - particularly if the Cop died lastNight? But I am not Scum. Fonti+Snow back this.

#2436. Most of my nulls from my #1836 have been resolved as either townie or scummy since I last posted it, in conjunction with Fonti's death lastNight and no soup attempt/fail on Titus/TMNT appearing in the Day opening post. I am reluctantly lowering you and Titus in accordance to Fonti's placement, and her reads, in light of Fonti/Titus/TMNT dropping from the top of my last readwall - and in doing so the next nearest scummy players and a good few town match with what Fonti and you have been pointing to. PoE coupled with what I'd said back in #1836 puts Jan, Snow, Kalas, and Atum where they currently are. If you want more specifics than that I can look back at the posts from J+S+K+A since TMNT's claim for more substance, but so far nothing else from them is sticking out greatly to sway me, outside of Jan abruptly No Lynch hammering.

Ah yes, good old gut readings. You sure you're separating that from bias given you've been subjectively scum-grouping me with Titus and town-reading me by turns all game?

What about Fonti's push on him early in D1?

Reasons for?

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And I do need to lower Banks at least one position in my latest read wall given he did peg Rubicon. I was mostly focused on Citrus and Fonti at the time I posted it.

 

Zenzao -- mfw? (I don't know what that means so if I respond as out of context then please address this.)

Yes I have waffles because I haven't broken the entire game yet. Deal.

Guren can't interfere with Tsunade, it comes first in the order of operations posted by his fluff. However, if Guren was dumb enough to block them (probably Titus) last night, power to town. Interesting you bring up Sakura now, I'm not quite so sure of their power, and with the way town is going with the O dude dead. Putting them first must mean you find them really powerful. Interesting thought process.

Fonti I'm not 100% sold she backed you not being scum because of the difference between how she defended you and Atum. You are a town read of Fonti and Snow, but she was blinded by Atum's towniness, and Titus is apparently blinded by Atum's scumminess.

Snow really hasn't been on enough to justify that.

It wouldn't make sense for scum to shoot Fonti if they thought she was the cop. Her reads were directly in inverse to a lot of what was going on. While she is a good gamebreaker, and that is part of Fonti's appeal, I think scum would need more of a motive to move away from Titus the town firm and stop her from setting up a QT. Namely "a hunch" usually doesn't replace a sure thing. I think it was partially because she suspected Citrus and a couple of other things I'm keeping in my back pocket for now.

I know you have the wall, but I was wanting to see about the reads versus the firms. I wanted to see what was malleable for you and see if it came from a scum mentality or a town mentality.

Dropping me down equivalent to Titus whose role is pretty much confirmed at this point unless someone CC's is a bit scary as to why Atum and I are on that level. The only thing I've been doing is posting arguments. If you think you have my role from that, that's fine, but I'm questioning why you have two people at that level. It just doesn't make sense.

I can see Jan no lynch hammering because he trusts Titus or to stop something else from happening. I can see a town motivation from it and a scum one. I don't think this changes where I have them either way. I think scum are going to use it to try to frame Jan but I'm not entertaining a Jan lynch today.

Honestly I'm not sure. I think you're town because of the Geneva convention and then I think you're scum you do things that make no sense today. (E.g. The read wall and the adamance of sticking by what is a weird ordering by any stretch and the Sakura reference.) On paper you should be a scum read which is why I have you here, my logical gut says you are scum, but my heart gut says you are town. However, I have you in my scum team as my head says so.

Waco Kid for their push on Titus and their attempted manipulations. I don't get a good vibe there. He's almost the converse of you. On paper they are town, but in my gut they are scum.

Tython for not posting that many unique thoughts but I'm giving him some of a pass because of RL I believe they mentioned before.

Q just because they post more than Tython in a sense but I'm thinking this reminds me of something and I'm not sure if that's intentional or not.

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And yes I'm making an assumption the O dude is dead. Deal.

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Hence my push on Citrus, because if you are scum and doing what may be a possibility it makes sense to get rid of the scumread I'm the most confident in regardless of role versus make a push at you or one of Atum or Kalas, of which I'm not as sure of but by each of you continuing to post and my backups posting I can see what worlds begin to form by combining d1 and d2.

So if this is a scum sacrifice, I honestly don't care except for having everyone post so I can break this shit.

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Oh forgot to address Fonti's push. Not quite sure there. I think maybe doing it in a new way called attention to it. That one I don't quite understand yet. Mostly the 3P read on Pozzai is their crumb and how I interpret their game play.

 

Example a, Example b.

I really wanna bitch about this, but then I realized it would just be like that poor Charmander gif from the pokemon pics thread.

Glanced at the OoO and misread Guren Redirects as Guren Roleblocks.

The point stands on our vaccination role - she is still very much viable if Kabuto takes on Orochimaru's souping, or did you miss that in your haste to justify me as Scum?

Let me bring Fonti's read up right quick.

Really? So what's your case against Atum, again? Refresh my memory. Because he's been feeling towny for quite a while IMO.

mfw.

Um. How does it not make sense? Fonti=Cop=checking various Scumspects for confirmation. It'd be useless if she hit the Sasuke role or the Tobi role, but that still would have left Kabuto|Guren, assuming that Rubicon was Orochimaru and this isn't a souping ploy. And then the Sasuke role would in turn blab to the rest of the Scum that they'd been checked, leading to a plethora of changes in player behavior that should have, reasonably, lead to scumslips.

Right.

You are there because Fonti repeatedly said MATH IS TOWN TITUS IS TOWN prior to DayEnd and, as our one and only Conf!Town given she was NK'd lastNight, I am taking her word for that in addition to you actually demonstrating some level of credibility, especially on Citrus. Atum is there because he has been making good posts that I trust as solid town. Titus is, at the moment, unconfirmed but not yet CC'd on being Tsunade, while TMNT is also not wholly confirmed to be Danzo.

I suppose in that light I should have Titus/TMNT just above Fonti and then New beneath them, with you and Atum following suit. I have no idea what your role is besides being Wafflemaster of the Universe.

Unlike Pozzai's near-hammering of TMNT yesterDay, Jan abruptly ended the conversation, against Fonti's will, by hammering the No Lynch. It's a fucking wonder Danzo did hit Rubicon unless he'd already had Rubicon's name down, because from WH11, according to Judge!Mal, the name chosen prior to a No Lynch is the one that should have been chosen at DayEnd. Unless TMNT hadn't put down anyone to that point and HF gave him a pass on making a decision, it was a risky gambit that had plenty of room to bite us in the ass, and it seems like it paid off this time.

So nothing else I have done this game has merited a town read from you. Not one question asked, not one push on anyone, and nothing from anyone else, not even the one and only Conf!Town player in this game so far, has changed that, has even impacted that.

:facepalm

Anyone else wanna chime in on this?

Right. Foaming at the mouth is generally reacted to with a frown.

@Obs, I'm sorry Fonti, but this is just bullshit. HOW were you town reading Math? Like, at all?

 

You shut your face.

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I will Von, don't worry.

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I was busy yesterday, and am today as well, just skimming through the thread looking at questions aimed at me before I'm out the door again.

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I will not be around till at earliest 8pm my time (should be 2pm yours)

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I will get back on you as soon as I get through it.

Needless to say I'm more surprised than most.

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Those are really good points in regards to people aligning. I really like this post from a townperspective.

 

Okay top to bottom here we go:

LoL That Charmander pic is hilarious. I feel like that sometimes.

Sakura can only poison one role a night. Sakura is good in the hands of a good player. A cop is good in the hands of any town player unless they decide to out their role for no apparent reason. The majority of roles are more potent the longer they live. Sakura on the other hand is an oopsie doopsie button giver. If people have been playing their roles correctly and town doesn't out town then we are good here.

In terms of what is more valuable at the end of the game, the cop almost always surpasses the vaccinator. Reason being is that if they make it to end game then they will have most likely vaccinated their targets.

While the vaccinator protects from accidents, they are not the be all end all. The fact you are thinking with a killing mentality has me worried. I don't disagree that a cop is powerful, but suggesting she is the cop without evidence to the contrary doesn't make sense. I don't think that's why she was killed sorry.

And sure. I'll take Wafflemaster of the universe. And some syrup and eat it too. Because admittedly I do.

About Jan hammering I've said my peace on that one.

Regarding my read of you, on the contrary, a lot of what I have done has impacted my read in my heart gut. Your passioned arguments and how you play the game are saying you are town, but it's nothing that I can articulate on paper all that well. It's one of the reasons I wanted to see D2 play out so I can reassess.

From my Point of View lynching Citrus is the play that makes sense as he is the scum read I'm relatively confident enough to lynch.

And I know that last line is meant as sarcastic but look at my QT post game. When Titus did stupid things before she revealed (like her bs arguments against me and her d1 post) I made the emotional equivalent. Just because it isn't what you'd do doesn't mean it's not an acceptable response. That's one of the things I've struggled with.

About Atum, he seems to act with courage of conviction here in D2 that I am scum. However, I am not scum and that he seems to be very reactionary while attempting to look planned. I think he is town for something he did in the beginning of the game, but my read on him in D2 is a bit off. Call it OMGUS if you want but D2 makes me question some things.

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=831723&postcount=2349

That post here as well as Titus's incessant screaming makes me reassess. Before the information on Fonti I was thinking man if Atum hadn't done this one thing, then he'd be likely scum. Being able to get that many posts though makes me think that he decided potentially that no matter what I said he would go ahead and tunnel me. Versus me and Citrus when I actually had to go look them up because I only write down important numbers for future reference not their content else my QT be a disorganized fuck storm.

His day two looks like he was set up for a tunnel on me, which we will see if it continues in the AM or not. I'm honestly hoping he wakes up and smells the coffee and sees that I am town, but if not then I'll just keep addressing his posts while the Citrus train picks up steam.

Hint: Choo Choo! I am running this train and thread now.
Anyone who objects to this better say why they think Citrus is town or forever hold your peace.

 

Dammit, that was supposed to read 'New above them with you and Atum following suit'.

 

It was still 2 votes off, I'm fine with people calling it a scummy action, but 2 votes off is hardly a "near hammering"

 

Pozzai -- Let me know when you are caught up because there is definitely something in the thread that needs your attention please. I would like a response even if it's choosing to not respond to what I have posted. Please and thank you

 

REALLY? SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP./butthurt

Okay, seriously. A Cop is only as good as the player behind it. A shitty Cop will pick the wrong players to investigate given the sway of the thread and how much of a leaf they are in the whirlwind that is guessing at the Name of the Wind. Sakura can act more than once a night to protect if she gets one of Chouji's pills.

And if the Scum team believed that Fonti was the Cop, again, how does it not make sense that they might therefore target her in that world?

Okay. Stop a minute. Are you bitching me out for trying to reason through why Fonti was NK'd? Are you 100% serious here? Even if we discount the world where Fonti was the Cop, why would she be NK'd instead of Titus or TMNT, two juicy subjects dangling within reach? Maybe because she was onto something like with Citrus?

I am now picturing a Hustler tableau of various math equations laying on fluffy waffle beds and having syrup poured across their calculations, drinking it in, while thrash metal plays in the background. This is my new favorite mental image.

Right.

Insert one grumble here. Redeem two for a thorough scowl at a later date.

And I agree with a Citrus lynch at this point. Who I'd like more out of is Pozzai and Q.

Third grumble goes here.

Keep in mind, I, New, Atum, and more(exactly who eludes me at the moment, may be misremembering but I don't think so) had you down for inconsistencies and general scummy behavior since all of D1. Reads on you have swayed over the past two thousand some odd posts(sidenote, cripes, is that a record for D1 posts in only a week?). Only Fonti has been on your side from the get-go IIRC.

Alright, I'll give you this. What of his rundown on Titus that Fonti and Kalas(again IIRC) and I also endorsed a while back? Similar tunneling or are there differences?

Hold it!.

Seconded.

 

As said, I've been buys, and still am.

I thought I got through all posts with my name in it posted since the day started(as I wanted to answer people's questions)

I guess you calling me 3rd party is better than mafia, but it is equally wrong.

From the nightkill I look really bad, she was on my case the entire day, and I on hers. I expected her to push me more/better than what she did if she was town, and I expected town!Fonti to care less about 'how good my read on her is' and merely laugh in my face.

I don't know what to make of Citrus' comment about her being "too active" to be Tobi in #2190 I felt she was extremely inactive from what I'd expect of her. She have been busy however and that might've been why she was that way, but claiming her to be too active seems strange to me.

 

Putting it within range to a sudden hammer, then, if your maybe Scummates had been eager to force an end to D1 so soon.

 

Also, if I was lone scum Mathblade, would I not have jumped in and tried to divert the judge!lynch to someone else than myself?

I basically stayed silent the entire time the judge!lynch was decided, something I'd do if I had partners that could/would defend me, but hardly something solo!Pozzai would do?

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3 votes in short succession with me being somewhat scumread by a good amount of people.

Seems better to just let one newb!scum die due to inexperience, than putting that kind of attention on one or two more teammates, no?