Sorry for this, but, really?

Link: https://www.tor.com/2017/10/17/oathbringer-by-brandon-sanderson-chapters-22-24/

"I am no philosopher, to intrigue you with piercing questions."

"I am no poet, to delight you with clever allusions."

"I have no doubt that you are smarter than I am. I can only relate what happened, what I have done, and then let you draw conclusions."

But, why is this going on for 24+ chapters? The other books had chapter quotes that provided world-building information. Why is Sanderson wasting space writing edgy inanity? How did this stuff get through the editing process? It provides nothing, it does nothing, it has no impact on the story. It doesn't even build Jasnah's character after the 3rd chapter quote. We get it, Jasnah is a humble heretic. Does the 10,000 page Stormlight Archive really need to be 10,001?

Sanderson's novellas are good and great. His epic fantasies are becoming trash.

P.S. is there a method of editing/merging posts a week later?

 

I think Dalinar is the 'writer' of the quotes, not Jasnah.

 

I mean, you could be right, but we're 25 chapters into a 139 chapter book. It's probably too early to conclude the quotes have no impact on the story, or even that the author is Jasnah. (Sanderson has a history of tricking the reader into thinking the chapter quotes come from the wrong character.)

 

You get way too hung up on this.

 

I meant to post this yesterday, but new chapters dropped: Chapters XXV, XXVI, XXVII

I was disappointed by the lack of Kaladin material, but I did think that Shallan's investigation of the bowels of Urithiru might actually end up being the better story. The strange demon thing that imitates murders and violence is really intriguing.

On the Dalanar front, I'm beginning to think that Dalanar never loved his wife. Which leads to the question: If his wish to the Nightwatcher wasn't to take away the pain of losing the woman he loved, because he didn't, then what was it?

Oh, and for @Swirly Mango: I think those quotes are going to turn out to be by Dalanar himself, so they might actually have a lot of meaning, despite your constant grousing.

 

This is a stupid thing, but...

It's Dalinar.

 

Shallan can basically make animation with her powers. That's pretty cool. I could easily picture the theater scene playing out in a movie.

Her storyline is beginning to intrigue me.

Amaram still being relevant to the story is a bit annoying to be honest. For now it doesn't make sense why he'd just be handed a princedom just like that, especially from an apparently cunning woman.

I still don't like Dalinar's flashback. This entire bloodthirsty warrior thing is so cliche. I just hope that he ends up being Odium's champion though.

 

This week's chapters: Chapter XXVIII, XXIX, XXX

Spoiler

I think the book is really picking up. I miss the focus on Kaladin, but I think he might feature more prominently in later Acts of the books. For now, I'm really interested in the fact that we just met one of the Unmade.

 

ebook should be on sale in an hour or so, assuming you haven't bribed your local bookstore into giving you a copy early. Hype!

 

I am the living embodiment of hype, but first I need to finish my WoR reread. And then I need to tackle Edgedancer.

Maybe I'll take a sick day.

 

You fool! Gotta get your reread ducks in a row a week before release.

edit:

Also, got my copy read to go. Goodbye, earth, you're dead to me for the next 24 hours.

 

Thoughts?/Discussion

Spoiler

Not sure how to sum it all up.
I felt like too much of the book was 'Mental issues feat. Shallan & Dalinar, with guest appearance by Kaladin.
I also thought that there were too many Dalinar flashback chapters, causing a heap of bloat. And I can't stand Wit/Cosmere wank.

Upsides were Syl, who is the best character despite shipping Kaladin/Shallan. Also happy that Kaladin/Shallan is put to rest.

I didn't think the secret behind the Recreance was that big of a deal.

I'm just not sure what the whole book really accomplished. I understand that it's a big fucking series with a billion volumes planned, so the conflict can't, and shouldn't be resolved in one book, but I want to see more victories without it being undermined. I want to see the coalition get something done through proper planning, cohesion and being awesome. Instead its just 'oh any victory is going to be fucked because Taragavian is going to backstab you non-stop'.

I get that stacking the odds against them, and then having the Radiants triumphing with clutch moments can be good story telling, but I guess I just want it to be more balanced.

 

I think that showing Szeth choose to follow Dalinar before Odium claimed him was a dead giveaway that he would remain with the "good guys".

I also don't like the Kaladin parts at all. Except at the end when he doesnt end up with Shallan.

Also, the Recreance part was stupid. And a little confusing. Did they bring the gods and spren with them too?

And if so why are the parshmen following Odium now?

Let's hope in future books we follow Daliner less, we also need more Lift.

 

It seems to me while the oath pact keeps odium and his void spren away, his servants remained behind. We know the thrill and death rattles were present before the return of the last herald. So for some reason ,they were exempt from this. If they remained, why did some power not attempt to contain them all. The lack of their influence on the world would have kept the desolation back more.

In this series, ten has been repeated a lot, yet the servants of odium don't share this number. I wonder if the fused are the result of the power that would have made a full set of servants was instead divided amongst them. If power can be divided, it can also be united. So the good guys could make a new servant to eliminate a threat.

The bond smiths are a strange order, apparent there can only be three. Do we know if that includes the wielded of the honor blade of the bond smith herald? So there could be three or two knight radiant in fact.

 

Odd, I loved the book for every reason you disliked it.

My rating - 9/10. 1 point off for not enough Kaladin. But other than that I think Sanderson fucking nailed it. This was meant to be a Dalinar book, and he delivered. The Blackthorn was just something abstract in the first two volumes. Here we got to see, and understand, the reputation Dalinar earned through blood, sweat, and cruel tears. It was all necessary.

 

Spoiler

It's seems that some if not most spren were already in Roshar before any shards arrived there. It's also likely that the parshendi civilization predates the shards arrival too.

In any case the thing with the Recreance is this: because of surge-like powers (voidbringing?) humans caused a cataclysm in their home world and went to Roshar, bringing along Odium with them.
A Radiant has access to very similar powers and if they did not break their oaths outright when finding out they are the 'invaders' they did so afterwards, afraid of triggering another world shattering event. (i.e. ultimately they 'let go' of the powers for fear).

I'm not sure about the shift from Odium to Honor as the personification of god for humans. Probably a gradual change? You can still see thing's like the Thayleen's Passions, which by my best guess are remnants of Odium's religions.

For the parshendi it has mostly do to with betrayal/vengenance:
The spren 'chose' humans for the Nahel bond, the same humans that they took in as refugees and turned against them at some point in the past. Not to mention that the parshendi 'ancients' are immortals and are heavily under the influence of Odium because they were trapped together for millenia in a cycle of pain and death.
The parshendi gemhearts might also play a role here. Szeth mentions back in WoK that the parshendi can hold stormlight indefinitely and before dying Galivar hands an odd orb that seems to absorb light to him. My pet theory is that Galivar's orb was a parshendi gemheart used to trap a voidspren/fused, perhaps in a similar way in which Dalinar trapped the thrill in the huge ruby thing.
In any case if the parshendi do possess perfect gemhearts, it seems likely to me that humans could have started hunting for these in the past.

 

I wonder if the sons of honor discovered a cashe of gemstones, like the one King gavilar had when he died. I doubt very many, every one is important to the war. szeth said to have placed the one he carried in Jah Kaved, and one of these creatures is stuck around the horn eater peaks. The thing is that creature is having an effect on the world, so that implies if contained, it is not fully done.

 

I finally finished my WoR reread and knocked out Edgedancer immediately after. Forgot how good WoR was.

I am so pumped to read OB that I can barely sit still long enough to actually start it.

 

Alrighty then.

I finished it yesterday and took a day to meditate over whether I had anything to say about the book.

Brandon Sanderson has reached a point (and I think it happened a few years before Oathbringer) where editors are told to take it easy, because anything he puts out will sell. Among professionally published fiction, this is the most bloated and boring epic fantasy I've ever read. I think that people who like this book are deceived by the fact that the end of the book (which by itself is about the length of Philosopher's Stone and still full of bloat) accelerates to a breakneck pace compared to the slog of everything that had come before it, and readers leave the book with the impression of the Battle of Thaylen Field instead of the Book Where Dalinar Spends Most Of His Time In Meetings. And the meetings aren't interesting anyway.

I maintain my opinion that all the interludes are unnecessary crap. I haven't read a single one and I challenge anyone willing to point me to a single crumb of information in any of them that is necessary to my understanding of the world or the plot. I really can't wrap my head around people defending the interludes, especially here on DLP, where we ridicule bloat and praise efficient worldbuilding.

Sanderson has a habit of repeating things to the point of insulting the reader. "Unite them". Yes, I understood it the first time. Dalinar has done bad things and feels bad about it and is drinking again. Yes, I got that, didn't need it pointed out to me from 14 POVs, 13 of which are tertiary background-of-the-background characters.

Which brings me to the next point. There are too many POVs. Navani, Renarin, Jasnah, Adolin, Lift, Taravangian, Teft, Wit and probably ten more I'm forgetting. Nothing in any of their POVs moved the story or added to the world, nothing in there that couldn't have been told just as well or better from main POVs of Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar. Although I honestly don't know if I would want to spend more time with any of them either, because all three spend 90% of the book whining or talking about boring things or being depressed, which does not make for engaging reading.

Sanderson fails at conveying some of the things he intended in this book, and "fixes" that later by stating by fiat that this or that happened.

Apparently, there was supposed to be some love triangle between Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin, but I didn't notice it between all the time Kaladin spent mentally constipated and the time Shallan spent trying to convince me that playing spy in 2 disguises (where Radiant had bigger tits and Veil liked to drink with the boys) was threatening to make her as mentally constipated as Kaladin.

Odium fails to be an interesting villain. I gather that he's apparently trapped on Roshar and can't get out until... what? He came here with humans (First Desolation) and now can't leave? What is his goal? At least Torol Sadeas was a prick I could understand. Meridas Amaram is a pale imitation of Torol's brand of dickery.

I don't at all understand the adoration of Lift. She's a bone dry "quirky teen girl" with weirdly written dialogue.

I think the one time I clicked with a character was when Szeth wanted to proceed immediately to the Third Ideal, he sounded like he was done with boring shit, but in a polite way. Yes. That's some agency. But then this Nale dude shuts him down, and the payoff of this is that Skybreakers join Odium, the impact of which was about zero, because they didn't seem to fight in the Battle of Thaylen Field, so what's the point? "We're on the side of the evil god now, but we're gonna sit this one out, we wouldn't want the main cast to be faced with any peril and possibly lose a battle". Which, btw, is the third Final Battle in as many books which the good guys win against apparently overwhelming odds because one of the Super Saiyans has a superpower epiphany at a relevant plot moment.

The deaths in the book are meaningless. Elhokar, his wife, the autistic Herald King, Amaram... those are all background characters at best, and their deaths don't sell me on the idea that the Apocalypse is in progress. Also, apparently the apocalypse is the OG owners of the world drafting an army out of recently-unslaved shoemakers, farmers and floor sweepers and treating captured humans in accordance with the Geneva Convention rules on POWs. Call me skeptical, but I'm not really feeling the impending doom---especially given that Dalinar has time to sit in mind-numbingly boring meetings where nothing interesting is discussed, more like they keep talking about the need to talk about important things, and quite often the POV character in those meetings complains about having to attend them. The impending doom is taking its sweet time to impend.

If this book had been cleaved in half by an editor, it would have started to approach being engaging.

 

I enjoyed Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, and Sanderson had some some very original and impressive worldbuilding in the Stormlight Archive. However, Scott is not wrong that the story can drag, and I'm not sure if I'm capable, let alone desirious, of sitting through 10 more books of this. Give me some Joe Abercrombie any day.