I think there's a lot of difference to seeing a real dead body than seeing one in a movie, even if you still sort of have a point. There's also a supernatural element to the Old Ones and the Deep Ones and all that shit.

I mean, I had to pause every 5-10 minutes when I tried to watch Martyrs and I still only got about 40 minutes or so in because it was so fucking sick. So I guess we all react differently to that stuff. Either way, could be a cool story. ^^

 

IT would be interesting to do something along the lines of the magic in Dresdenverse - IIRC Dresden says that in the modern world, magic befouls technology. However, in older times it would make different changes to the world - warts and boils on your face, curdling milk, and all that.

The Elder Gods do something similar. Whilst a century ago they'd be these betentacled monstrosities dreaming beneath the sea, and their cities bring about images of dead bodies, rot, and the nothingness that is the meaning of your life in the greater sense of the cosmos; now they are tentacled beings dreaming beneath the sea, whose cities raise great edifices to talentless drones raised from nothingness who parrot the words of our leaders again and again and again, whilst giant electronic speakers on every corner reverberate with the hidden whispers of so-called friends and what they say behind your back. Slogans splay across the sky, taking the view of nature itself away from you, until all is consumed or consumable.

So the Elder Gods take on, and are summoned by, the visage of what sends people of the time mad. If someone from 1920 were to have been pulled through time... Well, let's just say they probably shouldn't go to the cinema.

It would be interesting because you could have different generations completely avoiding different things - so Dumbledore and his peers are so very non-violent because, for them, to bring death is to bring about the death of the world.

 

First off, Xandrel buddy, I think you've kinda missed a trick here. Lovecraft-esque stuff wasn't 20th century equivalents of Saw and Hostel so much as about the insanity brought about by trying to comprehend things outside of the standard human perception, alien creatures and concepts that the mind can't grasp, so much so that every thought drives into trying to understand the very possibility of an existence until the person just snaps. They can't put these things into thoughts they know they can think, and it kills them. Alien cries no one's ever heard, colours no one's ever seen, existences that should not, in certain terms for the very fabric of human history, exist.

And like, I mean, c'mon, Rats In The Walls wasn't that at all. It was a slow burn of a well-to-do man ignoring the warnings set before him and resurrecting his family's old castle and when he does so, he finds himself plagued by the rustlings of rats in the walls so much that he goes regular insane from the sleep deprivation first. That he then finds out that beneath the castle is an underground city filled with generations removed human cattle, now blind quadruped cannibal monsters, is some pretty sick shit no matter how many horror movies anyone's seen, but what drives him mad isn't that.

It's everything. It's the lack of sleep, it's the realisation that he should've listened to the warnings, it's the fact the rats - these monsters - were so close to him all along, but, most importantly, it's that his own ancestors set up the farm, his own ancestors were feasting on humans and then left them to become that, and that human beings are capable of being reduced to such a state. He goes mad because he can't comprehend that either and both are possible, that he's privy to something no one should be, and if a human can become that monster, why not him next? He embraces it, kills and eats one of his companions, and his madness forms into a more human insanity as he's sure it was the rats who did it, not him, and that he can still hear them in the walls of the asylum...

But anyway. Zeel, the idea has fun time merit for HP Lovecraft, sure. Or just general horror/suspense, even; don't really get a lot of people using Memory Charms as plot forces that the reader's aware of happening instead of devices that are sprung out to reveal that Dumbledore stole some gold and Harry found out or whatever. Or something like the film Memento could be fun, piecing together some story after someone's been erased.

Meanwhile, I'd know what I'd do with Memory Charms and an existential alien being of a sort. It's this:

Y'know how folk have discussions where people wonder where objects that are hit with Vanishing spells go? Do they move somewhere, do they disappear into nothing, or are transported to some pocket trash universe or the Room Of Requirement or blah blah. Happens in plenty of fics, I'm sure Methods Of Rationality has a perfectly rational explanation that I'll never read, but yeah, it's a thing. Worth wondering, sure.

So where does someone's memories go after they've been hit with a Memory Charm? Are they too banished into the ether, are they taken by the person who cast the spell, or are they buried deep within the recesses of the mind and could be recovered...? Many options, but what if they become a part of something, something that's out there, and has been since the start. A side-effect no one could've known about, and every time it's discovered, another wizard is driven so mad he Obliviates himself to save his sanity and start the cycle anew, if he's even capable of holding the wand right way up, that is.

This thing's written about in half-mad ravings, a legend more than anything else, and sought out only by desperate and arrogant fools seeking lost knowledge that was lost for a reason. This side effect is a collection of lost memories, from the traumatic to the mundane to every memory ever remembered by a person, harvested from thousands upon thousands over centuries. It twists and warps, this thing, takes no perceived form or single consciousness, yet it still is a being beyond mortal thought, unable to be simply rationalised in our perception of dimension. It does not live, not truly, just exists. A Memory. All Memory. Yet is possible it can manifest in a way we can comprehend? Should it? Is it possible we find a way to understand it? Should we?

These questions and more fill Harry Potter's mind. Somewhere out there this thing holds the memories of one of his loved ones after a devastating attack, or perhaps a memory of his own, and he's heading down the road to madness in the quest to recover it, to survive remembering the lost memories of thousands in his bid to remember the most important one of all. To go up against the existence of an unending stream of lost memories, those half-remembered and half-forgotten, those rearranged by the recollection of them and those left behind from dreams, those that blur the line between real and fake because the memory itself cannot tell the difference, those that are solely remembered how a different person's perception of life remembered them...

Harry is joined by an ambitious and morally ambiguous Unspeakable who seeks to make a name for themselves, a former friend turned conspiracy theorist who thinks he's going too far, maybe some other buddies who'll all meet terrible fates for sticking around, and they travel the world following the writings of a half-dozen madmen and Dark Wizards who sought to conquer this thing themselves and did not truly survive it. At times, Harry isn't sure that if finding this thing will make him mad or if already being on the road to finding it is doing it, but he knows that if he doesn't recover the lost memories it'll drive him insane just as easily... The walls are closing in, he needs those memories, he's burning all his bridges, his mind's fracturing and splitting, and people are beginning to tell him there's a good reason those memories were lost in the first place... But is he able to listen? Is it too late? Has the existence of this thing and the paradoxes of memory already claimed his mind for good?

... I'd do some mindfuck like that, basically.

 

So basically "They Live"?

 

Matt, that was beautiful. And by beautiful I mean horrifying. And by horrifying I mean in a good way. And by a good way, I mean I want to read it.

 

I didn't mean that Lovecraft stuff was 20th century equivalents of Saw.

What I'm saying is that to modern audiences who are familiar with things like the Human Centipede or Saw, Lovecraft is no longer scary.

Lovecraft wrote things before World War II, he didn't know the world of atomic bombs, 9/11 and other similar things.

As to the alien cries nobody heard or things that should not exist, well, we've had hundreds and hundreds of science-fiction and horror movies to take care of that.

For example, the Xenomorph from Alien, that's a pretty scary-looking creature, right? To someone living in the 1920s, that'd be a hellish image. But today we're used to seeing things like that.

However, you do have a point with the Rats in the Walls example in that the main character's insanity is the result of several factors, some of them very personal ones.

I suppose if I found out that my ancestors were all cannibals I'd be more than a little disturbed myself.

This reminds me of Cyberpunk. Which coincidentally has already been mashed with Lovecraft mythos.

Here you go: Cthulhupunk
"The classic horror of the Cthulhu Mythos meets the dark future of cyberpunk . . . CthulhuPunk!"

 

Playing on the Character-As-Character stuff from way back at the beginning of this thread: Alastor Moody as an Irish hit man spending some time in Belgium, Lord Voldemort as a mob boss, and Fleur Delacour as a coked-up actor who becomes Moody's partner's girlfriend.

 

During the Priori Incantantem scene in GoF, the shades of Frank Bryce, Cedric Diggory and Frank Bryce leave Voldemort's wand.

What if they remained as ghosts? At least, the Potters and Cedric. Bryce was a muggle so I have doubts it would work for him the same way.

But regardless, imagine what impact would that have on Harry and the series if the Potters were around even if only as ghosts.

 

Do we know how freely ghosts can move about in the world? They might be tied to a single location or able to follow Harry at will or something, but the Spirit Division at the Ministry of Magic must have something to do.

Also, they wouldn't be real ghosts, right? They're something half-way between portraits and ghosts, since they aren't the shade of the actual person, but something like a powerful psychic imprint, similar to a portrait. Still, might not matter too much as far as the following goes.

James and Lily probably tell Harry about the prophecy, but they might take the same line with it as Dumbledore -- it only has as much power as Voldemort puts stock into it.

Sirius and Remus spend time catching up with James. Lily gives the Dursleys an awful scare. Depending on what you want to do, Petunia can begin a slow reconciliation process or things remain frosty. Snape is shocked by Lily's presence and Lily is none too amused that Snape has been verbally abusing and bullying Harry over the last four years at Hogwarts.

Would Fudge still be able to get away with claiming that Voldemort didn't return, if the ghosts of the Potters and the recently deceased Cedric Diggory claim that he's back? Cedric's presence as a ghost would probably prompt the Diggories into supporting Harry and Dumbledore.

Fudge would be attacking a grieving family if he challenged their credibility too directly, which would be politically problematic. He might try to bring the Spirit Division to bear against the Potters and Cedric, but the Potters are the returning parents of the hero of the age and Cedric was the popular face of Hogwarts in the Triwizard Tournament -- he might find his hands stymied as far as silencing the Potters and Cedric.

Even as pro-Ministry as some of the reporters on the Prophet may be concerned, an interview with the Potters is not something anyone wants to pass up.

The Potters get inducted back into the Order post-mortem and they rotate shifts at the Department of Mysteries, as they can more easily keep watch and put up the alarm.

Voldemort has no idea what to really make of the Potters and ignores Cedric, but reasons that they shouldn't affect his plans too much as far as killing Harry is concerned. He might have some concern about Snape, since he knows that Snape was obsessed about Lily.

Oh, and Cedric decides to hook up with Myrtle, given the lack of options. Cho is crushed but eventually understands.

 

Rayndeon

Good ideas, but Dursleys can't see ghosts as muggles cannot see ghosts.

 

Xandrel, well, since they aren't actual ghosts but after-images of the Priori Incantatem that stuck around, you might argue that they're more like a cross between a spell effect and a magical portrait. And muggles can see both, can't they?

 

Good point, it could be argued either way.

 

One idea I've found interesting lately is a wrong twin who lived story where the twin is marked (with the lightning scar) but Harry is the one who ultimately end Voldemort. This is because (like Dumbledore thought) the prophecy has no meaning, except that Voldemort thinks it does. So he targets the wrong Twin repeatedly which motivates Harry to end the threat to his brothers life, or at least try to keep his younger brother safe. I imagine that the boys would be a lot like canon Harry at first, but as they grow up they start to differentiate like normal human beings.

I'm imagining that it is a very canon like world, so the boys are treated largely the same except by the general public which obviously pays more attention to the twin. For their early life, having to feed and clothe more children means there's not a much money to spend on luxuries and presents, so Dudley isn't incredibly spoiled. In fact he and Harry get along well (Harry has always been an athletic type of character in my eyes) and the twin is more academically inclined. Both protagonists (Harry and Wrong Twin! named Tom to be dramatic/ironic) would have their perspectives written from and you could follow their adventures as they grew up.

Rough character ideas from me:

Harry:

Harry is outgoing and social, a gryffindor at heart like his father. He can be impulsive and a little socially abrasive (like his father, James) but he means well. A bit of a reversal from typical wrong boy who lived stories where Harry doesn't act very Harry-like. Harry, having friends and a more robust support system is a more confident and is good at charms and DADA like in canon. My conceptualization was that Harry would be just like canon Harry, but a bit more extroverted, which would explain why he is motivated to be pro-active (as opposed to reactive) like in canon. This would also give the author a chance to write about a more diverse cast of characters if they wanted (by branching out into other houses) and show that Harry's natural leadership (which he exhibits from 5th year on) and competencies allow him to be a credible threat to Voldemort's plans later on.

If I could write, i'd also have to find a way to make him a magical threat -in combat- to Voldemort, but i'd do this by making him as talented as Voldemort and Dumbledore (which isn't really canon) but like those two figures, actually be interested in magic (the practical part at least) so he does experiment and study the actual casting of spells. While Harry would have many positive character traits, I'd definitely expect to see some negative ones to balance them out. Personally, I'd expect Harry to be somewhat bossy and prone to not taking other people's perspectives into account. I already pointed out that I think he would be very action oriented, and that could make him reckless or just not very attentive to details.

Showcasing how his flaws in combination with his 'upgraded' personality traits would be important not to make him a Gary Stu, because otherwise you would A: not need his twin at all and B: would just have a better version of Harry. Personality traits I considered for him but did not consider in depth: Jealousy (If Harry is naturally talented, but his twin Tom is the one getting lots of public attention initially, this could be not just a problem but a recrurring one), boorishness (he was raised by the Dursleys after all), a competitive nature (which can be extremely grating), arrogance, and a lack of social respect for 'others' (people he doesn't 'click' with, magical creatures, etc.). My goal was to create a Harry that was retained the 'Harry Potter' feel while differentiating himself from canon Harry (who in my mind is quiet, socially reserved but respectful/polite, not interested in academics for their own sake, and accepting of others/empathic) by giving him social foibles in areas we aren't used to.


Tom:


Tom in some ways should contrast Harry. I suppose you could change the name, but I wanted a name that was 'common' to my ears, but also very obvious to the reader had connections (in this case, Voldemort and Tom share the same first name) to the major antagonist. One of the major themes I had with Tom was that he should make you (as the reader) wonder if maybe the scarcrux in his head is affecting him. As a spoiler, I don't intend it to, but rather I wanted to highlight that people can be very similar for very different reasons. Without making him shallow, I had a few character traits I wanted to emphasize. First, Harry and Tom would have different areas of expertise. When I decided Harry would be good at charms and DADA, that left potions and transfiguration for Tom, which was fine by me.

If Harry's "job" in the story is to be bright, loud, and the center of attention, then Tom would be quiet, reserved and polite. In many ways, I want Dumbledore to be worried about how similar both Toms are, which would require that Twin! Tom is intelligent, soft-spoken but very emotionally savvy. In the same ways as canon Harry is, I thought that Tom would be very good with magical creatures and races, having been as a child paid somewhat less attention to, and perhaps even looked down upon by Dudley, Harry, and Vernon for not being athletic/outgoing like they are. Ideally, both Harry and Tom are both magically intelligent, but i'd have Tom being more academically inclined (while both brothers would be interested in spell crafting, i'd expect Harry to do the minimal amount of 'work' to make a spell possible and then try it out, but Tom to meticulously craft the theoretical components before actually trying it out). To contrast the two, Harry is more of a DnD Sorcerer (using his instincts) and Tom is more of a wizard. It should be a point of interpersonal conflict between them. One of the benefits of using both perspectives is that, for some portions of the story, I'd expect that the brothers would be antagonistic to each other. Most twins I know had interpersonal issues, and realistically i'd expect the same in this story.

Having two twins, I'd expect that some professors would pick favorites. Even if both boys were in the same house, I'd think that Tom would be able to build a good rapport in the later years with Snape (Tom being good at potions, and quiet and respectful would give Snape a good chance at treating Tom like Lily's son, as opposed to James') especially given their shared interests in spell making, potions, and the generally methodical nature of their characters. To add some 'spice' to Tom, I thought he might be a bit more vicious (or mean) from aving to deal with Harry/Dudley's 'good natured' ribbing/play fighting. As a more introverted character, being constantly engaged by an extrovert can be frustrating, so maybe he would get in that habit. I hate to use the term, but in general I'd have Tom be more 'dark' than Harry, but still be a 'good guy'. Like canon! Harry I wouldn't have him want the public attention on him, but it doesn't do anything other than fluster him. Having more positive role-models and with strong convictions, he may actually wind up 'using' his fame like so many DLPers want. Even though he is 'darker' as a character, an important attribute of his would be canon! Harry's nature empathy for others and that could be a driving force of his character growth and interactions. Even if we want to avoid stereotypes, while both would be popular, Harry would be more jock/athletic popular and Tom would be more 'kind to others' popular, being willing to help people with their homework and build a network of associates that way.

edit: Will add more later

 

His brother would still be a horcrux though, right? That would cause some pretty serious issues.

 

I'm of mixed thoughts about that but yes it could definitely be a plot point. Admittedly if it was me I would try to resolve it in a way that was more satisfying than canon but I don't think Tom would need to pull a Jesus to get the bit if Voldemort's soul out. By sixth year (if Dumbledore figures it out again) there would be basically 3 people with extreme talent and a strong motivation to figure out a magical way to seperate the soul bit from Tom.

I'm of the opinion that Dumbledore was truly interested in canon! Harry's personal wellbeing and with the three of them working together they should be able to accomplish a lot. In my perspective Dumbledore would be able to act as a mentor to the two Potter boys during their time at Hogwarts, and come to care for them as he did in canon, as a loving grandfather. A satisfying solution would be to avoid the Snape kills Dumbledore scene in its entirety (as well as perhaps the entire Malloy plot at all) and have Dumbledore give his life to get the shard out (unknown to the boys). That resonates with a theme of the book, giving up what is precious to you for those you love. I've always felt that Dumbledore at his core was a responsible man with too many responsibilities that he took on only out of obligation. With two worthy successors to his legacy (his apprentices? Perhaps after 5th year) and his inevitable demise coming from the ring, I can think of no greater act for the greatest wizard of his time to do than to give his life to make sure that his grandchildren could be safe and free from any lingering taint from Voldemort.

Given his age he would probably reveal all of this to the boys in a letter after his death, but that's a bit specific for a planning thread.

In a general sense, though, a lot of the Canon events would still occur, but perhaps split between the two boys. You would have to add more social interactions and conflicts to account for this, and both characters would be a vessel to experience a different kind of Hogwarts experience. For instance Harry might deal with the first year dilemma, but obviously Tom has to deal with the second year the basilisk. This presents an opportunity to expound on the differences between each Tom (and especially the chance for Tom to realize how different they are, but more importantly how similar they are) and get some character growth. But some of the tasks would be split between the boys (Harry would be more likely to go into the forest to find Aragog for instance, but he could get in trouble with Tom for killing the spiders when he didn't need to) and other problems could be caused by the friends they make and interpersonal drama. My opinion is that except where necessary (action scenes or when is necessary to give the 'other side' of an interpersonal conflict) the story would follow Harry most of the time, being the "canon main character" and generally more dynamic.

I would personally split the series into 3 seperate stories with district themes and feelings. The first three books would make up the first story, and be a young adult fantasy novel. The fourth through sixth years could be a coming off age story ending with Dumbledore's death, and the final story being a more gritty fantasy war story dealing with Harry and Tom needing to deal with the horcrux hunt (Tom) and fighting the corruption of the ministry by Voldemort through political and extra legal means(Harry) .

 

"Magitech" plot bunny:

As a jumping off point of something like Xandrel's idea with magic mirrors, I think it would be interesting to have a "magitech" style AU. Not real magitech in the sense of magic combined with technology, but an AU where magic has been taken to the limit to not only match Muggle technology in various respects, but vastly exceed it. Wizards have had the equivalent of the Internet for decades, they have access to functional magical prosthetics (like Moody's eye), there's an equivalent of the Matrix using a combination of Pensieves and mirrors, etc and even the equivalent of various video games.

The capabilities of the Magical world end up being superior to the Muggle world in many respects and entering the magical world really feels, well, magical. It becomes understandable to some extent why so many witches and wizards look down upon Muggles -- and why Grindelwald and Dumbledore wanted to rule over them for their own good because compared to wizards, muggles are practically in the Stone Age. One point of contention might be space travel, but wizards are too busy fooling around with pocket dimensions per wizardspace and the like to care too much about it.

Nonetheless, politically, it would still function as in canon as having some fairly prejudiced laws and what not. Could make for some interesting tension as Muggleborns enter their society.

Point is that there are so many bashing fics that try to portray the wizarding world as needing to "catch up" to the Muggle world. Why not the other way around?

 

Can anyone say "review magnet"?

 

Rayndeon

That's a really cool idea. Haven't heard anything like it. It would be an interesting AU to craft, the point of divergence could be something like a more serious clash between wizards and muggles in the past century where warfare machinery took wizards by surprise and dominated them, causing them to batten down the hatches and advance quickly after learning that muggles had the capability to be a serious threat to the wizarding world's current level of technology.

I think it's interesting to think about how and why wizarding society developed as it did. The feudal-type culture seemed to persist much longer for wizard-kind than muggles. I think if wizards somehow developed or were more strongly incentivized to develop a culture of open communication and sharing of knowledge, both nationally and internationally, this would have a huge effect on the advancement of magical knowledge and technology.

 

Welp, as is my wont I played a game recently and, of course, decided that it needed a Harry Potter crossover.

The game, Assassin's Creed Syndicate.

The idea, mostly because I'd allowed myself to forget just how much I love the Victorian London setting, basically involves a dimensionally displaced Harry trying to find some evidence of magic in the hope that he might be able to find a way home.

So he joins the Ghost Club and meets Charles Dickens. Then he meets Jacob and Evie Frye when they take a look into the supernatural happenings. He quickly realises that they aren't quite Muggles as they appear to be able to see a strange kind of latent magic and can even see through his own muggle repulsion charms etc.

His interest in them and general hanging-about-ness means that he eventually gets caught up in Evie's hunt for the Piece of Eden and his general Harry-ness means he gets caught up in Jacob's attempts to free London from the Templar yoke.

Beyond that... well there's no real story beyond the fact that it's Victorian London and there's approximately half a million people I'd love to have Harry meet.

And, because I was reading it recently, cross it over with Dodger by Terry Pratchett too. Because I don't need a reason.

 

Wasn't there some crossover that pretty much used this concept?