100% agreed.
but in the event of having to choose between a harem or a slash story, the harem get's my vote every time.

 

Suicide remains a valid option.

 

I'd rather find and kill the writer.


EDIT: This might seem picky but I hate I hate it when a writer either has clearly never read the books, or watched the movies far too many times that they don't remember them.

It really shows when they start writing out of the movie script, and honestly it doesn't read well. The movies are a bit more of a comedy than a serious story so when you try and write your serious fic and include movie lines it just sucks.

Also the movies just sucked for the most part in general and you should never use them as reference when writing...

 

Debatable. I greatly enjoyed all of the movies (aside from the first one) and thought that they were good representations of the books. Hell, I even liked Deathly Hallows Part 1 (still haven't seen Part 2... I need to rectify that) while I absolutely loathe, loathe, loathe Deathly Hallows the book.

 

I liked them from a non serious point of view. They ARE funny and a bit of fun to watch. But the inconsistencies and extremely fast pacing just kill me if I try to take it seriously.

Didn't even go to see the Deathly Hallows. Was still too bitter about Ginny, and the 6th disappointed me in theatre anyway.

---------- Post automerged 27th Aug 2014 at 07:18 AM ---------- Previous post was 26th Aug 2014 at 11:02 AM ----------

Double post because I want to bump (is that allowed?).

I'm really over characters that feel they are entitled to know things, just because they want to know, AND THEN THEY GET TOLD. Harry is guilty of this in most fics but I let it slide because him not knowing things is kind of boring (unless it's really important to the plot that he didn't know for some reason). But the worst offender is probably fanon Hermione.

I've seen FAR too often something along the lines of, Harry goes and does something or knows something cool, Hermione finds out he did this/knows this. Then "glares at him making Harry wonder why he could face down Voldemort but could not stand against a X year old girl". Before completely folding and telling her everything. This can go for a lot of characters, I just see it with Hermione ALL the time. It happens with every single LI Harry ever gets though.

No, you do not deserve to know things just because you want to/like knowledge. There is probably a good reason to not telling people things, there's a reason Dumbledore keeps so many secrets, really good reasons. Whether it be a future plan to do something or just some obscure magic that's quite useful. Why would you go blabbing about not very well known magic? Do you want an advantage or not? Even to your friends. Some things are best kept secret, stop falling over when the first person asks you to explain yourself and spilling your guts. Like wise, there are very good reasons why you shouldn't tell even your friends what you're planning to do (talking usually about war related plans), they might mess it up by giving something away, or you they'll worry and why do that to them. That goes for mostly Harry, but even Dumbledore.

There's a lot of good reasons for Dumbledore to tell Harry things (believe it or not NOT when he's 11, 12, even 13). But I'd like to read something once, where Dumbledore doesn't tell him things for a really good reason, whether it's because of Harry's reaction to it or whatever you come up with. A great example of this (the only thing most writers seem to follow canon with) is why Snape defected. Harry does not NEED to know that, he doesn't need to know why he can trust him. If he trusts Dumbledore then he should trust Dumbledore's word that Snape can be trusted, if not, that's fine. He doesn't NEED to, Snape is Dumbledore's pet, not his, and in the end it really doesn't matter if he does or not.


EDIT: Wow, cannot double post, that's actually ...nice.

 

I imagine it might realistically go something like this (in OotP, during Occlumency lessons):

Harry: "I want to know X."
Snape: "Potter, why are you here?"
Harry: "To learn occlumency?"
S.: "And why do you need to learn it?"
H: "So I can keep LV out of my head."
S: "And have you succeeded in that?"
H: "No..."
S: "Indeed, then tell me, you dimwitted child, does it really strike you as a good idea to tell you all the secrets the Dark Lord dearly wants to know?"
H: "Yes?"

 

Is that a passage out of the book? It's been a long time since I read them, but it certainly seems like it could be. The characters seem...in character.

 

Nah Snape is out of character, no way he could be that polite or clear about it.

 

Like I said it's been a while, but I don't think Snape became a teenager that just started yelling insults at Harry every time he spoke to him. I feel like the way he insulted him while still making himself sound superior and intelligent was quite in character.


EDIT: I really don't remember, maybe I should go back and re read them, I'm not even sure I remember what 'in character' is for most of the characters any more. Too many years of fanfiction.

 

Incompetent evil or 'greater good' Dumbledore

So you've got this Dumbledore who's an evil mastermind planing to take over the world or 'ends justify the means' Dumbledore trying to sacrifice Harry on the altar of Voldemort, and Harry just happens to stumble across this vital information - commonly because Harry overhears Dumbledore speaking about the plan to his evil lackey Snape/Molly/Ron/Ginny or because Dumbledore forgot that Harry might just check up on his bank account and notice trillions of galleons missing.
Harry then completely outwits Dumbledore because he's actually an idiot and not an evil genius at all and it's revealed to everyone that the "Leader of the light" is actually just as bad as Dumbledore.

I like evil/MOB Dumbledore stories but so so often the story falls flat on its face because of precisely this. When it's revealed that Dumbledore isn't a very nice person I'd like it to actually be unexpected and a surprise rather than some tired rehash where Harry outwits the man in a game of worlds and he accidentally spills how evil he is in front of witnesses.

Incompetent Deatheaters and Voldemort is a pet hate of mine too.Sure, you can have Deatheater mooks that die by the dozen but please don't write inner-circle Deatheaters like Malfoy, Snape, Lestrange, MacNair and Crouch Jnr like that. Let alone write Voldemort himself like a Disney villain.

Don't write evil internal monologues either.

 

It doesn't matter in canon whether Harry trusts Snape or not. There was a pretty good story in wba where Harry killed Snape (with a lot of help from a hippogriff) as Snape was fleeing the castle after Dumbledore's death. Shit rapidly went downhill after that. Harry trusting Snape could have prevented a shitload of badness.

If Snape was a halfway decent person who didn't treat Harry like shit every chance he got, then Dumbledore's 'I trust professor Shape and so should you' argument would carry a lot more weight. Snape's behavior undermines everything that AD tells Harry, and I've never understood why AD didn't acknowledge that to Harry.

 

Continuing on the manipulative/evil Dumbledore and indy!Harry peeves theme:

Hypocritical Harry

In these fics, you often have this occurring:

1. Harry practices the dark arts to the disapproval of Dumbledore/The Order. He justifies the use of the dark arts by saying that the end justifies the means: that war necessitates certain evils.

2. Harry discovers that Dumbledore plans to sacrifice him and criticises Dumbledore for it, saying that the ends do not justify the means.

So the ends justify the means, unless those ends are bad for Harry personally, in which case they're not justified. Now this level of hypocrisy is realistic enough, as it's basic human selfishness, but it doesn't make a compelling protagonist, nor does it justify a load of people suddenly thinking Harry a visionary.

And to add insult to injury, these two facts are the complete reverse of canon. In canon, the Order was trying to convince Harry to use deadly force, which he rejected. In canon, Dumbledore planned for Harry to survive his sacrifice, and made it so that the sacrifice was Harry's own choice. The option of running away remained to him -- McGonagall even tried to push it on him.

Normally diverging from canon is SOP in fanfiction and it's not a problem, but here it's just annoying, because so often the authors of indy!Harry fics use them as a thinly veiled attack on canon. They retcon canon, then use their retcon version of events to criticise canon Dumbledore etc. Which is just infuriating.

Incompetent Dumbledore

So, fine, you've decided to make Dumbledore evil. But at the same time he gets downgraded to having an IQ of 75. Harry outsmarts him at every turn, verbally and magically. Dumbledore uses the most transparently stupid arguments and rationalisations to himself, nor is he ever able to adapt to new realities. When Harry beats him once, he just keeps trying the same shit, apparently completely forgetting Harry's new abilities.

Not to mention that Dumbledore just seems to perform random actions that do nothing to further his cause. Stealing Harry's money, for example... how does that help Dumbledore defeat Voldemort?

Motiveless Dumbledore

Connected to Dumbledore's incompetence. In so many of these fics, Dumbledore doesn't seem to have any real goal, nor any motive for any of his actions. His entire purpose is to make Harry miserable. He doesn't do anything else.

De jure > de facto

Inevitably Harry inherits a load of titles which give him legal power against Dumbledore. And yet... this shouldn't really matter. Dumbledore has never cared too much what the law says. And yet suddenly Harry's legal power is able to completely trump Dumbledore's de facto power of his wand.

Inhuman Dumbledore

These fics completely remove all semblance of humanity from Dumbledore. He has no capacity for compassion or friendship or laughter or joy. He's just a "make Harry miserable" machine.

Epic abuse

In canon, Harry:

1 Has a small bedroom without a window
2 Is fed but doesn't get to eat his fill
3 Has strict punishments
4 Is bullied at school
5 Has guardians who belittle him and give him a bad reputation

Numbers 1 and 2 are no different to being poor. Number 3 is common enough for those with strict parents who believe in traditional (archaic) parenting. Number 4 is a common experience to many children.

Harry's home situation is not so unusual in terms of what he experiences. What makes it so deplorable aren't the facts of his situation, but rather the Dursley's attitude. They're rich enough to provide him with a better lifestyle, but instead deliberately give him the lifestyle of someone much poorer. They don't step in to prevent bullying but rather actively encourage it. Point number 5 reinforces this.

It's completely unnecessary to go beyond this and heap superabuse on Harry. The Dursleys are evil enough as it is. Adding superabuse is just another way these authors retcon canon to make it more absurd, then criticise canon on the basis of their fanon.

I could go on. In fact, even having listed these faults, I feel like I still haven't got to the meat of why the manipulative Dumbledore genre feels so wrong to me. The completely false nature of how the characters have all been reprogrammed and rearranged to generate false conflict which the author resolves not by Harry being great, but by everyone else being retarded. Or just by having Harry inherit game breaking powers that he doesn't deserve.

Basically, classic indy!Harry stories feel like the author has all the characters under the imperius curse. Thus, when a character does something bad to Harry, you don't get angry at that character on Harry's behalf, you get angry at the person controlling the situation, making people act in ways they normally wouldn't: the author.

 

A cupboard under the stairs doesn't qualify as a bedroom simply because you put a cot/mattress in it.

 

Also:

- Chased up a tree by a bulldog, with the full approval of Vernon and Petunia.
- Attempted braining with a frying pan. Thanks aunt Petunia.
- Bars on the window? For what?
- Cat flap (honestly don't recall if this is canon)

I have to agree with Taure: "The Dursleys are evil enough as it is."

 

Having known someone whose bedroom was the cupboard under the stairs: yes it does. I remember visiting his house for the first time and thinking it was incredibly cool, like having your own secret den.

A whole lot of people have bedrooms that don't fit anything more than a bed. It's called a box room.

The bulldog issue is very much like the bullying from Dudley.

The frying pan has been very much overplayed in fanon. From what we see it was more of a swatting/warding off gesture meaning "get lost" rather than a genuine attempt to beat Harry. If the Dursleys had wanted to beat Harry, there was nothing stopping them.

Edit: to be clear, I'm speaking Harry's time at the Dursleys as a child. The CoS cat flap event is on a completely different level.

 

I don't think the Dursley's intended the cupboard to be Harry's 'secret den'. I also doubt that Harry saw it that way.

That scene is open to interpretation. Fanon tends to make it an outright murder attempt, and I don't think that's true. Then again, I don't remember making any warding off gestures at my daugther with a frying pan, much less one aimed at her head.

 

The difference is that someone that you knew most likely wasn't being held there out of spite, lingering hate or any malice whatsoever. Correct?

Look, I get it that IRL shit can be very different. But we're not talking about IRL, we're talking Harry Potter. He was put in the cupboard because they detested acknowledging him whatsoever as a human being. Hell, fear is the only thing that made them somewhat decent, emphasis on the somewhat, towards Harry.

He wasn't put in a cupboard because they didn't have any other room to place him. They just plain hated him.

 

I personally feel these are signs of some more serious abuse. At the same time though, I like to think that if the Dursleys are cunning enough to get the whole neighbourhood to think Harry is a little miscreant then they're smart enough not to do anything that could easily be traced back to them. So no whippings, no physical scaring, infrequent broken bones etc. If there is any physical abuse it would be limited to soft tissue injuries like bruises to areas covered by clothing.

Still though, you don't need to do much else seeing as they're plenty evil.

In my mind JKR realised around the second or third book that the abuse she described was actually pretty horrible and then tried to downplay it so the Dursleys weren't too evil and that Harry could forgive Petunia in the final book.

---------- Post automerged at 21:22 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------

Taure, the difference here is that unlike a family who are poor and have no other option making a bedroom for one of their kids under the stairs, the Dursleys had a spare bedroom (or possibly two seeing as Marge stayed over) but chose to put him under the stairs.

 

I think that had more to do with people being people and not wanting to acknowledge bad things going on in front of them.

 

...which is exactly what I said:

Harry's material circumstances are not unusual and many people live in similar or worse conditions.

It's not that he's living in a cupboard itself which makes it abuse, it's that there was an empty extra bedroom being used for broken objects, making it clear to Harry that he was worth less to them than literal trash.

Same with food. It's not going hungry that makes it abuse, it's that the Dursleys paraded abundant food in front of him without letting him have it.

This is what I mean when people focus on the wrong things by talking about Harry's situation. The thing that makes it bad is how the Dursleys live, not how Harry lives.