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Need Someone who has a Large Knowledge of LotR and the Surrounding Mythology

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Taure, Aug 28, 2007.

  1. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Okay, I just got an idea for a Harry Potter/Lord of the Rings crossover, and it is seriously kickass. However, it's only really a barebones premise at the moment, and I need someone who has a good knowledge of the LotR universe, especially The First Age, to help me come up with the finer points.

    The story will arc through all 3 ages, so you need to know your stuff.

    Things you will most definitely need to know:

    The major battles of the struggle between the Elves and Melkor.

    The migration of the Elves to Valinor: all the different factions that split off, and who went where etc.

    Knowledge of the main family trees.

    Some Elvish wouldn't go amiss either.


    So really, not much :p

    PM me if you want to see the premise, but I'm not going to post it, 'cause it really is that cool :) Lol.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2007
  2. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

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    I'm afraid I only know enough to have a decent conversation in relation to the LotR Trilogy and Silmarillion, with some exact here and there but not enough to go into uber detail. I reply to this only to offer http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.asp if you ever need to personally look something up.
    Think of it as the Lexicon of LotR though I think this one came first.
     
  3. Gullible

    Gullible Headmaster

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    Completely offtopic: Taure, did you ever finish Mysteries of the Department?
     
  4. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I wrote half of the last chapter, but stopped upon realising that the story sucked and needed a total re-write with double the amount of description. :)

    For your knowledge, the Killer was the fat deputy head of the Department, who was planning to use the spaceship to drop the bomb on a muggle city. Harry would prevent it, and the spaceship would crash someone in America, and it would end with Harry being sent to Azkaban, and the Deputy Head getting away with it. There was a sequel planned too.
     
  5. Palver

    Palver High Inquisitor

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    I sincerely hope you are not abandoning "The Return".

    On a related note - who the hell are Melkor? I am off to the wikipedia.

    Edit: Aahh..Melkor as a Morgoth. Where Harry is in all of this? :-/
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2007
  6. BioPlague

    BioPlague The Senate DLP Supporter

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    I am the foremost on Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion and Tolkien's Legendarium in general (at DLP). There is not another within hundreds of internet miles who can challenge such a claim!

    "As a Morgoth", Palver -- such a comment in the presence of Tolkien purists would lead to your death! Hewn!

    Melkor was once a Vala and a metaphorical brother to Manwe. The two were the "strongest" in the eyes of Eru, the creator of Ea. There were 13 others like them (that are known to have entered the world and are therefore bound to it till its destruction).

    Together, they were demi-Gods, the Valar - the Angelic Powers - and helped create the world.

    Melkor was a jackass however, and preferred to ruin everyone's shit; what everyone created beautifully, he marred in some way. Eventually, he just became a massive dickhead and corrupted many Maiar (beings a step lower than the Valar in power, but of the same 'charge' or 'power' so to speak) into service as Balrogs and various other beasties.

    Maiar are apart of groups, so to speak - they take tutelage/companionship under a Vala and sort of learn from them. The Smith, a Vala, whose name is Aule (add umlaut to e) taught to Sauron, a Maia much of... smithing obviously. And of creating things - hint, it starts with an r and ends with an ing.

    Sauron was corrupted by Melkor; there isn't much said about this, except that Nienna the Vala of Emo-Gothing felt pity for both, which led to Melkor being released the first time.

    Either way, Melkor took the name Morgoth, got owned eventually and Sauron took over as Supreme Evil Overlord. The only difference between the two is that Morgoth owned every mother fucker and was defeated by the Vala when two people representing Elves and Men (they were Half-Elven) pleaded with Manwe to aid them.

    Sauron was of the same power as Olorin (Gandalf), though obviously stronger but Gandalf with a few other Maiar could have owned Sauron if they tried. But that wasn't the task appointed them. That's often a confusing thing to people who read the LOTR.

    Why didn't Gandalf the White not just own Sauron if they were of the same race? Gandalf is an emissary; he cannot directly defeat anyone. His job is to counsel and guide the Free People to make their own decisions.

    Just a note: I'm not adding accents or umlauts, bitches.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2007
  7. Gullible

    Gullible Headmaster

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    So obviously copied and pasted from wiki. ;)
     
  8. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Also, the Valar stuck the Istari in human bodies which limited their powers compared with their natural maiar states, did they not? So Sauron was still a being of spirit, whereas Gandalf et all were trapped in human bodies.
     
  9. BioPlague

    BioPlague The Senate DLP Supporter

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    True on the first part; half-right on the second. Sauron possessed every power save the ability to fool anyone again like he had in the Second Age. When Numenor was destroyed, Sauron was destroyed with it, though of course, Sauron could never truly be destroyed.

    It was only his body, which was of course, his angelic body. So no longer could he deceive Elves or Men with his looks.

    I'd consider it a great power, really - he was thus confined to a much grimmer appearance.
     
  10. Dark Syaoran

    Dark Syaoran Golden Patronus Admin

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    Hm. A decent LotR's crossover, maybe. Only been one of those.

    YOU SHALL NOT PASS!
     
  11. The Mysterious Nobody

    The Mysterious Nobody Auror

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    I'm the only one who entered this thread because in the main page you could only read "Need someone who has a Large..."?

    Me and my dirty mind...
     
  12. Kardikek

    Kardikek Groundskeeper

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    I've obsessed enough about years of the tree and the first age to last me a lifetime. So yeah, if you need any help I wouldn't mind at all.

    There is never stated anywhere just what exactly a maiar was or wasn't capable of, merely which valar they served under and got taught from.
    The power to take the shapes of others seems to be a gift not unique but not often mentioned except for valar themselves. Being taught under Aulë he was a great smith although not the greatest. Sauron certainly did not possess any power of creation, something only Valar themselves could do or Ilúvatar himself. He could only pervert and destroy.
    Him being a maiar did not make him invincible either. Depending on how you intepret things, Balrogs, corrupted maiar with an affinity towards fire were killed by both the power and elves.

    First age is where all the real fighting happens anyway, I mean there is something badass about someone riding to the literal gates of hell challenging Morgoth himself. Sauron's nothing I tell you!
     
  13. BioPlague

    BioPlague The Senate DLP Supporter

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    There is no interpretation. Glorfindel was nicknamed the Balrog-Slayer.

    Power never means invincibility. Melkor was the 2nd Strongest Vala and he was owned by the brute strength of Tulkas (another Vala) when he entered the world.

    Maiar are weaker than the Valar and cannot shape the world and actually build it with their gift. Both Valar and Maiar are Ainur but the distinction between the two is great. Maiar come off as pawns - several are used as vessels of the Sun and Moon, more are used as emissaries and still others are used as Balrog and other beasties.

    The Valar come off as Gods (though this is unacceptable to those who view Tolkien's works as Christian) and the Maiar the Archangels. Some interpret them both as Angelic, the Valar Archangels and the Maiar of varying orders and levels depending on what shape they can take.

    It's murky but needless to say, a Maiar can do many things - Melian could obscure an entire city and protect it (the Girdle), Sauron could deceive, Balrogs can be right fucking nasty. But they're definitely weaker.

    Valar just prefer not to meddle with Eru's gifts (Gift of Man, Free Will, etc). Otherwise, they could just own everyone.

    And the Maiar in the Lord of the Rings have been constrained to human form and have had most of their power removed. This is done due to past failings when the Angelic powers mingled with Humans and Elves in Middle-Earth.
     
  14. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    Curse of man

    One topic of Debate I have always loved is what would of happened if Gandalf had taken the one ring. If he had then been able to snap the power restraints on him and call his full power and then the power of the ring he could very well be the most powerful non Valar in Ea. When Sauron put it on it just amplified and refined his power. But his power was diminished with the creation of the ring. Gandalf would have his natural full power and then part of Saurons. Same goes for the other Wizards.
     
  15. Hadoren

    Hadoren High Inquisitor

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    Naw, the Valar are just assholes.

    One way for the whole Lord of the Rings novels to be skipped: go to the Havens with the Ring, sail to Valinor, and have Aule smack that piece of jewelry into pieces. Sauron's defeated, everybody's happy. But, no, the Valar don't want to interfere.
     
  16. Duke of Rothwood

    Duke of Rothwood Professor

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    I agree with the rest, but this I believe is wrong. Feanor gave Melkor the name Morgoth after he stole the simirails. Morgoth means something like betrayer in quenya (old high elvish).

    Also, as you may have guessed from the above, I believe that I fit all your requirements Taure, and I would be willing to help you out if you still need a person.
     
  17. BioPlague

    BioPlague The Senate DLP Supporter

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    I mean it in the same way that Olorin took Gandalf. Olorin refers to himself as Stormcrow, Gandalf and Mithrandir and is called that in the Lord of the Rings. I imagine the same can be said of Morgoth as several evil people refer to him as Morgoth and not Melkor.
     
  18. Kardikek

    Kardikek Groundskeeper

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    Usually it's just someone proclaiming; You shall henceforth be named ___! And then everyone just doing that. Not like the people it involves seems to have a say in the matter.
     
  19. Taure

    Taure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I think Bio's point is that not only did that happen, but Melkor also began to call himself Morgoth - it wasn't just a name other's gave him, but one that he took on as his own.
     
  20. MysterioX

    MysterioX Professor

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    It's great to see one more DLP member starting another HP/Lotr crossover.
    I wish you the best of luck.
     
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