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Questions that don't deserve their own thread.

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Quick Ben, Feb 1, 2012.

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  1. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    You mean by the Board of Governors? The Ministry had no direct influence IIRC, which was why this loophole to assign Umbridge became important -- although you could argue that (some) people on the board were of the same kind as Fudge (or not firmly in Dumbledore's camp, at least).

    If you were a Muggleborn and not a Pureblood, yes :p
     
  2. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I don't understand how the Muggleborn registration commission in book 7 managed to do anything.

    Like... what goes through the Muggleborn's minds?
    End of book 5: Voldemort's return is publicly acknowledged.
    End of book 6: Dumbledore dies.
    Start of book 7: Scrimgeour dies.

    Then... the government seems to turn against Muggleborns for no good reason. What could possibly be going through their heads that they wouldn't immediately flee the country? I mean, it's not like they don't even know how to use Muggle transit, they're fucking Muggleborns.

    Gah.
     
  3. Blazzano

    Blazzano Unspeakable

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    Without much supporting evidence, I have to assume that some Muggle-borns did just that - depart at some point during or just after Harry's 6th year. We wouldn't have heard about these, because the story of their vanishment would be overshadowed by all the deaths of the ones who stayed.

    Once Voldemort took over the government, things get a bit more tricky. There will be some Muggle-borns who might decide to stick it out with their born-into-magic spouses. Foolish, but there you go. There are those who will have tried to escape, but did something stupid and got caught. And perhaps a few were able to successfully melt back into Muggle society for a while.

    And then, yes: there are still questions. There were Muggle-borns (e.g. Dirk Cresswell) living on the run in the English wilderness, which is curious. Why not flee the country entirely? Did Voldemort + the Ministry have ways to track attempts to leave the country by Muggle transport? It seems rather difficult to monitor all the ways out if you have to resort to "spot checks."

    I can't think of how to resolve that without resorting to fanon. Like, some sort of magic that detects when a magical wand crosses a threshold surrounding the British Isles. That wouldn't be foolproof, but it should catch most of the international runners - wizards don't like leaving their wands behind.
     
  4. Arrowjoe

    Arrowjoe Auror

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    Is there any confirmed canon limit to the range/ability's of Apparition? Can you cross the channel/large bodies of water via Apparition? Pretty sure those are from fanon, but you never know...

    We know from GoF that Portkeys can go everywhere and anywhere, so I could see a good black market springing around them.
     
  5. Alive and Free

    Alive and Free Groundskeeper

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    There's a simpler explanation - maybe they didn't have the money to flee the country.
     
  6. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP Prestige DLP Supporter

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    Short-range plane tickets aren't that expensive, and hell, you could just use magic to get through security (especially in the 90s).
     
  7. Gallowwalker

    Gallowwalker First Year

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    They are if your money is stuck in Gringotts inside Voldemort-controlled Diagon Alley.

    As for using magic to get through security, well I guess you could argue that wizards are indoctrinated not to use magic around muggles so that might account for their hesitation to use magic to get themselves a free plane trip. If I was being snarky I'd also say that that makes too much sense and the wizards of JKR's world would never think of it.

    Quick question: in canon is Fawkes Dumbledore's pet or familiar?
     
  8. Alive and Free

    Alive and Free Groundskeeper

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    In CoS I'm pretty sure that Dumbledore calls him his pet. I think familiars are fanon - don't quote me on that though.
     
  9. Peace

    Peace High Inquisitor

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    I don't think there is. I mean in HBP Harry manages to Apparate himself and Dumbledore from somewhere in England (I presume based on the orphanage's location) to Hogsmeade in Scotland. That's an inexperienced, albeit powerful wizard. Imagine what Dumbledore could do.

    That said, I like Joe's explanation in Wastelands. Distance is limited by power and ability.

    Now about the brother wand effect - priori incantateum (sp?) - in the graveyard if Voldemort had responded to Harry's disarmer with a shield charm, would that trigger the effect? Canon says, I think, that it only happens when brother wands are forced to fight - does using a shield count as fighting or does it require two offensive spells? For that matter do the spells have to collide like in GoF? Which btw seems like a magical method of blocking the killing curse.
     
  10. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    By the same token you can ask why there were any jews left to kill for the Nazis. There's a multitude of explanations for why people don't want to leave their home, from sentimental reasons to monetary ones to hoping that it might not be that bad after all. I don't think that's so strange. People have complex reasonings, not logical ones.

    And the point of the commission being registration, I can see that it would be impossible to leave once you were registered. It implies a way to track someone for me. And now think about this: Voldemort's take-over was a Coup d'État, but he wasn't the one in the spot light. What Joe the Wizard saw was Thicknesse becoming the new Minister, not something to do with Voldemort. Hindsight is 20/20, but when it actually matters, people do like to miss the signs.

    So I wouldn't be at all surprised if lots of Muggleborns were registered (something that doesn't sound dangerous, right? -- maybe it was for their protection!) before they knew what really went on and they just had lost their chance to flee.


    And actually, this makes me want to write a OS somehow detailing that time from an outsider's POV.
     
  11. wolf550e

    wolf550e High Inquisitor DLP Supporter

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    Many Jews fled in 1933. Mostly those who had money and family overseas. It wasn't that easy to flee:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Quota_Act

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Évian_Conference

    Most of the Jews massacred weren't German: they found themselves under the control of the Reich when the place they lived in got conquered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement). Some were saved by the local government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews), a few were saved by neighbors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Righteous_Among_the_Nations), many were killed by their neighbors before the Germans arrived. My grandfather, a decorated Red Army officer, tried to get the Soviet government to prosecute those who murdered his family, but failed.

    EDIT: Sesc, your analogy does work. Sometimes people don't leave and hope for the best and don't survive to learn from this experience. Arguably, in 1996 UK, muggleborns should have known better (everyone knows registration is the first step of confiscation/destruction. Look at gun registration, for example.), but if people in Potterverse behaved rationally there would not have been a story. What I meant is that for muggles in the 1930s, there were fewer options than for wizards in the 1990s. Unless Magical France/Belgium/Netherlands/Spain/etc. were supporting Voldemort or really didn't want any British wizards, magical Britons should have been able to escape.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  12. Blazzano

    Blazzano Unspeakable

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    By "outsider," do you just mean a non-Harry POV?

    Dirk Cresswell is a great angle, IMO. A Muggle-born wizard with a wife and kids, who rose to department head level in the Ministry (Goblin Liason office), was a favorite of Slughorn, went with the "faked family tree" strategy, got caught out by Runcorn, and then was forced on the run before getting killed.

    A nice little fall from grace/tragedy, and his particular path allows the writer to cover the Voldemort Ministry era from a lot of nice angles.
     
  13. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    I think you might've missed my point, wolf. In any case, my RL analogy works exactly as I want it to, so I'm not sure what you want to point out.
     
  14. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Groundskeeper

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    Office Head not Department Head. The Ministry is divided into the seven main Departments which then contain smaller bodies (mostly called Offices but occasionally other things). Dirk Cresswell was head of the Goblin Liaison Office, which was part of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creature, much like Arthur Weasley was head of the Misuse of Muggle Artefacts Office which is part of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement.

    We can't say how important his role is without knowing how important the Goblin Liaison Office is to the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creature. Offices can vary a lot even within a Department. Being Head of the Auror Office, for example, is a world away from Arthur's two-man Misuse of Muggle Artefacts Office despite both being part of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement. We know the Centaur Liaison Office is very badly regarded but the Goblin version could be different (they didn’t throw a hissy fit and refuse Being Status for one).

    Small point, I know, but I'd thought I'd point it out. It is an interesting idea.
     
  15. Portus

    Portus Heir

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    As far as Portkeys, aren't there two types referenced in canon? IIRC, Portkeys (unqualified) and "International" Portkeys are mentioned in GoF, though there's a great chance that's just my fanon pollution shining through. What the difference would be - unless there are in fact magical boundaries around the UK - I can't say, but I'm fairly sure I read that in canon.


    Also, when D'dore creates a Portkey in front if Fudge at the end of OotP, Fudge's reaction seems to indicate its anything but cool for D'dore to be doing that.


    As for Apparation. I know I've seen it stated that only the very skilled and/or powerful wizard should attempt international Apparation. I don't know if this was in straight canon or one of the supplementary books like QTTA or FB, but I know it was a canon reference.


    Also, a great indicator of limitations on Apparation is in DH. Voldemort goes to Nurmengard, and IIRC he flies part of the way and then Apparates. Regardless, he DOES NOT Apparates all the way back. He's there and Lucius (or Bellatrix) summons him with the Dark Mark. It's stated explicitly that "soon he'll be close enough to Apparate."


    Since Voldemort is the second-most powerful wizard we see in all of canon, if HE can't Apparate from (I'm guessing) somewhere in Germany to Malfoys Manor, that to me is a pretty damn good benchmark for the limit on Apparation.
     
  16. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Groundskeeper

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    It should also be noted that in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them we are given lots of details on the Being\Beast\Spirit classification system used by the Ministry since 1811. Importantly, the definition of Being is given as "any creature that has sufficient intelligence to understand the laws of the magical community and to bear part of the responsibility in shaping those laws." Beings include Wizards, Goblins, Vampires and Hags. Merpeople and Centaurs would be Beings but refused the status (the hissy fit I mentioned a few posts ago). So if there are elections, they could well include more than just humans.
     
  17. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Yeah. If there is one thing I feel comfortable to extrapolate from Canon without direct evidence, then it's that only wizards and witches will be allowed to elect Ministers. About Squibs I'd talk, though.
     
  18. EmbroElite

    EmbroElite Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    That may just be that Nurmengard is heavily warded, and that they knew he was there and had to get far enough away to apparate. Or, possibly, that the protections on Malfoy Manor are too powerful to be breached during long distance apparation and therefore Voldemort needs to be closer. However, both of these are only acceptable if Voldemort's followers knew where he was.
     
  19. Ash

    Ash Moves Like Jagger DLP Supporter

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    I see what you did there.
     
  20. Viewtiful

    Viewtiful Seventh Year

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    Was the term 'Golden Trio' - referring to Harry, Ron and Hermione - ever used in canon? It seems to get used very often but I can't recall it being present in the books.
     
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