Because you are behaving so much like Math right now its maddening. The abrupt 180 on me between a dozen posts. I question your ScumScumScum!Atum/Von view and why you're town-reading Q and you start running this gambit to push me as Scum being bussed by Math. What the hell have I done that turned you from

 

To be fair Zenzao, when I was getting pummeled by the one-two punch of Mathblade + Titus yesterday, you definitely weren't stepping in with cries of "sodone" or "maddening".

It seems fairly hypocritical, or should I say self-serving, to get all up in arms now that it's your turn to face the music.

And I believe scum and Tobi are the factions that have to generally act...self-serving

 

Circumstances change. I would expect Math to distance from a buddy. Is it you? I don't know but to say "hard defense" is a little much.

---------- Post automerged at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

Citrus, everyone is self-serving.

 

Dead:

Lynches
-Math - most likely Sasuke, if we accept Waco as Naruto, which we basically have to at this point barring a CC (also, if the cop/real!Hinata is alive, fuck you guys for letting yesterday go down like that). Tobi doesn't make sense. Town doesn't either, but Math made massive stretches based on her current state of mind all game, so a gambit isn't completely out of the question. Pretty unlikely, though. Gluttons for punishment should try to go through spew. Marginally less conclusive than the other dead.

-Rubicon - almost certainly the poisoner. If not, it would be insane to have not souped last night. Snow posted one type of interaction analysis on him, I posted another. I'll combine them later and mine them for patterns in light of the reads of our two (basically) conf!town dead, see where that leads. Had solely negative direct interactions with Qg, as I discovered when I did the interaction analysis.

Night Kills
fonti - looks as though killing fonti was as much about taking out a major town player as much as it was about shutting her up, since her scum team included the unCC'd Waco and Pozzai, who seems likely to be the Hinata. On the other hand, she was right about Rubicon, and I think right about Qg as well, so maybe it was a dual objective there.

Banks - another strong town player down, another day of letting conf!townies live. Seeing a pattern here. Maybe suggests conf!town is on the wrong track and scum want to kill the stronger thinkers/doubtcat conf!town, but that's pretty WIFOMy, so not going to pursue that too far. Similarly, Banks mentioned potential scum Qg, although he stressed more that there was an 80% chance that either Zenzao or I was scum.

This statement from Banks was actually what makes me not as 100% sure that Math was scum, because I agree with his logic, and I'm still not sure about Zenzao. In the next 24 hours or so I hope to iso him and post a fuckallmassive readwall thing ala the Qg wall I did. If he turns up scummy in it, Math was almost certainly scum and it was a bus. If not, then I'd be semi-open to a town!Math world, because I accept the Pozzai/Waco claims and I'm town and it seems unlikely that she would defend scum!Qg and not bus at all.

Obvious stuff:
-Unless a night kill was a Tobi kill or Oro is actively anti-scum wincon, we haven't killed both Kabuto and Oro. Keep a lid on those roles/don't go crazy with crumbs if you do at all. 4 claims in 2 days is a pretty bad start, especially if Math was right and fonti was Sakura. Don't claim unless a 1v1 can be forced with scum, period. They have two potential soups if Kabuto commits to souping, so lock that down.

-Yesterday fucked most of our scum teams. Reboot. Don't drag an outdated read along. If nothing else, start by analyzing the dead and their reads. I'm increasingly afraid scum are leaving Titus alive because she's a fairly respected, post-wallish presence who is wrong with her reads, although again that's a little WIFOMy.

Don't have time to wall do the Zenzao wall or Rubicon interaction compilation thing tonight, as likely as not, but I will be on and reading, so ask me a question if you guys have any.

---------- Post automerged at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 PM ----------

Oh, and Qg is still super scummy from dead analysis and prior stuff, so yeah, we should lynch him today.

Vote: Qgqqqqq

---------- Post automerged at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------

Prior stuff being documented in the case I made yesterday prior to the insanity. See this link:

https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=832684&postcount=2791

 

I am taking another nap. No sense in interfering.

 

So Math claimed Ino at the very end, right? Theoretically, Ino probably targeted Titus N1, which means the real Ino could have a QT with someone right now.

If that's true, that person should probably claim Neighborized, because that would confirm that Math was indeed spewing 100% bullshit and would allow us to eliminate some possible worlds.

Anyone see a problem with that logic, or a downside to that person claiming? I'm not saying they claim their role, just the fact that they were Neighborized.

 

If the same person is in both Titus and Ino's chat, definitely do not out it. Might be other situations not beneficial

 

Me - xtra colour for even more rainbow!
Jan

TMNTurtwig
Titus
The Waco Kid
Pozzai

Newcomb
Snowvon

Zenzao
Citrus
Kalas

Atum
Typhon

Qgqqqqq


That is a rainbow mostly based on what i remember in the back of my head.
I really have to do some reading up about several ppl.

Newcomb is a mostly a leftover townread from day 1, but he has not been scummy after that and his day 1 was really towny.

Von is someone i know Fonti has a really good read on, and thats what makes him most likely town. I do agree he has to earn his place in town by playing and trying to be a bit more active.
With math dead the game might calm down a bit in general thus giving the not so active players more chances to shine.

Everyone from Zenzao down to Qgqqqqq are people that I need to reread on because i havent been around day 2 a lot (was ill so i scimmed over most of it but didnt really do in depth reading).
Plan to do most of that during the day tomorrow.


Citrus - considering Mathblade was most likely scum how much of her play was trying to force a Citrus kill and how much was it forcing distance between herself and a partner.

If she was the godfather, she knows she has a green on herself and could push a misslynch as long as she puts good reasoning behind it.

The one problem is, she never pushed the kill out of her own free will. She pushed it after Titus voted on him. Which makes it a bit harder to read into it.

Her reasoning was really bad, but it does read more like she wanted to push but didnt get more than that.
(Citrus played pretty conservative for most of day 1 which makes it harder to to get scum on him as either allignment)

I read Citrus more town from that interaction as a whole than mafia, may have to do another in dept read about it.

If someone has a good case to why it is the other way around we can talk about it, i will reread the whole interaction tomorrow (it is 4 am atm, kinda sleepy time)

---------- Post automerged at 04:32 ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 ----------

That is assuming we have 4 outed roles who are all real and still alive for some weird reason.

Not sure why town did not just kill them last night.

But without counterclaims i dont think any of them is worth reconsidering.

 

Not sure why town didn't kill conftown?

 

Mafia whatever .. watching the worst videomafia game ever on the 2nd screen + it is close to 5 am

Mafia are the guys with the poison and we both know it.

 

Sorry for posting, I didn't realise night had begun.

I have about 30 pages to catch up on (which, yeah, I should have done last night :bang: ). Anyone want to do a summary for me?

Well it's obviously bad for me

It looks like I'll be defending today. I'll note, though, that I repeatedly pushed Math to explain his town read on me, which he never really did.

 

Digging through some Banks posts, trying to analyze the NK:

First handful are just basic things, mainly "Sorry, been lazy, haven't caught up" type stuff and answering/asking a few questions.

First substantive post is 921, mainly offering thoughts about players he's familiar with, Jan and Pozzai. Cautious townread on Pozzai, uncertain about Jan.

More reads at 925. Push against Zenzao.

Null on Citrus, fonti "more town than not," me solid town, Waco "pretty town", Kalas and Atum scum lean but no reason given, Qg and Xan no read.

Here's that list in color.

At 1339 and in a few posts before, Banks pushes back against Rubicon and MB. MB for the "Jan said 'mislynch,' he's scum" thing, and Rubicon for a weird reaction - disliking Banks for ignoring the Titus = Tsunade claim. In a scum Math and scum Rubicon world, this kind of calm, collected, questioning pushback - which gets repeated - would be the sign of a strong player. Like, I can see how that might have made them nervous.

Here's one, 1756, where Banks agrees with fonti that Qg is scum, but disagrees with fonti (or at least isn't sure) that Waco and Pozzai are. What this post made me think is "Hmm, Banks led the charge against Rubicon pretty convincingly - I bet Banks could get Qg lynched today." This post makes me very interested to see if Banks was still on Qg throughout D2.

Banks doubles down on Q soon after, in 1776.

1860, more reads. Rubicon, Qg, Zenzao biggest scumreads with Rubicon red and the other two orange.

Moving on to D2:

Lots of role talk, clarifying poisoner power nuance.

Then we have this, 2745, where he asks a specific group of people what they thought about how the end of D1 went down re: Rubicon, votes moving on/off TMNT. I think if any of the scumteam, or even more so both of them, were on that list, they would feel really nervous about that post since it was something similar that started Banks down the Rubicon tunnel. People on that list: Waco, Typhon, Qg, Zenzeo, Snowvon.

Big gap here. Next post is after the whole cop/Hinata CC kerfuffle.

This post, 3253, is interesting. As Math is going down in flames, she calls out the scumteam as Waco/Pozzai/Zenzao/Typhon. Banks points out that Math is very likely tossing one of her teammates under the bus here, and I very much agree. If we're playing in the Waco/Pozzai confirmed town world, some heavy pressure on Typhon and Zenzao would be a good thing today, in my book.

Chimes in a bit later in 3269 to offer the "biased" opinion that the Bus was on Typhon. Also throws some shade at Qg based on interactions with Rubicon.

3276: comment on Typhon's post about who Waco should check. Banks: "If Tyhpon is scum, Q is one of the green checking scum roles." I think it was Tyhpon's last sentence that really piqued Banks's interest here, where he recommends a Qg check. This post is interesting.

______

I think based on a re-read of Banks, it looks to me like scum saw how he circled around then focused in on Rubicon D1, and saw the beginnings of that on one of them on D3.

I think today's focus has to be on Zenzao, Typhon, and Qg.

My gut says Qg, but it also has that squirmy feeling I was feeling mid-D2 when I was concerned TMNT was an easy target.

---------- Post automerged at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 PM ----------

That last sentence should say "D1" not D2.

 

Why do you consider me scum?

You've been avoiding a solid answer here for a while. As far as I'm aware, your sole provided evidence was VCA from mid-D1 that was wrong on top of all the other issues with that statement.

---------- Post automerged at 22:42 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

Vote: Qgqqqq

 

I do remember Math oddly hard-defending you a bunch and saying, basically, that it was a meta thing. Which I did think was odd.

Can you link to the place(s) you pushed Math to explain the townread on you?

 

Here, and here.

 

Actually...

The more I think about it, the more I think we should basically forget MathBlade was playing this game and not give her post history much, if any weight.

If Math was town (remote), then she was so mind-bogglingly, wildly off-base on some things that I can't really give credit to any actual insights she had.

If Math was scum (likely), then she was the "kick up a shitload of dust and fuck with people's heads" type scum, which means that if anyone does go diving through her tonnage of posts, there are most definitely landmines and tripwires that are designed to pull you down the wrong path.

 

Oh and the exchange starting here.

Brought to you by a Typhon readwall declaring me scum :lol: Funfunfun.

---------- Post automerged at 01:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------

Typhon readwall:
(I'm sure much of this has changed, as when I peaked ahead I saw something about a Waco-claim, but anyway.)

I don't ever plan opening posts. I mean, might be something subliminal, as I don't RNG it, but I never plan as town or scum.

Fair. Normally I'd say I don't need anything to push my postcount up, but that hasn't been true this game - not that I could know that, but anyway.

I'll give you the soft. But on TWK, two points:

a) I had no read on him when I voted him at the start.

b) My read on him moved to one of my most solid town-reads of the first half of Day 1 after one of his opening posts, which I noted at the time.

I would contest the characterization of this, though. Yes, it ended with me not being sure of it, but how is it more or less visual than an actual vote for recording purposes? This forum has no software/scraper for viewing actual votes, and (no offense meant) the actual vote counts have been rather intermittent. So why, then, is my voting or not voting more or less attempting to leave a record?

:lol: I think I've done that in this one. I generally agree that ones where people say "if I was X, so clearly I'm not" are detestable, which is why I don't go there.

I don't see how this isn't a disagreement with a behavioural matter, though. Saying "scum don't behave as X" is basically the same as saying "I, as scum, don't behave as X", except that the first is more authoritative and misleading.

Or, I notice TMNT getting mentioned and decide to reread him, and upon doing so give my own read, which results in a vote.

I don't at all disagree with your characterization (apart from the premise). I mean, would you have preferred we end the day early? How on earth would that have helped, even disregarding what we now know about TMNT?

I agree that this has been a shitty game from me, and that has inevitably translated into my reads. I disagree with you about the characterization of them, though.

I don't follow the meta of roles well, at all. I'm unfamiliar with Naruto, and it doesn't interest me enough in general to care too much about, especially with the poisoner role meaning that it's bearing on discussion is going to be minimal. Consequently, especially when I'm catching up, I don't want to have to follow that, so yes, I'd rather hear the consensus of the thread (which, btw, I could probably have got via QT if I'd had that resource to draw on) then bother to retread that ground myself.

How is that scummy? If you look back to Batmafia, for example, you'll see much of the same. I don't consider that alignment indicative.

And your last comment is entirely coloured by preconceptions, IMO.

Ooor, as we've seen now and before, we have a case of me being behind the thread and responding to posts that catch my notice in real time, rather than simply letting them slide and forget.

I was on for a TMNT lynch at this point. And I would've hammered, too, once the discussion finished, if not for the claim.

Look, I get you think I'm scum. But that doesn't mean you have to find a bad light to cast all of my posts in. You can let me have one or two good ones.

I've responded to this in the past. Again, I was wanting to kill TMNT, but didn't want him dead early, so sought a productive use for my vote.

Not a point.

Feels, as mentioned in all of my cases. Moving on.

Blahblahblah mentioned earlier about VCA/lack thereof. Moreover, this again feels like throwing shit at the wall. I do good things...but only because it leads to outcomes good for scum!me? Oookay.

I mean, I don't see how it's scummy to push for more discussion over forcing a shot out of a player who's barely following the thread. But whatever.

Kindly read the fucking post. As I've said earlier in this post, I hate it when people characterize things to try and paint themselves well, so I offered both interpretations (trying to paint the dead's leads as scummy for town!death, or leading us on OMGUS), and didn't flinch from including myself amongst fonti's top scumspects. Don't paint it as if I went all revisionist on you.

Titus actively tried to discourage discussion. I wasn't rereading the end of the day at the time, or anything, but I only remembered fonti [besides myself] as actively opposing her there.

Nor do I recall reading many reads on Rubicon in that last portion. In the hours before that, yes, but not once the No-Lynch brigade got to play. Perhaps that's just a perception issue, especially as I was excitedly catching up, but still.


Just quick pause here, as what follows seems to be more the bulk of the case (apart from the theme of the early half re: commitment), and what I want to mention is I think Typhon had some good points to make, but that in the process of rereading he got caught in the narrative of Q!scum, which has lead to a series of giving the worst possible characterization of what I'm saying, rather than having a substantive argument to back it up.

That's what I mean by throwing shit at the wall, as there seems to be a propensity of scum!reading of stuff which actually doesn't have much bearing on facts.

:facepalm This is a massive jump. Look at the actual chain of reasoning.

*Waco appears on my scum list (after, as Typhon said, a massive portion of the thread passing for my read to change...so not exactly unrealistic).
*I make a good post on scum!Waco
*So Waco and I have a back-and-forth, leading to votes against one another.

Where is the evidence for this? I mean, I'm missing any sort of "Gotcha!" moment as to it being bussing rather than any other scenario (one of us scum, both of us town), instead, nowhere here or before do you say anything about our interactions seems faked, or at all out of place, or anything. (Unless I've missed something?)

So where is the evidence? Is it just that we're both on your scum-list, and you want a reason to justify placing us together, or do you seriously think a scum!Q/scum!Waco is greater than the sum of its parts?

(That is to say, is this merely to justify your already-existing scum-reads [so more a refutation of the angst of "they can't fit together"] or is it something about our interactions that you feel paints us more scummy together than we would be apart?)

Either way, I don't really see it.

Quick note that I opposed the Citrus-scum narrative during the thick of it, so I disagree that I was just going to jump on him as the latest patsy.


(All of this was part of a Typhon wall on me, the link to which is at the start of my posts. I haven't read beyond there.)

 

FYI all, it's my birthday today, so I may not be around much at all (I'll try to pop in though!)

 

Holy shit that was an exciting deadline to miss. Bugger


Anyway, I think the idea of Math still being town after that debacle is ridiculous, and Waco/Pozzai are definitely cleared. Fuck...

Of Tobi vs. scum, I think it's more likely to be scum. Throughout that EoD there's a tad too much confidence that she is going to be bailed out/defended somehow, IMO. Also, there were one or two slight slips/almost slips that have been pointed out (Zenzao's "my friends", and so on), and something I noticed whilst rereading - at one point Math points me to post 259 in her QT, which I replied with the standard "Holy shit, huge number". I didn't read her's after Batmafia, so maybe that isn't so ridiculous, but looking back on it and especially the way she failed to respond to that comment (meant largely in jest) makes me think it could have been a scumslip on her part.

Anyway, leaning Scum!Math. Which means she's the godfather role, no? She got scanned as town, iirc.

So I think that means the way players interacted with her reveal and everything that followed is going to be quite revealing. Maybe this is simply the benefit of hindsight, but as I was reading that I thought it was a scum!Mathblade for sure from the second Pozzai claimed, and was leaning that way even earlier. Even despite my previous read on The Waco Kid, the way the claim progressed made it pretty obvious, IMO.

So I think that there's going to be some scum amongst the people who waffled on the question of Mathblade!scum.

I think I'll actually reread that again, but the people who stood out for me amongst that mess were Zenzao and Citrus for waffling back and forth. But I need to check the exact beats of when their stances changed. Citrus, particularly, seemed to be operating on bad information for a while.



Hang on, don't the scum get updates on who Naruto checks? Maybe that means that scum!Math thought that Waco couldn't possibly be



Anyway, The Waco Kid could you still respond to my post here, as it relates to your case on me?

 

Okay, that settles it !

Vote: Citrus