:facepalm Apologies, maybe I should explain it better.
It does, because his laziness is as much a part of him as is stupidity for Naruto and watching boobies is for Jiraiya. These eccentricities or problems are not necessarily bad, they only complete what we know to be that specific character. And yes, sometimes they are hindrances, but we are not looking for the perfect character.
Also, I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly Shikamaru knew there was probably another one somewhere and was trying to lure him out with those kunai. But he couldn't do anything more than that.
And why is it bad that Shikamaru didn't want to be Chuunin at the time? He knew what he wanted from life, and that wasn't it at the moment. I don't see anything bad with that. Why should he be forced to be one?
But whatever, maybe Vigilance was right.

 

If he didn't want to be chunin, then he shouldn't have been a chunin. In a world where chunin are mission squad leaders entrusted with lives, let alone the reputation of the village and money, a guy who clearly doesn't want the responsibility shouldn't get the goddamn job. Why? He won't work as hard at it and is far more likely to fuck it up. The fact that the person in question has a history of epic laziness? IRL, he would never have been promoted just because of that, intellectual brilliance be damned. But, this is Naruto...

Frankly, my hatred of Shikamaru stems from where most of my minor character hate comes from these days, as we really don't see them in canon: fanfiction. I swear, I don't think I've read a single fic where Shikamaru isn't a total boss of some sort. Apparently, being a genius with an IQ over 200 makes you the best ninja ever. Even if you only see him in the preliminaries and finals of the chunin exam, if he loses, it's because he threw the match every single time. Not because the other person was better than him.

I may or may not rectify this in my most current WIP

 

There's a difference between Jiriaya hitting on a woman and then buckling down to do serious work (see confrontation with Kisame/Itachi, battle with Pein), Naruto being socially deficient and then breaking out the badass (see Valley of the End, fight with Neji, etc...) and then Shikimaru being a lazy bastard who still somehow gets the plaudits despite his faults. We're not looking for the perfect character, but I don't think anyone here is looking for that lazy bastard who coasts and actively works against himself and ends up being a success.

... Yes? I kinda mentioned that.

Here's a thought: If you don't want to be a Chunin, then don't enter this thing called the Chunin Exams. :facepalm

Asuma might have entered them, but his team had the choice of going in. And he chose to go in.

 

Ino.

/join bandwagon

I disliked pretimeskip Shikamaru because he reminded me of my brother, constantly lazy, way too smart for his own good, and about as useful as a spork in a jail break.

 

:facepalm You probably know that it is wrong to confuse fanfiction with canon, and you probably can't help it. I'm not one to talk, since I dislike characters from fanfiction myself, but I shall have to remind you that Shikamaru has lost fights. About half of them in fact.
You may or may not consider his battle with Temari a loss or a victory, that's entirely up to you, but the he lost the following fight with a few Chuunin grunts. Was he low on chakra and fatigued? Possibly, probably, but that's no excuse in the ninja world.
He lost the fight against Tayuya, even though he'd planned things so far. Temari came and saved his ass, but he'd lost so far.
And then the Immortal Duo came, and proved that Shikamaru can't just as well come up with a plan on the fly to take out impossibly strong opponents (hint hint). Asuma bites the dust, etc.
Isn't that about as many times as we have actually seen Shikamaru?

In whichever case, I can understand some people hate some characters, and other people hate other characters. It's only natural.

Edit: Just found this piece of awesome fanart while browsing. Doesn't it look better than the red one?

 

@Hash:

You're double-standardizing.

To quote you, we have

and then showing that he does has some sense of responsibility (see his quest for revenge, see his promise to care for Asuma's child and the children of Konoha in general...).

See what I did there? I don't necessarily like Shikamaru, but hating him for being constantly lazy is wrong because... well, he isn't constantly lazy.

 

You mean the quest for revenge where he nearly got his team and Kakashi killed if not for Naruto, right? That is pretty responsible I guess.

But I'll give you the promise to look after Asuma's kid. We've seen a bit of that when Pein attacked, I think. And anyway, I was talking about Part 1. He really didn't do much in Part 2 besides talking to Naruto about surpassing their teachers and failing hard against the Akatsuki. And the practically filler fight he just had with the Gold-Silver Brothers. Which sadly, is still more impressive than what Sakura's done.

 

A

...Which is called thinking on the fly. Which is also a pre-requisite for any kind of leader in war, which includes team leader. I'd honestly prefer Naruto's spontaneous short term planning quality over the whole long term step-by-step planning that Shikamaru is supposed to have.

Kishimoto characterised Shikamaru fairly well, all things considered, because you just know he was supposed to be the Stereotyped Lazy Genius in the manga. But I think he's still unlikeable. He comes off to me more as pretentious than anything else ( I can't seem to pin point the reason exactly).

I highly dislike the whole Ino-Shika-Cho trio aswell. Both the previous one and the current one. The likeable ones among them being Chouji and Chouza. Ino is the worst. The day that frame came out where she cried for Sasuke ( after Pein fight) was the day Ino became worse than pre-timeskip Sakura and thats saying something.

And back to Shikamaru, my reasoning goes something like this : Consider a situation where you're hiring a person for a job, any job that requires a certain skill set. You'd allways hire a person who's actually intersted in the job i.e. a person eager to learn and grow within the job, over a person who has more than the required skill set but is uninterested in the job. Applying this to Shikamaru, he should've stayed a genin for life. D-rank missions/beurocracy would be his thing, he would retire without risking himself or anyone else.

 

Very well. But then, clear me up, please? Do you hate Part 1-Shikamaru, or do you hate Shikamaru? Cause the latter would sound more like... Idk, hating somebody in real life for being stupid 3 years ago when they have shown that in the mean-time, they have (at least partly) grown up?

EDIT @trooper: I think, you are stuck on Part 1-Shikamaru. IMO, he has shown in Shippuden that he does, in fact, have responsibility.

Also, what exactly do you define as 'certain skill set'? Doesn't motivation, responsibility, the stuff Shikamaru was lacking, also belong to that? Isn't the development of that what you were calling 'growing within the job'?

 

Motivation is a pre-requisite. Not a thing you grow into.

And no, I'm not stuck on pre-timeskip Shikamaru. And responsibility is entirely a different matter to having an interest and eagerness in the job. And what kind of responsibility is it that you would run off either by yourself or with your team to face off opponents you were sure to lose against ? Did Naruto run off to face Pein after Jiraiya died? I actually expected Naruto to do that, since you know, he's suposed to be the impulsive one. Shikamaru was practically sacrificing 3 Chunin (including himself) and afterwards risking 2 more very important Jounin + others for revenge ( Also remember this was a time when the village was short on Ninja because of the invasion). Thats not responsibile behaviour, its emotional.

And I don't hate Shikamaru, I dislike him. Very much. I dislike the way he gets the credit and the rep as the 'oh so intelligent one'. >_> I also don't dislike anyone for being stupid. If that was true, Naruto would have been the No 1 on the hate list.


And when I said skill set, I meant that for a universal set of Jobs. Of which being a Ninja is a sub set. Shikamaru is described as the person having a max of this. Intelligence, strategyu, etc, etc. You know, the reason they made him Chunin for. What my problem is, is that I think he's undeserving of the Chunin title. (Especially when it was not given to Naruto. >_>)

 

...

Everything is more impressive than what Sakura's done.
/filler

And my idea of Shikamaru was that his laziness ended where his official duties began.
Also, if you're going to hate Shikamaru for going after Hidan and Kakuzu, remember that all three agreed to it and technically, there were obeying the Hokage's orders. Chuunin squads were supposed to go after Hidan and Kakuzu.

Hey, who is worse, Ino or Sakura?

 

That, I agree with. Everything else... *shrug*. I guess it comes down to different interpretations. And you have to admit, Shikamaru's rep as the 'oh-so-intelligent' one isn't entirely undeserved. Though it was fun to see him getting his ass handed by his father in that one Shogi game.

 

I'm not much a fan of Shikamaru either, more because of all the nods he receives from characters in the manga for what essentially amounts to being a pretty average ninja.

I was pretty upset when he was promoted to chuunin over everyone else simply for his brains, simply because the way ninja battles work in this manga doesn't really lend itself to Shikamaru's type of strategic thinking. Sure he's smart and all, but just look where Kishimoto has Shikaku during this war. He's behind the scenes making large scale strategic decisions that a sharp mind like his and Shikamaru's are good for.

A squad leader, I've always felt, is someone who the rest of the team can rely on to coordinate and support them - a tactical thinker with a fair amount of power. Look at how the jounin have always acted in these team battle situations. They're always at the center of the action while the team members act in concert with them, mostly because ninja fights can turn into a shitstorm in the blink of an eye. In those situations you need someone who can adjust quickly, create opportunities, and capitalize on those opportunities as they appear. Shikamaru's way of thinking 200 steps ahead seems rather useless when most ninja fights occur so suddenly and the enemy's skill set is often a complete unknown.

Every major fight that Shikamaru has been in he's had information and time on his side, aside from the battle in which Asuma got killed off. It makes him seem like a good leader when in reality he can't keep his shit together when he's over the coals.

Having said that though, it seems that Kishimoto has really backpedals from the idea that chuunin are squad leaders. They're more grunt troops who are usually led by jounins.

Guess I'm just not a huge fan of all the "Shikamaru is super smart and awesome" hype that he gets in the manga and, more importantly, in fanfiction. Without aid he would have lost literally every battle he's ever been in outside the chuunin exams. Is that really someone you would want as the heart of your team?

 

I'm pretty sure the Hokage ordered them to stay in the village after Asuma died. And yes, I blame all three of them for the idiocy of attempting to combat S-rank nin with their at best, B-rank skills.

Ino. Sakura at least help killed Sasori, technically. And she had that moment of realization in the Chunin Exams. All Ino ever did was cry over Sasuke, do nothing to avenge Asuma personally and this retarded crap with the Gold-Silver Brothers. But I think we can agree that they're both pretty pathetic.

 

You mean this?

And yes, while Sakura is technically more competent, she is worse in the character department. I hate her more than Ino.

 

I meant the cutting her hair moment in the Forest of Death.

Not really. She and Ino are just as bad character wise. Sakura's just better skilled.

 

And Sakura is a pretty major character, all things considered. She should not be this poorly developed.

 

This is why I hate her more. I can usually just ignore Ino, but not Sakura, I have to see her face almost every update (not so much lately, but yeah).
Also, I cant get over the fact that Naruto likes that bitch. Dumb he may be, but who can stand for such treatment and still like the other? Clearly, only retards such as Sakura (Sasuke obsession) and Naruto (Sakura obsession). I understand that much of these reasons are overused by fanfiction, but I can't get over what a bitch she was (and still is to a lesser extend) to Naruto, and how he went back for more again and again.
I just dislike everything there is about her. Every. Single. Thing. Ino is just a hope-she-gets-killed-off character to me.

 

Kishimoto just doesn't write any female characters very well as far as I'm concerned. The fact that most of the female ninjas seem to have skillsets intended to ensure that they stay out of the way while the men do all the fighting probably doesn't help. It's one of the things that's really noticeable when comparing the anime and the manga; anime filler gives the women in the cast more combat time/competence than the manga ever does.

As for Sakura herself, I'm just disappointed that her character development got completely shot in the foot. The start of part 2 and the Gaara Rescue Arc showed that she really could be an effective character; she was more mature, actually useful in a fight, etc. The only problem is, ever since then she's been back to being a useless background character again who only gets knocked out or cries on the sidelines.

 

To be fair, ever since then most fights that the manga's focused on have been of the caliber that includes ninja like Itachi, Naruto, Pain, etc. We don't focus on the more 'typical' scale of ninja, where an apprentice to one of the Sannin would most likely be very good in a fight.

Is she the most useful character? No, but she's not as useless as most paint her to be