And Dumbledore had already put on the ring by this point, so even if nothing happened to him he knew he didn't have long to live.

 

How much of the Dumbledore in King's Cross is Harry's mental construct, or is it thought to have been a genuinely otherworldly experience? Just a question I had while posting in another thread.

 

Because if its not actually Dumbledore all the information comes from Harry, if its really Dumbledore's spirit then information provided comes from him.

I only comment because of the other thread talking about Harry's knowledge of wand lore being a strength of his. If it's actually Dumbledores knowledge then it makes Harry "weaker" but if it's just Harry then it implies he has knowledge pertaining to esoteric magics. Even if he has to hallucinate to consciously figure them out.

 

I am reminded of a quote from from the Longmire book series, specifically the one entitled 'Hell Is Empty', and I say this only because it is relevant; "Just because he is dead does not mean that he was not there."

 

Such black and white thinking.

I ask you this.... Why does the information have to come from somewhere? Why can't it just be.

In the Potterverse, Seers use their magic to speak prophecy. Does someone give them knowledge of the future? No... they just access it. It doesn't come from anywhere.

In that singular moment when the Killing Curse struck, Harry was presented with a choice: to either live or "board a train" for the great beyond.

I like to think that in that state of 'between', Harry was able to open his mind to truth, which, of course, came to him in the form of Dumbledore.

 

That's just as important. Then that means it comes from some 3rd source.

Some unknown ether where prophecies also happen to come from is also a source. If it's god, its still a source. If it's some vague definition of magic it's a source.


And prophecies do come from somewhere. We just don't have a fucking clue where.



But that's not really what I was talking about anyways. I was talking about the concept of debating Harry's skill in magic. If you consider Harry's skill in various esoteric magic a strength, you look to where it says that. Which brings you to the platform scene. The spirit Dumbledore talks about various powers of love magic, the hallows, and wand lore. That's specific esoteric knowledge. if it's all in Harry's head/imagination, then that means it's Harry's knowledge - proof of his skill even.. If it's literally Dumbledore's dead spirit talking, then Dumbledore is good at esoteric magic, not Harry. If it's some spontaneous spiritualness answering, then it's also not Harry's knowledge.

So I meant it mattered for the purposes of argument and debate. It doesn't matter for metaphysical reasons.

 

Not necessarily. Truth is set in stone. It's absolute.

Perhaps Harry simply went from a state of ignorance to a state of knowing. Perhaps he simply saw truth.

Makes quite a bit of sense in terms of Dumbledore's quote.

Agree to disagree. I don't believe that the future 'exists' in any tangible form. I believe that the future IS, and that Seers simply have the ability to glimpse it.

 

Yeah that's definitely a metaphysical debate I'm not touching lol.

The 2nd edited part of my post was the more actual relevant bit.

 

I knew what you were talking about even without the edit. The point still stands.

If you look at it my way, you don't need to ponder whether or not Harry knew magic he shouldn't have.

 

Oh okay, I think I see where you're coming from now.

 

You'd be amazed how poorly this line of reasoning works in real life. :awesome

 

I think JKR intended for the King's Cross scene to be ambiguous. But in the end so much original information is revealed which Harry can't have known otherwise that it seems almost certain that it's really Dumbledore.

 

In an universe where Seers exist and it is about someone with a title like Master of Death you can actually make a pretty good argument that it is, in fact, a dream.

 

Master of Death isn't actually a thing, though. That's the point. The Master of Death is the person who accepts that death cannot be mastered.

 

While that was the realization of the youngest and wisest brother, he was never in possession of all three Hallows, and neither was Harry, for that matter, IIRC. I think accepting death may only be the final step to actually becoming Master of Death and gaining some kind of immortality/omnipotence. Isn't a similar kind of paradoxical process involved in the creation of the traditional philosopher's stone?

 

JKR: “the real Master of Death accepts that he must die, and that there are much worse things in the world of the living.”

From the July 30th 2007 Bloomsbury Live Chat.

 

I just suggested a possibility, you just posted about what an author intends is not necessarily how one thing is read as. Subjective things are subjective, if the author wanted it to be subjective it follows you can interpret it in multiple ways.

 

Is anyone else not getting story alerts from FFnet? I know for certain that I'm not getting alerts even though some stories have definitely been updated (e.g. Something Wicked This Way Comes just updated and I didn't get a message, there are probably more I've not seen).

The last alert I got was on the 11th (shell of the god-king).