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Questions that don't deserve their own thread.

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Quick Ben, Feb 1, 2012.

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  1. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    What are the ways to destroy a Horcrux?

    What are the different ways mentioned in canon to destroy a horcrux? The ones that come to mind are:

    (1) Basilisk venom - It can be on the fang itself or imbued into something like a sword.
    (2) Fiendfyre
    (3) Killing Curse - Debatable that this would work if the horcrux wasn't in a living thing (like Harry) or even how well it would have worked against Nagini.

    Was anything else mentioned in canon as a means of killing them? Any comments on the limitations of #3?

    I guess it's possible that Dumbledore knew of other ways that he never got around to telling people. Is there anything else in canon that seems like it might work but was never proven/tried? I.e. like some other kind of corrosive poison like Basilisk venom mentioned in FBaWtFT, or anything else?

    Speaking of Basilisk venom -- it is a "poison" in the sense that a bezoar could help with it I wonder? As far as I know the main difference in venom and poison is that venom is "always" injected in some way whereas poison can be imbibed or absorbed. I'd guess "no" it wouldn't work, but just thought of that.
     
  2. Thaumologist

    Thaumologist Fifth Year ~ Prestige ~

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    The difference (AFAIK) between venom and poison is delivery.

    Venom is active - stingers, spurs, and so forth.
    Poison is passive - being eaten, etc.

    So I don't think there is any real difference between the two. They're both toxic, and to varying degrees, and can have different effects.
     
  3. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I always thought "poison" was a general word for anything that is harmful - substances from plants, animals, chemicals, etc.

    Whereas venomous refers specifically to poison from animals.
     
  4. Thyestean

    Thyestean Slug Club Member

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    The terms poison and venom are often used interchangeably, but they actually have very different meanings. It is the delivery method that distinguishes one from the other.

    Poison is absorbed or ingested; a poisonous animal can only deliver toxic chemicals if another animal touches or eats it.

    Venom, on the other hand, is always injected. Every venomous animal has a mechanism to inject toxins directly into another animal. Stab with tails. Slash with spines. Pierce with fangs. Spike with spurs. Shoot with harpoons. Chew with teeth.
     
  5. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Right, so, does anyone have an idea about the Horcrux question?

    I guess as far as the venom goes one could decide that bezoar would or wouldn't work on venom and it'd be fine so long as they were consistent.

    Thanks
     
  6. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Professor

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    To quote wikipedia,
    By way of interest (one might even say Quite Interesting...), there are only two poisonous snakes: the Japanese grass snake, and the common garter snake. There are, of course, many venomous snakes.

    On the topic of horcruxes, and at the risk of being pedantic, I'd point out there's only one way to destroy a horcrux and that's by destroying it's container beyond magical ability to repair. The three things you mentioned are things which are, in certainer circumstances, able to do that.

    Anything able to do this is able to destroy a horcrux, and that could well change depending on the nature of the container. Harry's scar-horcrux wasn't destroyed by Basilisk venom because Harry survived; he wasn't destroyed beyond magical ability to repair. However, stabbing him in the heart and killing him would, imo, destroy the horcrux. Harry is dead, and that's just about the ultimate 'can't be repaired' under Harry Potter magic.

    On the subject of bezoars, I will remind people that they only "save you from most poisons". No all.
     
  7. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Nice post Glimmervoid. I'm out of thumbs up though.

    Good, good. Thanks for reminding me of this. That is excellent. I do find it odd that basilisk venom is able to destroy physical objects (like a diary) but I guess it's not that far out there.

    That brings to mind another question though... If Riddle's diary had managed to drain Ginny's life energy and "come to life" or whatever he was trying to do, would the diary have then ceased to be the container for the horcrux? He'd have had a body of some kind (apparently) at that point. Maybe it was a way of shifting the horcrux from one place to another.

    Interesting, thanks!
     
  8. Thyestean

    Thyestean Slug Club Member

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    I would think the new body would have to have a soul, therefore needing the horcrux to move to the body. But the diary is a tricky topic in my opinion. It was designed to absorb the deepest and darkest secrets/desires of the individual, however, how does this lead him to getting the new body we see at the end of the second book. He doesn't take Ginny's body or soul, so how does he have enough energy or magic or whatever the fuck he is taking, to generate a new body to house his horcrux.

    Also, if does work that way, why would you ever make a horcrux differently. It seems much easier to pass someone the diary, have them write in it, and come back to life, than the ritual. You wouldn't even need a lackey. Just put it in a library with wards that will fail when you die. Someone checks it out, and new body inc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  9. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

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    Is it even certain that it's the Horcrux part that makes the objects more or less indestructible, or did Voldemort just add a shitload of other charms to them to make them so? Harry is a Horcrux but it's not like curses bounce off from him.
     
  10. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Strictly speaking, Harry isn't a horcrux. He's horcrux-like. He would keep Voldemort tethered to life, so he functions in a similar way, but he isn't a proper horcrux.
     
  11. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Voldemort obviously added something to the diary other than a bit of his soul, otherwise the other horcruxes would be capable of showing off memories and returning him to life... yeah? Or maybe they could and we just never saw those bits, but that's a bit farfetched.

    So I guess it stands to reason that Voldemort added a bunch of protection to stuff. Fiendfyre and Basilisk venom just happen to be two substances that you can't really defend against? Sort of like a killing curse in a way, though presumably a killing curse wouldn't "kill" an inanimate object (could argue that the curse itself works by doing something to the soul though, which would mean it should work on the other objects, but that'd be almost too simple).

    ---------- Post automerged at 02:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

    Can you elaborate on this?

    What's the difference here? I might be forgetting a definition of horcrux somewhere, but I thought it was just a bit of soul that got ripped off and stuck somewhere and was tethering the rest of the soul to life. Which is what Harry does.

    I think JKR said at one point that Quirrell acted as a temporary horcrux even, though that was a weird case since the bit of soul he was housing was the main bit and could exist without him.
     
  12. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Pottercast.
     
  13. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Professor

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    This quote from Deathly Hallows is highly relevant. First, phoenix tears are said to the be the only antidote to basilisk venom so definitely no bezoar. Second, the possession power seems to be common to all horcrux. Whether the memory trick and coming alive is separate or just the end-game is unknown. Finally, adding extra enchantments to horcrux to supplement there natural defences seems to be recommended.
     
  14. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Remember, though, that a Horcrux has to be damaged beyond the possibility of magical repair to be destroyed. So protective enchantments seem somewhat pointless: the only spells capable of destroying a Horcrux are also those capable of overcoming protective enchantments.

    So I'm not sure if the spells on Horcruxes are protective. Rather, they're aggressive. Malicious curses to attack people who get near them.

    On the topic of gaining a new body: remember that Ginny first had to feed Voldemort her soul for him to gain a new body. Not sure if the other Horcruxes have a means of being fed (though maybe this was what was happening in DH when they were wearing the locket).
     
  15. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Awesome you two, totally awesome. Thanks very much.
     
  16. Warlocke

    Warlocke Fourth Champion

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    How many, outside the U.K., caught this?

    It says something about how much I enjoy the show that I grin at the mere mention of it.

    Say that again, but with a monocle and, maybe, a top hat... 'cause that's what I'm seeing in my mind's eye, anyway.

    Britain: Nothing but a 'proper' horcrux will do.


     
  17. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Love that show. Watched an episode of it this morning actually.
     
  18. Doctor Whooves

    Doctor Whooves High Inquisitor

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    Well, we don't want any of those foreign horcruxes coming over and stealing our horcruxes' jobs, now do we?

    Back in my day, horcruxes were horcruxes, none of this fancy 'almost-horcrux' rubbish.
     
  19. afrojack

    afrojack Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    When Slughorn comes back to teach in 1996, does he take over as the Slytherin head of House? Dumbledore doesn't clarify either way at the Feast.

    I suppose this leads into the larger question of whether being head of House has to do with what subject is being taught (besides of course, the professor having been in that House as a student). Or could the Gryffindor head teach Potions, say? We know she correlated each house to an element, so is Slytherin/Water being correlated with Potions, Ravenclaw/Air with Charms, Hufflepuff/Earth with Herbology, and so on? I'm assuming that only professors of a certain caliber would be allowed to teach those subjects, if that was the case.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  20. Bill Door

    Bill Door The Chosen One DLP Supporter

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    I'm pretty sure that Snape stayed as head of Slytherin for HBP. Slughorn took over in DH when Snape was Headmaster.

    I don't think that the houses had anything to do with individual subjects. Neville went on to become the professor of Herbology, but he was in Gryffindor.
     
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