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Realistic way that "Muggle" Britain could have gotten involved?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Malcolm Tucker, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. Hashasheen

    Hashasheen Half-Blood Prince

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    Edit: Never mind.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
  2. Red Aviary

    Red Aviary Hogdorinclawpuff ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    The Wizengamot seems to be based on this, so I imagine that it's pretty similar in structure and function. Just magically based.
     
  3. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    It's been a while for me to, but I'd wager that it's light enough on the details that you could twist the Wizengamot into practically any shape without giving even the most pedantic of canon-whores cause for complaint - it seems vaguely like a parallel to the High Court, except with the Judge being the Minister and the Jury being 50 permanent or semi-permanent positions that are decided in some never-explained way. And as for the Ministry itself, it's equal parts vague and retarded - the Minister is the only elected position, and never is it said who votes, exactly, and all other positions seem to be dictated by said Minister. And apparently one guy held the top job for thirty-eight fucking years between 1865 and 1903.

    I think the best course for any writer that wants to get political is to chalk this up to 'it was written by an uneducated single mother' and tear everything down but the labels.
     
  4. Hashasheen

    Hashasheen Half-Blood Prince

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    This.

    Personally, I'd go with a Warlock's Council being the most learned scholars and elders in the British Wizarding community. Men like Dumbledore, Flamel, etc... who'd represent the judiciary. Then there's the executive in the Minister for Magic. Now, since British election procedure like IRL Britain don't seem feasible unless we're going with wizard districts in muggle cities and provinces, so we might have to just go to a straight election with the guy with the most votes getting the position. Department positions would be a mix of nepotism and politicking, and be pretty similar to the Ministries IRL. As to what could compose the legislative, that could be the Wizengamot who'd be the Parliament.
     
  5. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    Here's my idea for a Wizengamot origin that I've shamelessly ripped off from the tribe system in King of Dragon Pass.

    Representatives from a number of groups that contribute whatever the hell they're best at in exchange for what everyone else is contributing plus mutual defence and another layer of diplomacy between you and those godawful blood feuds that can bring anyone to ruin. Like, say... Hogwarts that supplies quality education to the family/subjects/serfs/chattal/whatever of the members, merchant alliances that give top-shelf access to wands and potions and whatnot at less-gougey-than-usual prices, combat-sorcerer monasteries that add extra heft to the mutual defence part of the deal, wizard-kings with vast tracts of farmland to supply all the primary industry bollocks, the possibilities are pretty much limitless. And you end up with a group of however many chosen representatives of a pretty big chunk of the movers and shakers of the magical world, who together can coordinate to maintain the status quo that keeps them all in power and respond to any emergent threats, as well as providing each other with whatever it is they do best.

    Sort of a cross between NATO and the Hanseatic League.
     
  6. Portus

    Portus Heir

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    Yep, I've seen that before as well; couldn't avoid rolling my eyes until I saw this additional possible meaning on Wikipedia:

    "Mugwump Specific", a patent medicine for venereal disease in the late 19th century.

    Rowling trolling?
     
  7. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    If a Mugwump Specific cures one venereal disease... does a Supreme Mugwump cure them all?
     
  8. Portus

    Portus Heir

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    Jonas-Salk!Dumbledore <-- Somebody write this. :-/
     
  9. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    He was given his title for inventing the Prophylaxis Charm.
     
  10. Kensington

    Kensington Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    The only reason I think that wizards would ultimately lose a hypothetical Muggle/Wizard war is that for some reason in 1691, wizards were scared enough of muggles to sign the International Statute of Secrecy to hide from the muggles. Muggles have gotten a bit better at killing people/things in the following 300 years. Granted, a smart wizard could easily use the muggles technology and such against them, but in canon we don't really see smart wizards, do we?

    Conclusion: Arguing that fictional wizards and witches could defeat muggles is a pointless argument. Hell, I'm sure a truly motivated author could write it where the centaurs rise up and conquer both muggle and wizards. As always, it will be up to the author to create a convincing story to advocate their views and immerse the reader in it.
     
  11. Portus

    Portus Heir

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    Protego Little Albus!
    Expecto Jimmie Hatz!
    Expecto Dong Sarong!

    Dumble-Salk's Patronus isn't a phoenix like Harry thought; rather, it's a giant Fleshlight. :awesome
     
  12. Blaise

    Blaise Golden Patronus

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    [2:55pm] Taure: " Waiting for Taure... "
    [2:55pm] Taure: Lol
    [2:55pm] • Taure is avoiding the hell out of that thread.
    [2:56pm] JBlaise: lol
    [2:56pm] Taure: The plot idea was just shit >_<
    [2:58pm] JBlaise: You had to read it?
    [2:58pm] JBlaise: I just saw the thread title
    [2:58pm] JBlaise: and lol'd
    [2:59pm] Taure: It doesn't look like I'm required.

    /me is throwing members under the bus today
     
  13. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    Wait, so if we keep our discussions to horrible threads started by idiots, they'd be entirely Taure-free?

    This changes everything!
     
  14. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    He missed out a key line lol.

    On topic, vaguely: With respect to the Wizengamot, my own idea is that it was formed following some kind of wizarding civil war which the previous power (The Warlock's Council) lost. From the various side-books JKR has written there are references to the Warlock's Council up to the early 1600s. Sometime between then and the 1700s the Ministry was formed. This coincides with the English civil war, and we know JKR likes the Muggle and magical worlds to mirror each other e.g. WW2 and Grindelwald.

    Edit:

    The State of Secrecy isn't necessarily motivated by fear. In PoA Harry's book said that Muggles were very bad at catching genuine wizards and when they did they were normally ineffective. In PS hagrid's first reaction, upon questioned about secrecy, was the desire not to be bothered. Grindelwald and Dumbledore seemed pretty sure that wizards could secure dominance over Muggles.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to allow that fear is not the only possible motivation of the Statute of Secrecy. Hiding does not appear to have harmed wizards at all: they can still go about their daily lives however they like. If a Muggle is exposed to magic, they can just be Obliviated. On the other hand, there are obvious benefits to Muggles not knowing about wizards. So, given that it has benefits and no obvious costs, the Statute of Secrecy seems perfectly rational even without fear as a motivation.

    I think the only way that it would indicate fear on the part of the wizards would be if we assumed wizards in general were power hungry blood thirsty murderers who would dominate Muggles if they had the chance, and therefore the fact that they haven't indicates that they couldn't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
  15. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    Fuck, it didn't work.

    Apparently Taure is DLP's Bloody Mary: if his name is said thrice...

    ...he appears and ruins everything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
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