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Ron's influence on Harry

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ChosenOne, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign Prestige

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    You see, @LordPotter, there's a reason why you picked such a stupid name for DLP.
     
  2. Plotless

    Plotless Professor

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    If there was a "DLP annoying new member" bingo board he would be pretty good though.
     
  3. Anarchy

    Anarchy Totally Sirius DLP Supporter

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    Someone should make this a thing. It won't be long now before he starts posting bad stories into review.
     
  4. LordPotter

    LordPotter Squib

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    Ron lovers can't handle the truth. If Harry had hooked up only with Hermione, or even better, some Slytherins, he would have had much greater chance against Voldemort.
    The world would be much better off with someone teaching Weasleys about the wonders of contraception...
     
  5. Zombie

    Zombie John Waynes Teeth Prestige DLP Supporter

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    You're pretty much everything thats wrong with the fandom and you achieved that in fewer words than most people have wasted on this thread. Get that fucking mouth-breathing muggle-net shit the fuck out of here. You're not even attempting to discuss anything.

    There is nothing wrong with Ron as a character, he was the flawed-friend arch-type. As Taure said, in 7 years of canon history, he only turned his back twice. What you feel about the Ron/Hermione ship is relative only to you, and while you might find people that share your sentiments, most people here don't like Harry/HR, and they don't like Ron/Hermione. They moved past Chess Master General!Ron in 2006 when things like that actually meant something.

    IRL, people are much more duplicitous and fickle. Ron is much better than that. Don't get me wrong, I don't like him, mostly because I've seen him portrayed badly wayyy too many times. Which at this point if you're reading HPFF for the ship, then you're approaching it the wrong way.
     
  6. Mal'sSerenity

    Mal'sSerenity First Year

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    Oh no, here we go again. We already have an open thread for people to argue about the integrity of Ron's character. Do we really need two of them?
     
  7. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Order Member

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    Troll, in the dungeon.
     
  8. Dystopian Destiny

    Dystopian Destiny Third Year

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    People pick on Ron because he is the only one of the trio with a realistic character.

    By the way, just some food for thought...

    Why is it that after Ron left and returned, Harry seemed to have acquired a tiny (mind you, just a tiny) bit of dumbledore-sque wisdom?

    I mean no 17 year old would have made decisions as Harry did, there was a certain tone added to Harry after Ron's abandonment.

    I am sure that his working out the mastery of the Elder Wand caught many of you off guard( despite lack of logic, tis magic!).

    He seemed to me a curious mixture of patience, desperation, and a little bit of (over-average)intelligence?

    Snape would not have recognized that rule breaking dunderhead.

    Did something happen there, or was it just the author?
     
  9. Rehio

    Rehio Heir DLP Supporter

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    I get the feeling that you're trying to imply something.

    What that something is, I have no idea.
     
  10. Sorrows

    Sorrows Unspeakable Prestige DLP Gold Supporter

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    Or perhaps quite simply Harry should be held responsible for his own schoolwork/attitude towards learning/life direction. He made his own choices after all. It's not like he didn't have all the support in the world from Hermione's side to hit the books had he wanted too and all the motivation from Voldemort to apply himself.

    Harry was always a normal teenager despite extraordinary circumstances. He made normal teenage choices. There's no need to find a scapegoat just cos he didn't go all Gary Stu in the last three books.
     
  11. Agent One

    Agent One Seventh Year DLP Supporter

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    Something I realised the other day when I was reading the books is that I really want a Ron Centric story where Harry was never born.

    Canon Ron is a much better character than Canon Harry. I don't mean that Ron is a more Good person in comparison to Harry, I just mean that Ron has more definable character traits than Harry. Harry's pretty much a blank slate when it comes to his personality but that's mainly because he's meant to be a stand in for the readers. And that works for the books but read any Fanfiction and Harry's personality is more definitive than that in the books.

    Hermione is Rowling and essentially (but not really) a Marry Sue.

    That leaves Ron as the only "Organic" character. His personality and character traits are something a lot of us can relate to. He's funny (Though most of the time not on purpose), he's loyal to his friends (When he's not being influenced by a magical object), he has an overbearing mother (Who he still loves) and feels like he won't amount to anything.

    Yeah, he leaves his homework and revision to the last minute but he actually does hand in his homework and he actually does pass his exams. Sure, he didn't get any Os but he did get a couple Es. As someone who got less than stellar grades for A Level, I like to think that not being as smart as everyone else isn't something that makes you an arsehole. Admittedly, I actually aced my GCSEs which I didn't revise for but messed up my A-Levels which I religiously studied for.

    Ron is, in my opinion, the most relateable character in the entire series.
     
  12. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Order Member

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    You know what, I actually agree with you. It sucks when someone wastes their potential. How many people are out there that could have been something really good, if it weren't for that one major influence on their lives. You know, the one that meant they didn't have to work hard, not study, and do little to no actual homework. Who knows what would have happened if that one person wasn't in Harry's life at all, and he could have the chance to actually learn Magic on his own initiative, without an easy button right there.

    I'm talking, of course, of Hermione's influence on Harry.

    You see, Hermione is a ridiculously smart person that is always there to help Harry and Ron in every single way, shape or form. Does it involve searching through books? Hermione's there. Do you need to write some essays? Hermione will do it for you after some grumbling. Stuck on a particular potion or spell? Hermione will tell you what to do.

    For all seven years Harry and Ron knew Hermione, she was always there to do a massive chunk of the actual work. And much like a math student too dependent on Wolfram Alpha, they kind of don't spend as much real effort on all the real nitty-gritty work. If you took away Hermione, both of their grades could potentially suffer, because they don't have their own Wikipedia to explain shit.

    For all the people out there that want to complain about Ron dragging Harry down, so few want to acknowledge that the opposite could be true, that Hermione is dragging both of them down. If anything, I'd genuinely love to read a Fic where Harry and Ron never befriend Hermione, the two have to do all their own work, and ultimately become better and smarter wizards for it.
    1. Hang on, I'm confused. What does being a Ron-lover have to do with Harry's love life? Do you think people who like Ron want him and Harry to be in a relationship?

    2. What does being in a relationship with a Slytherin matter? Who is this Slytherin you think would make a big difference in regards to Voldemort? Is this Arbitrary Slytherin for or against Voldemort? What about their family? Are they politically/financially influential, or just some random schmucks? I want answers!

    3. Would you mind elaborating that bit about how Harry's love life would matter in the fight against Voldemort? Please, tell me how a teenager ever stood a serious chance in fighting a 70 year old, powerful, intelligent dark wizard in his prime? I'm serious, I'd like to know what kind of tricks and magic Harry can get from poontang.

    4. And why is it so important the Weasleys learn about contraception? Isn't it possible wizards are perfectly familiar with contraception, and they just chose not to use it because they both want lots of children? Isn't it possible that Magic Medicine makes childbirth far more comfortable and less painful than it is for us? Isn't it possible that with so many wizarding families seemingly only having the one kid, their the only ones bothering to make sure the wizarding population keeps growing. And isn't it possible that badmouthing a poor family solely because they had a bunch of children is a little bit classist and bigoted on your part, a remnant belief from the eugenics idea that poor people were somehow not deserving of passing along their lines?

    Tell me, LordPotter. Isn't. It. Possible?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  13. Harrylover

    Harrylover Banned

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    I agree. Harry with would be much better off without Ron and Hermione. I never liked them as his friends and always kept him from fulfilling his potential.

    As for your what would happen without Hermione?

    Harry becomes more independent and happy without Hermione constant bossing. Harry starts doing his homework on his own and become better because he has to think for himself.

    Given his attitude and interests, Ron will just content himself with turning in worse work and getting worse marks. Ron fails all of his classes and becomes very lazy.
     
  14. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Order Member

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    I keep reading people say Ron's lazy, but is he though?

    He doesn't actively avoid doing homework, he just grumbles while doing it. He didn't fail any of his OWL exams, and he even got an EE in Potions of all things. Hell, even Snape never seemed to grumble about Ron, which suggests he's reasonably competent at Potions (or at least better than Neville).

    Also, I think it's worth mentioning their first Potions homework in OOTP. Both Harry and Ron submit their own work, and Ron was the one who got higher marks (a P, compared to Harry's D). Both failed, sure, but the lazy Ron still managed better than the supposedly secret genius Harry.
     
  15. Sorrows

    Sorrows Unspeakable Prestige DLP Gold Supporter

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    You know I never understand why people think having Ron or Hermione as friends stymied his potential. If anything they probably saved him from becoming severely effected by his childhood. Harry grew up neglected, physically neglected and especially emotionally neglected. He received no positive attention, praise, love either from the Dursley or as far as we can tell, anyone outside of his family from a year old untill he is 11.

    Those are some very key periods of neurodevelopment. As a child, your experiences literally shape the structure of your developing brain, if you don't get the right stimulation at the right times, it can have permanent effects on how you react to experiences at a neurological level for the rest of your life. An example would be a child that does not have the speech centers of there brain stimulated before the age of about 5 will likely never fluently pick up language. Anxiety can be transmitted intergeneratinally, not through just genetics but through the sensitization of stress-responses from modelling an anxious's parent reactions. Kids that suffer the kind of neglect Harry goes through (in canon, not the fanon shit) are usually affected in all sorts of ways, they often have emotional regulation difficulties, problems forming attachments, impulse control issues, low self-esteem ... thie list goes on. book Harry is really way to well adjusted for his past, (if he was treated the same as we see from toddlerhood without any migrating factors from the outside. )

    A child like Harry, who never had a healthy attachment to anyone (that he can remember) in reality would probably have a hard time forming attachments even by 11 (though early parental experiences would have migrated this a little.) From that point of view Ron, and later Hermione were probably the best things that could have happened for him. They more than anyone else let him form a healthy long lasting attachments for the first time in his life. The Weasleys by extension showered him with affection, inclusion and praise while modeling what a healthy family looks like. While the foundations of Harrys neurobiological development have been effected by neglect and later contributing experiences of trauma, his experiences with love, praise, loyalty and support particularly from those closest to him were migrating /protective factors at a key point him his development that allowed him to develop into a well-adjusted adult.

    That's not to say that Harry could not have found loyal friends in other houses, but how many large well-adjusted families do we meet that could have done what the Weasely's did for him?
     
  16. Dystopian Destiny

    Dystopian Destiny Third Year

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    Ooh..
    I would not rely upon Snape's judgement in any thing he perceives the Potter spawn to be involved in. Also, he is a secret genius right?:rrou:

    The problem is that this sort of hypothesis is essential immune to proofs against it. Best ignore such theories.

    In canon, he was at most guilty of encouraging Harry to play when Hermione was trying to get them to study and that, to be honest was one of the only realistic(plot wise) parts of canon.

    However I seem to remember repeated scenes of Ron requesting Hermione to lend her notes and homework? Someone please check this fact...

    @Sorrows

    What separated Harry from Voldemort?

    Both grew up in less than desirable environments.

    I don't believe it lies in choices. Choices are not as free as everyone believes.
     
  17. telecaster11

    telecaster11 First Year

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    It's pretty clear in the books that Harry dislikes studying just as much as Ron- Ron is just more vocal about his dislike and doesn't mind disagreeing with Hermione. Ron gets a lot of hate for being "lazy" but Hermione can be over the top sometimes too, just in the opposite way.

    Harry wouldn't have come close to defeating Voldemort without the love and support of the Weasleys (and Dumbledore), no matter what "Slytherin!Harry is raised by the neutral Greengrass family" fics may think. Harry's greatest strength is his moral code, and his devotion to those he loves.

    On a side note, if Ron had pulled a Boromir and died heroically saving Colin and Dennis Creevey would people like him more?

    That would make an interesting fic- Ron dies and then an inconsolable Hermione throws herself into Mount Doom with the last Horcrux, thus defeating Voldemort and consigning poor Harry to a life of angst.
     
  18. Sorrows

    Sorrows Unspeakable Prestige DLP Gold Supporter

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    How similar Harry and Toms upbringings are is difficult to quantify beyond the thematic similarities. Tom probably also dealt with emotional neglect and possibly physical abuse however beyond that the effect of various risk/mediating/protective factors that influenced his psychological development are probably quite different beyond the fact that they were both removed from that environment and sent to Hogwarts at the same age.

    In Developmental Psychology there is something called the biopsychosocial model, which attempts to map the various biological, psychological and social influences on a persons life and the risk and protective factors they cause. For instance, in Toms case, there could be a biological/ genetic disposition towards psychopathy or mental illness from that Gaunts that coupled with the emotional neglect of his childhood and lack of healthy attachments at the orphanage meant that his ability to empathize with people or form healthy emotional bonds was permanently stunted. You could also see why blood purity appealed to him so much, especially as it and its founder happened to make him, a halfblood nobody orphan in Slytherin practically wizard royalty. It confirmed the only thing he had to give him self-worth in the orphanage (his magic) as superior in spectacular fashion while putting him at the top of the tree in for the first time ever. Not to mention Tom Riddle went to school in the 40's eugenics and the idea of 'bad blood' etc were plenty popular at the time, especially in the late 30's early 40's This was some years before the Holocaust and there was plenty of support for the idea of 'lesser races.'

    Harry on the other hand may have also had a crappy neglected childhood, but he got on that train and found a boatload of support, self-worth attachment from completely different sources. For one thing the very reason people admired him/his parents dies for him etc, was that he stood in opposition of those ideals, he doesn't need them to make him important in his own mind, he literally already is from the moment he arrived at Diagon Ally. Additionally having grown up without these prejudices, but with many similar ones portrayed as evil (Nazis) , there is no real reason why canon!Harry would be drawn to the philosophy of blood purity. As for being drawn to the 'dark side' of magic. He certainly had his share of repeated trauma and desperate circumstances which can disninhibit emotional regulation and desensitize him to violence, he also is seen and to an extent sees himself as a hero or one of the good guys. His mentors and influences largely prescribe to a more moral application of magic at a philosophical level partically in comparison to their opposition, at least on the surface. If he rejected that he would be rejecting a large part of his groups and his own identity. Considering this is the first group he has ever really been accepted into the power of their hold on his moral philosophy and subsiquent world view is incredibly strong (e.g 'Not slytherin, anything but slytherin' after 2 conversations.)

    Ok enough psychoanalyzing Harry Potter for me and back to doing actual essays.
     
  19. Methos

    Methos Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    How much Harry and Ron used Hermione as their magical wikipedia is true?
    In first year Harry did sneak off to the restricted section to look for who was Nicholas Flamel, I wonder if he showed willingness to enter the library in other situations.

    Did Harry or Ron ever done research for their Essay, a research that require loaning books from the Library?
    Btw, Did Harry ever said no to either Hermione or Ron? when one pushed toward Chess/Quidditch and other study more, he told them he goes to do his own thing?

    I also remember 4th year, that it was Hermione who did most of the research and choosing spells for Harry to train in them.
    I don't remember Harry taking active part in the research and finding new spells.

    Than again he was under much stress, at some point I think Harry doesn't really know what to do, how or what he is suppose to do in certain situations that aren't action/combat.
    I don't expect him to have the perfect answer, just some inkling toward some role.

    Harry had some looming over him shadow that threaten him, over there wasn't immediate threat of your dorms mate that are there to get you, or you wish to prove better than them, that might have drove Tom.

    I think it was Harry drive to be normal and how he visioned normal was part of his problem.

    He didn't have goals that he knew what he has to do, in order to reach them.
    Except maybe third year, with the Patronus, there was clear goal and way.
    Maybe part of 4th year, when Hermione gave him challenge to master list of spells.
    6th year with the apparition ?

    I think it was the yearly return to the Dursley that also fucked him up, if he had those months to relax and decompress while also having other types of fun beside what was Hogwarts and interact with other people things might have change.

    That is why I slowly trying to figure out a wild adventure for Harry post 3rd year, with Sirius in the summer, he take him out of the Dursley without Dumbledore saying so.

    I admit it was a decade at least since I read last time HP books, so if i remember things wrong, i will apricate to be corrected.
     
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