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Questions that don't deserve their own thread.

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Quick Ben, Feb 1, 2012.

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  1. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Maybe the Ministry of magic is funded through Muggle taxes, and each year someone in Her Majesty's Treasury has the feeling they've misplaced something.
     
  2. TRH

    TRH Groundskeeper

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    And this is why we've got to crack down on pork-barrel spending; the money always ends up in the hands of the least competent, doesn't it? ;)
     
  3. Tsar

    Tsar Sixth Year DLP Supporter

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    Why is a large portion Dark Lord Potter community, so, against the pairing: Harry/Ginny. Is it seen as a relationship that lacks substance and has no long lasting appeal or is it the fact that it's is overdone, and by extension, done badly most of the time?
     
  4. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Yeah, that stopped being a thing about 3 years ago now.
     
  5. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Noob has used Troll. It has no effect!

    [​IMG]

    Noob has become confused. Noob has hurt itself in its confusion.
     
  6. Constans

    Constans Sixth Year DLP Supporter

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    Hmm...I could go with that. Would explain why the Minister of Magic has to give updates to the PM instead of just going 'yeah, fuck Muggles'.

    Of course it could be out of sheer humanity, but observing the Wizarding World makes the statistical probability of this low enough to be discarded. Practicality could also be an issue, but the risk of leaking such information for negligible returns makes it unlikely.

    Makes me think about their oft discussed relationship with the Crown. Would they be subservient to the PM/Crown (given him being the 'first among equals') or an independent ministry/parallel institution not subservient to the Crown? I'd like to say independent (because the other is usually portrayed in many cliche fics) but given that the Parliament (and hence it's role/structure/functions) is a fair bit older than the Statute of Secrecy I think it would have to be (if not a secret) less known department under the Crown.
     
  7. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    One idea, from the Alexandra Potter thread:

    Obviously not canon. But it is canon-compliant. It has the virtue of marrying two seemingly inconsistent parts of canon: the Minister's concern with public opinion contrasted with his near-autocratic power. He worries about opinion because he is voted in, but has autocratic power because that group of voters is a small and privileged proportion of the total population.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  8. Constans

    Constans Sixth Year DLP Supporter

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    Makes sense. Only thing I'd add to that theory (mostly unimportant detail), is some more historical background. The Ministry was created to enforce the Statute. It would be reasonable to say that before the (recent) creation of the Ministry, the head of the Wizards' Council was the representative of the Privy Council and hence above answering to the Parliament. With the Statute, his post was replaced by the Cabinet Department as you mention. e.g. John Dee was present around the same time as the creation of the Stature - maybe the last Royal Wizard? Apart from the obvious reasons, it would also add a political dimension to the Ministry not caring and/or obscenely independent of the Muggle Govt. (as historically, they descended from an entire independent body directly under the Crown)?

    Side-note: Oh man, Taure you make me really want to read Alexandra Potter. Only reason I've not till now is that the one thing I've never read in fandom is gender changed main character fics...(I beginning to think I'll come around to finally reading it by the weekend at most).
     
  9. AlbusPHolmes

    AlbusPHolmes The Alchemist

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    I can't seem to remember if Sirius ever finds out about Snape's involvement in the death of James & Lily Potter. Is it ever mentioned or implied in the books?
     
  10. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Outside of the raging hard on Sirius gets from insulting him? I don't think so. Likely he only knew Snape was a Death Eater, but thats qualifier enough for Sirius to place at least a small amount of blame on him for it.
     
  11. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

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    I don't think the ministry is directly voted in by the people, as in HBP it's clearly stated Fudge was sacked, not resigned or voted out.

    I always thought the minister was chosen by the Wizengamot, which in itself would be kind of combination of British House of Commons and House of Lords. That way the public opinion would matter through the common representatives, while still maintaining a degree of aristocracy. The minister's near-autocratic powers would be explained by martial law in Bagnold's or Scrimgeour's case, or by Lucius' influence in Fudge's case.

    Also the term "minister" seems to point towards parliamentary system, as does the fact that the wizarding Britain emulates the muggle side by design.
     
  12. Constans

    Constans Sixth Year DLP Supporter

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    I think it's a mix of both.

    I've always thought that although the Wizengamot was like the House of Lords/Commons, generally the Minister (in spite of the name) was much more like a President than a Prime Minister. It explains why the Minister has such ridiculous powers, especially with regards to control over the aurors. And also his independence in so many fields. Case in point, Ministerial decrees being rather like Presidential Executive Orders.

    However, his term in office sounds rather like a Prime Minister. e.g. - Dumbledore being offered the position, past Ministers retiring.

    Your point about indirect elections makes sense though...
     
  13. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Makes me want to read an AU where Harry finds out about Snape and the prophecy earlier than canon, and tells Sirius about it. Could lead to an interesting story, what with another attempt at murder on Sirius' hands.
     
  14. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Is this the misconceptions-thread? The Wizengamot is a court. There is no indication given that it is anything else. And if you already talk about the HBP-quote, use it in it's entirety:

    “My dear Prime Minister, you can’t honestly think I’m still Minister of Magic after all this? I was sacked three days ago! The whole Wizarding community has been screaming for my resignation for a fortnight. I’ve never known them so united in my whole term of office!”

    The way I see it, the context makes it pretty clear that it was public opinion that forced him out of office. And this makes sense with the other fact we have, that the one thing Fudge is concerned about is what the public thinks about him.

    It points to a directly elected Minister. It's the easiest way to go about it, and nothing else is mentioned. It also serves as a balance: His powers are quite extensive, but if he abuses it and/or the public is dissatisfied with him, he's out of office faster than he got into it.
     
  15. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

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    It's not "nothing else is mentioned", it's "nothing much is mentioned".

    The only way I can see a minister losing his job is if there's some sort of governmental body that has power over the minister; as nothing much is mentioned I would go for system that emulates the British parliamentarism. Also the fact that Scrimgeour is in office immediately after the sacking of Fudge seems to point towards a parliamentary system, as there's no way there could have been an election with multiple candidates and countrywide campaigns in that short time (and Harry's support would surely have been sought after in such case). The Prophet also calls Scrimgeour "newly appointed minister" instead of "newly elected minister".

    It's true that Wizengamot is only ever mentioned as a court (and explicitly said to be "the Wizard High Court"), but given that it has "about fifty" members it seems pretty excessive for only that function. Being also the highest governing body would fit in well.

    I guess we'll have to wait until book five comes to Pottermore for more canon information about the Ministry of Magic.
     
  16. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Yes, and typically, the line of thought stops exactly there. Why would it be called something, and then be a different thing entirely? :confused:

    There's no question that the Wizengamot has an important function, and after all, the first thing Scrimgeour does after being appointed Minister for Magic is meet with the Chief Warlock (though the real question is if that is because of the office, or the person -- Dumbledore). But I don't see the logic behind this. If one at all wanted to posit a parliament of sorts, making up one from scratch would make more sense than this.


    That aside, I don't see where the problem is in public pressure leading to Fudge's dismissal/resignation (which is what the book says). It happens all the time in politics. And you will recall that Fudge and Scrimgeour did, in fact, try to get Harry's support, but Dumbledore blocked them.

    The one thing that's interesting is the bit about the appointment of Ministers. There's no indication given who does the appointing, though, and analogies to Muggle England clearly don't work in this case (given it's the monarch there).


    Edit: I want to quote Vash's pic. I knew there was a reason I had the idea about electing Ministers >.<

    That's a source from Rowling.
    /topic
     
  17. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    Even though Pottermore's info is of questionable quality, it's fun to watch all these fanon theories crumble into dust when something new is revealed. ;)
     
  18. Alive and Free

    Alive and Free Groundskeeper

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    Has anyone considered that maybe the public does elect the Minister but when the Minister is unable to fulfil their term in office for whatever reason the Wizengamot (or some other governmental body) appoints someone to fill the office until the next scheduled election?
     
  19. Peace

    Peace High Inquisitor

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    Does anyone have any idea of how many Death Eaters there are in canon? I know that there's a passage in OotP that might answer it (when Sirius is first telling Harry about Voldemort looking for the prophecy) but my books are in storage. Is there anything else in the books that might answer this?
     
  20. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    As I recall the graveyard scene in GoF had less than a dozen Death Eaters present, with about half a dozen more being broken out of Azkaban in OotP. Naturally there would be a few additions to this after Voldemort took over the Ministry (plus Fenrir Greyback and the Carrows after OotP), but I'd put the core number of Death Eaters at somewhere around 18, all told.

    EDIT: Apparently there are 23 Death Eaters. I forgot about the younger ones and some of the ones that escaped Azkaban.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
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