Sometimes I wonder what would have Hermione done if she had the HBP's potions book instead of Harry. Would she have been as outraged by the things written in it or would she have kept it to herself, using it to excel even further without anyone knowing the secret to her improved skills at Potions?

Thanks, I really needed that image in my head.

 

Warlocke, that's not what I meant.

I meant, that in a world where everyone has the potential to use mind control, insta-kill or ultra-pain curses, you can never be careful enough. In a world where your memories can be removed, modified, or seen, you can never be careful enough. In a world where people can pretend to be you with a simple potion, invisible spies can stand in your room, you can be tricked into a literally-unbreakable vow and GODDAMN SOUL-SUCKING DEMONS RUN AROUND, you can never be careful enough.

You thought Moody was paranoid? He was the only one who was sane. And Crouch Jr. still got him.

 

When person carries andiotes around in his/her pockets just for slim chance that something could happen, that person is paranoid. You could say same thing about this (muggle) world. In a world where anyone, with enough creativity, can obtain a gun, you can't be careful enough and get bullet proof vest. Why isn't everyone carrying these vests around, whenever they go out? It's same reason why noone in wizarding world carries bezoars in their pockets. Police/Aurors is there for a reason.

 

That's bad analogy. In the wizarding world, everyone has a wand and therefore the ability to cast the Killing Curse, which is unblockable and kills instantly (no vest to help you).

Sure, there are Aurors, but their existence won't resurrect you.

 

You are assuming that everyone is out to kill someone. While I agree that during the war, everyone should learn self defense, carrying bezoars around seems a bit overboard to me.

 

Carrying a bezoar sounds like just about the most intelligent thing you can learn from taking Potions at Hogwarts. If they don't cure everything, they cure enough for it not to matter.

When Slughorn's panicking because Ron's been poisoned, it's kind of funny that a fucking certified, well-known Potions master has no idea what to do, and Harry just crams a bezoar in Ron's face, problem solved.

That potion was apparently rather lethal, and again, seemingly undetectable even to the eye of a seasoned potioneer. Bezoars are fucking vital if that's the case. It would be silly not to have one on you for emergencies.

 

I also suspect that it would be much wiser if every First Year student at Hogwarts was taught Muggle-Repelling Charms.

I mean, with the Statute and everything, that's kind of important.

 

I was talking more generally about normal life in wizarding world. Normal wizards and witches don't have to carry bezoars around when they are shopping, right? Or when they are visiting friends? Yes, when said person is Harry Potter in Hogwarts, where there are troubles every school year, I would probably have one with me at all times too. But it would not be necessary for most people not named Harry Potter, right?

 

I thought the average person, which is what we're talking about here, couldn't cast any of the Unforgivables, let alone the Killing Curse.

 

The average person doesn't have a need to use them. But if they truly wanted to kill someone, the Killing Curse would work.

What Barty/Moody meant by saying that the students would fail, is that even if they cast the curse, it wouldn't even give him a nosebleed because they do not want to actually kill him. It's like with Cruciatus, you must want to kill, truly want it.

I'm talking about being able to kill someone, not wanting to do it.

Besides, there are a LOT more curses capable of killing, not only the unforgivables. The entrails-expelling curse comes to mind. Fiendfyre is also a good example.

How about you cast a particularly strong Obliviate at someone and remove their entire life? Wouldn't that suck balls?

Every person having a wand is like everyone having a gun. Except that gun has infinite ammunition and can transfigure people into mice.

 

I suppose that's another thing that boggles the mind. I mean, yeah, I get that the Unforgivables are called as such because they really have no other purpose other than to enslave, torture or kill someone, but then again it's not like the entrails-expelling curse you mentioned could be used for cooking or shit.

Rowling really didn't work quite well on that bit, did she? I suppose the Unforgivable trio became infamous because of a more common use.

I remember reading somewhere, a fanfic in the past month or two, where it presented the idea that they were called Unforgivable because they were unforgivably easy to use.

Quite true. Now imagine every 11 year old child getting a gun of its own, because that's what's happening, in essence; the kids just get handed a weapon, though not many of them know it at the time. Let the games begin!

 

Canon = There is no such thing as love potions.

They just cause infatuation to some degree.

Love potions = Sexy dress

 

Perhaps, but it is a valid and accurate response to what you said.

See, that's nice and all, but I addressed what you actually wrote... in words... in the post I originally quoted.

Ahem.

Emphasis mine.
Nothing in that post about the Killing Curse or Cruciatus, nothing about mind control (and what those have to do with love potions is beyond me - that's like saying the presence of guns in our world makes it more likely someone will slip you a roofie), nothing about memory modification or invisibility, or the potentially dangerous state of day to day life in the Wizarding World... and the discussion was about love potions.

Besides, you can't "bezoar away" the Unforgivables or Obliviation, so... yeah. There's no preventative measure against most of that other stuff, beyond constant paranoia; so, what, if anything, is the point?

If your point was actually just as simple as a generalized, "The Wizarding World is a dark and dangerous place, so you can never be too careful." Then...

1. Well, no fucking kidding!
2. You probably should have made that clear, since the current topic was love potions and your entire post was solely about love potions, and your subsequent explanation of what you actually meant bears little to no resemblance to the content of your original post.
3. Bezoar vs love potion as a preventative measure was a bad example. A bad example it was. You picked a bad example. This post only exists because of your bad example...

But, that has nothing to do with his example; he was referring to your love potion argument. Bearing that in mind, your response would have had just as much relevance if you had said, "That's a bad analogy because Boston Cream Pie is actually cake, not pie."

Firstly, no, it isn't; it's a totally fair comparison to the love potion example in your original post.
Your original post.
Secondly, you really shouldn't be throwing stones, in regard to bad examples, at the moment. :facepalm

TL/DR: Don't look at other people like they're the crazy ones for their replies, when you are the one retroactively changing the meaning of... words after you say them.

Just more love potion talk, feel free to skip it...

Spoiler

I will reiterate: Carrying a bezoar is not likely to stop you from being dosed with a love potion, and once you've been dosed, it's as unlikely you'll have the presence of mind to say, "I don't think I'm acting normally; better whip out my antidote kit." as it is for someone who is blind, stinking, drunk to say, "I believe my judgement has been impaired. I suspect I should hand my car keys to my friend, call a cab, and not make a pass at that barfly with the suspicious looking rash."

A poison that causes chest pains before it kills you... sure, you'll probably realize something is wrong and pop a bezoar. A mind-affecting potion that has nothing but pleasant side effects, though? That's less likely.

Carrying a bezoar is not proof against Amortentia. It's like carrying an air horn with which to wake yourself up if you have a narcolepsy attack: Who's going to blow the horn if you're asleep?

I'd also like to take a moment to point out that there's no indication in canon that a bezoar is even capable of negating a love potion. It works on "most" poisons, but not all of them, and love potions may not function like poisons. Note that Harry asked Slughorn to make a cure for the love potion, but when Ron was poisoned, Harry just grabbed a bezoar and crammed it in his friend's mouth.. So, why couldn't he have simply helped himself to the bezoar for the love potion in the first place? It would have been less trouble than asking for a cure, and a lot faster.

Maybe because a bezoar won't work on a love potion?
Or, maybe just to serve the plot. :|

And, I shouldn't have to point out the obvious parallel between the notion that "If you're a wizard and don't carry things like bezoar and other antidotes on you, then it is your fault if you are love potioned." and "If you don't carry mace, then it is your fault if you get raped."

 

See, this is why I like to Doublethink things like Love Potions away. It's the perfect example of Rowling World-Building without fully considering the consequences. In this case, it's probably not a good thing when Fred/George can freely sell a date-rape drug (because, as Merope Gaunt explicitly proved, that's exactly what it is).

 

The Amortentia potion it's said to be the most powerful love potion in the world, and perhaps the potion Merope used to ensnare Tom Riddle, iirc.

That doesn't mean all love potions are bad, maybe the twins sell a weak one.

 

Slughorn being a dumbass under pressure didn't seem incongruent with everything else we know about his character. I'd think if wizards have first aid kids that a bezoar would be a pretty standard feature (along with murtlap essence and magical burn salve, maybe Skele-Gro). In theory it would be smart to always have a first-aid kit on you, but not too many people are that careful.

Anyway, I was also under the impression that Love Potion is just an artificial infatuation (it's pretty well established from what I understand). But JKR apparently said the DoM's "Love Room" just contained a fountain of Amortentia. So... I don't know. There are many kinds of non-romantic love, which I'd guess is much harder to artificially replicate.

 

Warlocke, how come every post of yours is awesome, you're like Pers. Fuck you two, you make me feel inadequate, both of you are like my father, next time you will be asking why I'm not a doctor like you.

Also, Warlocke's analogy made perfect sense when we were referring to love potions. No ideia why the AK pull, everybody doesn't own guns and not every wizard knows how to make Love potions.

 

lol
Thanks, but putting me even remotely on the same level as Perspicacity is really unfair to him and whoever funded his education.

 

Your posts are always at least pretty good, to many being much better then the whole discussion/fic in review, and aren't pedantic like many of Taure's are, although I do like most of his and he has some excellent ideas organisation, and Pers is, well, he is simply awesome. He Is The Most Interesting Man.

 

I was about to make this argument, but would a 'sexy dress' have been enough to keep someone like Riddle Sr. around, with someone like Merope?

I mean, that goes beyond simply noticing her. It had to change his entire being, or there's no way it could have utterly reversed his utterly negative opinion of Merope and her family.

And it had to do it for long enough that she got his attention, bedded him, and got pregnant, to say nothing of the fact that it didn't wear off, or anything like that.

No, she had to decide after a few months, IIRC, to let this poor sap have his fucking free will back, at which point he promptly and understandably freaks the fuck out and leaves.

Sounds like more than a 'sexy dress.'