My ASOIAF-fu is still weak, so I would like to ask a few questions. Is there any difference between being page and squire ?

And is it even possible for Lord Commander of Kingsguard to take anyone as squire ? He protects royal family day and night and he is member of Small Council. Would he have even time for Jon ?

 

There are three stages to Knighthood. Being a Page, Squiring, and then becoming a full fledged Knight. A Page is just a simple errand runner, doing small minor things. Most pages are small boys, about 8-12. This is why they get stuck with the small stuff - They're too young to do much else. At this point, they tend to get taught the most basic of the basics. Riding a horse, how to joust, etc.

A Squire is when they're older and can handle harder tasks. They learn how to care for weapons and their training becomes more focused on actual combat, as well as Chivalry.

A Knight is a Knight is a Knight.

And yes, he'd probably be able to have time to train Jon. There's more than one person in the Kingsguard and it's not as if he has to oversee all of Jon's training himself. Plenty of Lords, who tend to be busy people, take on squires and they usually recruit help from their household. Barristan could probably make use of others in the Red Keep, for when he's unavailable.

 

Are you gonna keep Jon as an Old God follower? If Barristan takes him in when he's 8, then he'll still have spent a long time in the North and probably still have a lot of Northern values.

Bran will also probably love Jon, squire to Ser Barristan the Bold.

 

I'll probably leave it up to players to choose in Character Creation.

And yep. Bran'll be so jelly. :3

 

Perhaps do the character creation in several steps? Players are often overwhelmed by too many choices and it's a bitch for the GM to get everything straight afterwards.

 

I agree 100% with this. Though the baby!character gets tedious to read, it makes things much easier for a GM.

 

It would be great if we could (perhaps during some tourney in KL) befriend our kin, Edric Dayne. He is the one who could ask Robert to legitimize us, correct ?

Edit: Well after we will find out info about our parents, I suppose.

 

It doesn't have to be babydom for Jon.

Perhaps do years 0-5 in one update and 5-8 in the next (with an interlude about Jon leaving Winterfell and how he feels about the whole squire-thing) and finally 8-12 (and impressions about KL and its people + character changes).

Closest social contacts, education and religious belief can be squeezed into all that, with rough personality traits.

By age 12 Jon would probably roughly know what he wants to do with his life and where. Who knows, perhaps he dislikes KL and wants to return to the North as an accomplished knight? Or go on adventures in Essos? All possible.

 

On Character Creation: I'll probably separate it into 3 chunks. Part 1 Childhood, Part 2 Childhood and then Page/Squiring for Barristan. That'll make each part of Character equal to 4 years.

On Legitimization: It's possible, though you most likely would need confirmation on your Dayne heritage. That said, a friendship with Edric as soon as possible would make getting legitimized easier later on.

Though a question. If Edric asks for the Legitimization, then Jon would only be legitimized as a Dayne, correct? He'd need Ned to ask for Legitimization as well, to get recognized as a Stark, too, right? (Which wouldn't happen, because Catelyn is a bitch, and Jon would then be first in line to inherit Winterfell, over Robb)

Just making sure I have a handle on this, as if it's not what I think, then getting Legitimized would probably be harder for you guy's than otherwise would be.

 

See, the thing is, Jon's parentage is going to pop up. No doubt Selmy will question him about what he knows of his mother and such. Kind of improbable he won't find out about Ashara being his mother.

And as for legitimization, the Stark angle seems highly implausible, what with Catelyn still being alive at the time, while the Dayne-only seems more likely. Provided he forms a good relationship with the living Daynes, that is.

 

I THINK it is possible to legitimize non-baseborn bastard (like Jon) as member of one of noble houses of parents (so Stark OR Dayne) but not as member of both houses, so being Stark AND Dayne is not possible.

Lord/Lady of noble house (so Ned Stark/Edric Dayne*) asks King for legitimization and King grants it in royal decree.

My opinion only, it could be incorrect.

* Though he is still underage, so maybe his regent ?

 

Underage?:facepalm

----

Jon being oblivious about his mother is rather dumb in this instance. In the books we're teased and left wondering and the like. If he's Ashara's then it clean deal, no sense to dramatize it needlessly.

 

But Westeros' inheritance laws are kind of strange. I can't see Jon wanting to be legitimized as a Dayne. His roots are Northern and his links to the Daynes would be tenuous at best.

But legitimizing Jon as a Stark would be possible, I believe. Let's say that someone makes Jon think about that. If he'd come to the point that he asks Ned to do so and if King Robert agrees to do it - which would be IC for Robert - then Ned could still declare that Jon would come last in the line of inheritance (according to the wiki that's possible), after all male children that came from the Ned-Cat marriage. With Jon so far in the South, three Stark male kids in Winterfell and Jon asking, Ned might actually do it.

 

See, this is why I asked. Best to make sure I have a good idea of what a Legitimization entails, in Westeros.

As far as Jon's opinion on whether he wants to be a Dayne or a Stark...well, that seems like it's something that can be influenced by what options Player pick. That said, I do see him getting Legitimized as a Stark by Ned highly unlikely. It's possible Robb might legitimize him in his will like he did Canon, depending on your rapport with him, though.

It all depends and a lot of this is far away.

But yeah, having to choose between being a Stark or a Dayne seems like one of those kinds of choices. You know the kind I'm talking about. They both have their pros and cons, neither immediately apparent and you can only pick one. Sounds like a good thing for you guy' to settle among yourselves!

XD

 

Well, not seen as a grown man until he is 16, age of majority from wikia. Even in CK II, reigning characters until 16 have regents.

And I said in my first post in this thread that I am not that knowledgeable about ASOIAF.

 

As I see it, you're the GM and can make any inheritance possible that you like. ASOIAF is a fantasy setting, after all. Also, if Ned does get the idea to legitimize Jon someday, then if he definitely says how the line of inheritance will go and Robert as king agrees to that, then I don't see the problem. Nobody will tell Robert "no". He's the king.


Also, the simple setting of your quest will derail canon considerably. Jon will be in KL and will see that Joffrey's a little crazy bastard. He won't want to have his sister marry Joffrey once he hears about the marriage idea and will warn Ned. Ned would be the kind of guy to put Sansa's happiness above political gain.

 

Ahem, Robb was fourteen when he was proclaimed King in the North. Cersei was the one who insisted on Regent title/position. There was even a wedding between two babies whose parents spoke the vows for them to secure an alliance during the Wo5K, IIRC.

This whole underage thing is iffy at best.

 

I always thought Robb was at least fifteen, with his birth in 283 AC and proclamation in (late ?) 298 AC, but you could be right about his age and matter of age of majority/being underage in Westeros and I will not argue further.

 

Wait. You can just alter the line of succession?

Jon is an acknowledged bastard, if he gets legitimized then he is the eldest trueborn son of Ned Stark. He would inherit.

If you can just alter the line, why would Sam have to be sent to the Watch? His father could have just stuck him at the end of the line.


I don't see why he would want to be a Dayne though.

 

Because Randyll Tarly is an asshole who doesn't want other lords to know just how weak/pathetic (at the time) of a son he has, heir or not.