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Pidgin-parseltongue

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by cucio, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

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    Sigh. This isn't really a big deal to me but I feel like I have to explain myself just to show that I thought it through.
    The point is that Parseltongue is magical in and of itself or snakes wouldn't be able to hear it. It's that magic that makes it possible to communicate with snakes. Thus one would think that it is the magic of the language that triggers the door to the Chamber, not the sound. Therefore, Ron would not have been able to open the door by mimicking the sounds Harry made; not even if he sat in the bathroom playing a recording of Harry speaking in Parseltongue.

    The alternative is that JKR was bullshitting, which, yes, is still a strong possibility. *shrug*

    Ginny was being possessed by Tom Riddle and he used Parseltongue through her. The other possibility is that his soul fragment spoke directly from the diary (projecting its presence, much like it did in the Chamber) and all she did was carry the book to the bathroom while under Tom's control. All of this happened off screen, we didn't see it, so we really don't know.

    Once again, we didn't see any of that happen, so you can't very well call it canon.

    Regardless of whether or not you can imitate Parseltongue and actually make it work, Harry was NOT born a Parselmouth, he received that ability by virtue of the fact that he is host to a fragment of Tom Riddle's soul. It says so right on page 686 of the Scholastic edition of DH.

    The ability to speak the language was held in Riddle's soul. That's why Harry can speak it and, if Ginny was possessed by Riddle at the time (and we know she was), then it follows that she could speak it too; really speak it, not imitate it.

    As for having to be genetically a Parseltongue in order to speak it; quite frankly, Voldemort isn't even genetically Voldemort after October 31 1981. The ability isn't part of Tom Riddle's genetics as much as it's part of his soul. The mechanics of this, though, are a bit far afield of the conversation at hand and would require a deeper look (and even more guesswork) into the already murky and inconsistant mechanics of magic in JKR's world.
     
  2. Spanks

    Spanks Chief Warlock

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    Just realized, does this mean that Harry can no longer speak to snakes? The AK destroyed the soul fragment inside Harry right? If it is something that is carried within ones soul, then Harry wouldn't be able to speak Parsel anymore. Unless the soul piece left its mark on Harry's soul and he still has some traits from Riddle.
     
  3. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

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    This is the natural question to ask, considering Harry is now free of Riddle's soul fragment. Something like this could have been answered in the Epilogue, along with a number of other burning questions.

    Instead we got Albus Severus, OBHWF and Draco 'I almost shot the sherrif' Malfoy roaming free instead of being ass-fucked in Azkaban by a former death eater named Nigel 'Bubba' Naylor or some other Potterifically alliterative name.
     
  4. Spanks

    Spanks Chief Warlock

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    That comment about Draco, Azkaban, and being ass fucked was hilarious :D

    One of the things that really disappointed me about the epilogue (besides the entire thing) was that JKR didn't mention what the hell Harry does for a living. Is he a dead beat who doesn't work and beats on his wife? An Auror? Quidittch player? We got nothing, except Neville Longbottom the Herbology teacher, as if we didn't see that one coming from a mile away.

    I would have thought that since Riddle is dead the curse on the DADA position is probably gone and maybe Harry took the job.
     
  5. Solomon

    Solomon Heir

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    I would have liked to see just how George was taking the whole "Fred's Dead" thing, to be quite honest. But no, Rowling didn't think that some of us might want to know that, now, did she? Blahhh...
     
  6. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

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    I think I'll stick with my theory that they harvested Fred's ear and used it to replace George's missing one.
    Now the twins can be together all the time... :p
     
  7. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Not even a Weasley loves his family enough to sew his dead brother's ear onto his head...

    Anyways, on topic - passwords are just that, words. The spell reacts to the verbal input from the speaker, not the magic behind it. Also, password spells must be pretty much impenetrable, since even the Headmaster's Office used one (and it appeared to be his only line of defence bar himself). So to put it in a language that most would never hear in their lives (because Parseltongue is so rare, and I bet it being associated with Dark Magic has a very good reason behind it) is just that added bit of security. I doubt anyone was dumb enough to think of imitating parseltongue in the first place to try and get in :p. Sometimes you've gotta think outside of the box.

    So, Ron's mangled attempts at parseltongue (which, if I recall correctly, is a particularly memorable language to hear) would be open a password encoded doorway so they could get down to the Chamber.

    Aekiel
     
  8. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    In other news;

    DUMBLEDORE SPEAKS PARSELTONGUE!

    JK said so herself. o_o
     
  9. Spanks

    Spanks Chief Warlock

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    So much for Parseltongue being a trait that is handed down through the family. This kind of kills the whole point of the Gaunt family inbreeding with eachother so they could preserve their ability for themselves. If it can be learned, what's the point?
     
  10. Aakunen

    Aakunen Second Year

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    Maybe because they didn't have to learn? I mean, it's still an unusual family trait - others, who want to speak that particular language, have to learn it (We still don't know how long it takes to learn language via magic; how in the hell Crouch knew so much of them?).

    Gaunts' natural affinity with the parseltongue linked them to Salazar Slytherin, so, in my opinion, it was enough reason to inbreed for them (after all every Gaunt we met in the books was unstable mentally).
     
  11. Anlun

    Anlun Denarii Host

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    I thought that was pretty lame of her to say that Dumbledore could speak Parseltongue. I understood it as a magical ability passed down through a family. I wasn't under the impression that only the Slytherin Line spoke it since it's mentioned that "Dark Wizards" have that ability, and thus implying that more then one family has it, but I did assume it was passed down through families or at the very least caused through a ritual.
     
  12. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

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    It's called organ donation, they do it all the time in the real world.

    I'm sure the Wizarding World had an organization to promote such things at one time. It was probably just disbanded because they were accused of Dark Magic and Necromancy.

    It didn't help that their slogan was, "Have a heart, because we'll be wanting it later.", and the slightly less direct, "You done with that?"
     
  13. griselda

    griselda First Year

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    It also kills the only excuse Dumbledore ever had for not finding the Chamber of Secrets himself in book 2.

    And it adds another item to the long list of things he could have done to prepare Harry better in HBP. Would it have hurt to tell him that Basilisk teeth destroy the things and take a trip down the Chamber together with him? That might have made the plot of HBP a bit more interesting maybe and Deathly Hallows less fabricated and contrived.
     
  14. Lyndon Eye

    Lyndon Eye Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    I don't really see Parseltongue as a gene, implying that it has some physical manifestation (e.g. extra lobe in the brain or something). I've always thought of it as entirely a magical ability, passed down through generations magically. Thus, when Harry got it from Voldemort, there was no transfer of genes, but rather an exchange of magic, which I feel is on an entirely different plane from the physical one. Thus, since Parseltongue is an ability based upon magic, it would make sense that Ginny could speak it since she was posessed by Riddle, and therefore could channel his magic.

    Following that line of thought, I also don't believe that Ron could have imitated Parseltongue. It's not so much the physical sound of it (otherwise, anyone could learn it) as it is the magical essence of it (which is why Harry, who has the ability, can instinctively speak it with no prior knowledge of the 'language'). For me, the fact that Ron can mimic in Deathly Hallows is just another example of Rowling's many plot holes in a mostly disappointing end to a great series.
     
  15. yak

    yak Moderator DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Note: JK says that Dumbledore understands Parseltongue. Not that he can speak it. She doesn't say that he is a Parselmouth.

    She also doesn't say when he learned to understand Parseltongue. Perhaps it wasn't until after he was caught short in the CoS.

    I wonder whether Harry can remember enough to still understand parseltongue when it is spoken?

    You can find a lot of answers here (including how Neville got the Sword of G): http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/content.asp?sec=3&sec2=1

    Yak.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2007
  16. Zilly Sawdust

    Zilly Sawdust High Inquisitor

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    I don't think so, because he used it only a few times in the books (haven't read DH, but I assume it wasn't much more then in previous ones), not quite enough to remember anything more then the basic 'open', IMO.

    On to the question of how Ron opened the locket, I think that the locket was enchanted to open to a specific password. As it stands, the password was a series of sounds, that spoken in parseltongue form the word 'open'. I don't think the locket required any 'parseltongue magic' or magic that forms in the voice while you speak it, because it was enchanted to react to sound. As long as it sounded like a parseltongue saying 'open', the enchantment wouldn't care.

    P.S. Oops. I necroed.. ;\
     
  17. Aria Gray

    Aria Gray Muggle

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    Unless every sound in Parseltongue (or at least every sound in the parseltongue word 'open') is in the English language, then Ron shouldn't have been able to distinguish the sounds when Harry spoke them enough to reproduce them. At least that's the way normal languages work. If you don't hear a specific sound when you are a kid, then it will take years to distinguish it from other sounds, if at all.

    If it's not like a normal language, and can't be learned, then Ron shouldn't have been able to speak it.



    Umm..I don't think that's why they were inbred. I think they were just trying to keep their bloodline pure, rather than keep the language in their family.
     
  18. Blaise

    Blaise Golden Patronus

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    That,and lack of prospects.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2008
  19. slasheh

    slasheh Seventh Year

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    you know, every interview JKR gives disappoints me more....

    On the topic, i still it was a VERY stupid idea of her to make Ron able to open the chamber. If you ever heard a snake hiss you'd know that it shoulds like "HISS" not much else. How the hell do you imitate that? If you don't have the magic to support it (meaning the ability to speak parseltongue) then it sounds excactly the same....
     
  20. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Answered in a recent interview.

    There you go. Question answered. :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2008
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