Oh really? I'm pretty sure he bowed down when Voldemort told him to. Anyways.....

As for the adult ones, it wasn't too explicit, and besides, Muggleborns weren't exactly creme of the crop. I always got the impression that Muggleborns were still a minority and fairly oppressed. And so it wasn't much of a surprise when the Ministry started going for registration and heritage confirmation. Besides, with control of the Ministry, they instantly had all records available of Muggleborns and such. Not to mention the fact that the Death Eater organization had been around for decades, and before it had that name, fifty years. With new member each generation. So just keeping that kind of record, like asking your kids what new muggleborns there were in their year at the Sorting, wouldn't be that hard. Keeping that list up to date with contacts within the Ministry, again just a list of people, wouldn't be that hard.

And Apparition seems to be something you can't do unless you have already been there before, the Floo Network is iffy on the International Front, and I don't think Portkey creation is a particularly common skill. Which leaves brooms for magical transport. As for Muggle International Transportation, many Muggleborn Adult Wizards and Witches have most likely remained part of the magical world for most of their lives, and thus have no records, identification, and even organic knowledge of how the Muggle world works and such. The older they are the worse off they are in this regard. Even the teenagers like Harry and Hermione weren't in a particularly good situation what with the majority of their lives spent in the magical world from 1991 onwards.

So since Voldemort didn't basically go on a killing spree when he got his coup, and was more subtle about it, sort of, and already had everyone's number, it would have been rather difficult to flee. That and I don't think most people actually realized exactly what it meant when Scrimgeour "resigned" until they had Aurors/Death Eaters at their doors. At which point, it would be too late.

 

IIRC, Voldemort used a spell to physically force Harry to bow. He used the Imperius to force Harry to beg for mercy. He failed.

 

Huh. Maybe I should re-open my book, because I don't remember him even saying Imperio.

This....I don't understand how you can think this. At all. It's still completely gamebreaking in terms of magical abilities.

 

Edit: Ninja'd on the bowing part

But, yeah Voldemort used the Imperius curse and Harry resisted it even after being tortured. Here's the passage:

 

I've never thought that was the Imperius. It's described completely differently.

The Imperius, when it works, is like a voice in your head telling you to do something, and you being too blissed out to disobey. Note the look on the goblin's face as he's subjected to the Imperius in Deathly Hallows (part 2), he looks like he's high or in love (maybe JKR told someone that they fucked up with "cataract Krum" in OoTP).

There's none of that in the graveyard. Observe the differences...

To me, there's not even a whiff of the Imperius curse in that second passage. It's more like Voldemort physically forced Harry's body to bend, like Darth Vader's so-called 'Force Choke,' than mind control.

It just boggles my mind that so many people read this as being the Imperius.

Edit: Damn, I got ninja'ed up one side and down the other.

 

Knoq is the first person I've encountered who believed this. Is it a common thing in fics?

 

Nah. But I still can't recall where anyone else attempted the Imperius on Harry aside from Moody.
EDIT:NVM.

More catching up.

Reasons which Rowling had to Hamfist up the ass up the last book. Just to make it extra obvious. Although it fails completely on its ass what with hair color~=/magic.

Ah yes the unsubstantiated rumors of Hitler being part Jewish. Reinhard Heydrich was though.

No, not if you, you know, think, with your brain, for about a minute. Being, subjectively, a little prettier than some does not come close to equaling the disparity in capabilities that magic brings.

You forgot that Voldemort also gave her those chances because Snape asked him to. He might have made a one way vow or promise and such.

I was hoping someone would stumble into what is the biggest, and most massive plothole of the series. The idea that only one woman was self-sacrificing like that. Had Riddle wanted to spare her, he could have simply stunned her. Voila, Harry is just a child. Nothing special. Of course, since Voldemort likely had no intention of actually sparing her life....

If I could give you thumbs up, I would.

 

Was just a thought that popped into my head during a reread of the books. Although I think that, until we find out the extent of the power of Naming, HP magic would shit all over Kingkiller magic.

 

Muggleborns escaping Britain after Voldemort's rise assumes that the rest of the world offers them a superior situation. But we know that Pureblood philosophy has some measure of popularity internationally (or at least within Europe), with Durmstrang not allowing Muggleborn students. Even if that's the only school with such a policy, it's still 1/11 schools. We also know that Muggleborns are not treated well in Albania.

 

Fairly...
I've seen it more than a few times, but then there is a lot of fan fic out there; the ratio is undoubtedly small.

It's been used by some fan fic writers as an example of Harry not being immune to the Imperius, in order to excuse him falling prey to the curse in their own story. Alternatively, some have also had Harry explain to someone who has been under it that he knows how it feels and can sympathize, because of the bowing business... it always irritates me.

I'm not sure what bothers me more, that some people believe the bowing thing was the Imperius and that Harry succumbed to it, or that some of those people know that's not true but have twisted the scene for plot purposes in their own writing, thus misleading some readers into thinking that it's actually canon.

People who have only seen the movie seem particularly susceptible to believing that in the first place, and equally so to being convinced of it by other fan fic writers.

Admittedly, I tend to be of the opinion that if you're going to write Harry Potter fan fiction, then you should have read the books, even if the movies were what got you into HP. I'm a bit snobby that way: Maybe more fan fic would be literate if the people writing it actually had to (be able to) read and understand a book, in order to get introduced to the series.

 

I think we had a member point out that it's not so much that Lily was the only one willing to sacrifice herself to save her child, but rather that Lily was the only one to do so in a situation where she was otherwise going to be allowed to live.

Taure, we all know that all the muggleborns fled Britain to come to Magical America, where everyone shits rainbows and magitek is the norm. Also everyone is born instinctively knowing how to transform into bald eagles, and when you turn 7 you get your own handgun.

 

Um yeah. And its still really fucking stupid. Jesus allegory too. And it reminds me of Harry's sacrifice protecting everybody.

Which is the one thing in Deathly Hallows that...no. I can't. I won't accept it. Its just too far, too much, too ridiculous a Deus Ex Machina even for a series based almost entirely upon them. It's that one thing of a series I love, that I cannot stand and only, just barely, but not really, accept.

HEY! WE ARE NOT THAT FLIPPANT TO HAND PISTOLS TO CHILDREN. We merely train them quite adequately in long arm useage when puberty starts.

And Magitek isn't what I would worry about with a, theoretical, Magical America.

A lack of central governance accross the nations and continent, the Old Blood families having half a dozen kids as the norm since forever and thus in no danger of extinction, general bigotry survivng even harder, including racial bigotry, and other stuff that would result. Like, Muggle Americans pretend to be willing to throwdown with the government over taking shit too far. Magical Americans however, have actually fucking slaughtered their own attempts on central federal government and thus have something more like a confederacy, if that. Yeah, there are a lot of things Magical North America could be that would make it somewhat more powerful than Magical Britain, but technomagic doesn't have to be one of them. Like, States Rights advocates, other "Fed cant make me"types. Muggles speak it, Wizards live it.

He is the slipperiest goddamned snake of them all. "Oh No, Not Again". a timetravel Harry fic, has Lucius use a special portkey to get away from the Dark Lord's return in the middle of a battle. And gets away scot free. Again. In fact, I have to admit a weakness for fics that have Lucius Malfoy pull absurdly evil and obvious shit, get caught redhanded, and miraculously getting away with it, to the point that it only enhances his reputation.

Half the reason racism was rejected was that there really wasn't much in the way and demonstrative pure superiority.

Magicals however, are demonstrably, proveably, superior and more capable than Muggles on the individual scale. So that thought process will remain a permanent fixture. Or should at any rate.

....but that's the only way it makes sense. Otherwise, Magical Inheritance wouldn't be a thing, and nobody would give two shits about blood purity, because Magic was utterly random. A couple of distant Squib ancestors, or um, philandering Wizards, is a fairly decent explanation.

Same thing, just different severity. It's one thing to leave behind a chunk of flesh from your arm, its another to leave behind everything in the left half of your ribcage, including the ribcage, and the the skin attached. Its also different than leaving legs behind. Like blunt force trauma/concussions.

I think all of them did. From Bill to Ron. Maybe even Ginny but she was busy fangirling so....

No really, it is however interesting that pretty much all of the Weasley kids save the two youngest became fairly renowned. Either through entrepreneurial busineship, having kickass jobs, and working in high levels of governance.

The Twins, Percy, Bill and Charlie were all wildly successful. Possibly in desperation to not be poor.

I always got the feeling he had issues with all of his siblings. Being a nerdy middle child couldn't have helped things much.

Viewership convenience dude.

No. Just fucking no. You would be facing national collapse if 90% of teenagers slacked off that hard.

~~~~~

And about shield charm items. I'm guessing those are for helping in surprise attack situations, and give the wearer that extra layer of fall back, even if they can cast shield charms. Even if you do have people who simply can't cast good shield charms, they wouldn't be able to drive demand as much as people who just want that extra layer of protection.

I get the feeling that Goblins would take a rather dim view on such things. As in, send a Goblin army to fuck your shit up dim view of things. Outside of maybe a Philosopher's Stone's gold, the Goblins are likely able to detect such tomfoolery.

 

I'm just going to address this point, given that I'm fairly sure you're not going to be here in about a month's time (nothing personal).

Yeah. Teenagers do slack off that hard. Take it from someone who is one. There is nothing unusual at all about slacking off very hard as a teenager.

I'm always amused at the point of 'slacking off' though. I dislike Ron, for different reasons, but we're never really shown him slacking off majorly. We are shown that he does well enough in his OWLs to get into the classes required to become an Auror, which looks to be among the hardest careers to get into, which rather implies that he did well enough, quite frankly. We know he had to get an EE in transfiguration and potions, given that they were the requirements that we found out, and I find it unlikely he got anything less than that for DADA. So he didn't exactly do badly, especially since those three subjects are typically displayed as the hardest 3.

Ron isn't Hermione. He is not a straight O student. He does not work at that level. Guess what? Not many teenagers are straight A students. He is a typical teenagers, and frankly, some of the shit some of us are into, he is a model citizen by comparison.

Blaming Ron for Harry's problems is about as sensible as blaming Hermione for being there. Works fine for if you hate them. But if you don't, it really just doesn't make any sense.

 

Please no, I hate it. I hate Harry/Neville friendship fics more than anything else. I hate how they all happen in the GoF timeline. I hate it so much. Remove Longbottom.

Got nothing against Neville himself, it's just these fics tend to be annoying as hell.

Anyway, back on topic with a question: would the Aguamenti spell, to conjure up some water, be able to satiate someone's actual thirst? Or does it fall in line with the whole creating food out of nowhere?

 

Harry certainly seems to think it can in HBP when Dumbledore asks for water. Given that he's spent the whole year learning the spell (and wtf is up with that?) he's probably a reliable source.

As for conflicting with Gamp, there are a couple of ways out:

1. Water isn't food.
2. Aguamenti is a charm, not part of transfiguration.

 

I like the idea that conjured food tastes and feels real, but isnt sustenance.

I remember years ago reading a fic, where Harry captured a Death Eater and kept him at number 9, and only feed him on conjured food and water, so the guy would eat and drink, but was still wasting away, until he talked.

 

Except not all teenagers do that. Far from it in actually good schools

He blatantly uses Hermione as a crutch so he can slack off harder. Repeatedly. Sure, he occasionally does his own work, but when something gets a little difficult, he whines for the nerd.

It's quite easy to say he got into the Auror Corps out of consideration of Field Experience. Especially since it isn't confirmed whether or not Ron or Harry ever went back to finish there NEWTs

He is a C student. With some Bs thrown in. He only ever gets better or does better regularly because he gets hounded by Hermione or actively uses her as a crutch.

Up until about High School, being a straight A student or even a A/Bs student is far, far more about simply doing the fucking work than being particularly brilliant.

This is not a defense. Not an effective one at any rate.

Pay attention, because I used the Dursely's too to help get him into that mindset of intentionally being mediocre. Wouldn't want little Dudders outshined by the freak would we?

 

Would it be too much trouble to ask you to cite book and pages where this occurs repeatedly?

 

Can we please not make this a "Bash Ron" Debate Thread? I personally despise Ron Bashing (both because it involves Bashing and because I actually like Ron partially for his slacker ways), but this Thread is about asking random questions, not whether or not Ron deserves to be hated on.

To get this Thread right back on Topic: What does Canon say about the difference between Dark Magic and more mundane Magic?