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Ron's influence on Harry

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ChosenOne, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. ThatGreekLady

    ThatGreekLady Fourth Year

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    Ok, I think I want to analyze it a bit more. Was Ron dragging Harry down?

    I don't think so and I doubt Rowling wanted it to be viewed that way. Harry was a decent student but I don't think he was a nerd. He always seemed much happier when he was playing Quidditch or just relaxing. Ron wasn't that bad of student either and his OWL results proved that. He got more OWLs than Fred and George combined.

    Here's the thing: even when Ron and Harry weren't talking to each other in GoF, Harry was still mostly bored with studying. It was mentioned that he wasn't having fun at all spending time with Hermione in the library and that he missed playing around with Ron. Surely if Harry was some secret bookworm, his true self would have come out then?

    However, even if we were to assume that Ron was dragging Harry down, I still don't see where's the problem. Grades are not the most important thing in life. Having fun is just as important especially for someone like Harry who had to endure a lot of stress in his life. If Harry was happy, who are we to judge him? The kid probably needed some fun after everything he had been through.
     
  2. Crash

    Crash Third Year

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    What if Ron had the makings of a genius and Harry was the bad influence who smothered his potential?
     
  3. AgentSatan

    AgentSatan First Year

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    What if *gasp* teenagers don't pay attention in school and find it boring? Lots of teenagers have potential but waste it. Harry seems to not care about anything not directly related to defeating Voldemort. Ron may be lazy, but Harry seems to have the same attitude towards school. The theory about Ron causing Harry to not care is BS, but Ron might exasperate this deficiency in Harry.
     
  4. ThatGreekLady

    ThatGreekLady Fourth Year

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    People are talking as if Harry and Ron were terrible students when all evidence shows that they were above average and probably the top students after Hermione among the Gryffindors of their year. They both got more OWLs than Fred and George combined and the fact that Ron was the second choice for prefect after Harry shows that he was probably a better student than Neville, Seamus, Dean.

    Why do people find it so important to be at the top of the class? Grades are not the most important thing in life. Harry and Ron both did well, there's no reason why they had to be at the top of the school.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  5. DarthBill

    DarthBill The Chosen One

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    To be honest, I just don't think the Harry Potter books were aimed at kids with my disposition.

    Harry and Ron were both pretty average dudes. They did well enough in school, but were more interested in sports and goofing off, and their "smart" friend was almost completely obnoxious about school.

    There wasn't a depiction of any student that was genuinely excited to be learning. Even Hermione came across as doing it just for grades and to be better than everyone else. Why the fuck wasn't anyone interest in learning magic? It's magic!

    I guess it just wouldn't have been an interesting book if it was about a few nerds who were content to sit in the corner talking quietly amongst themselves and study how to re-write reality.
     
  6. AgentSatan

    AgentSatan First Year

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    I think that Hermione did have that wonder, but also really cared about grades. It's possible to have both. What you're missing, however, is that Ron grew up in a world of magic so it's normal for him. In the beginning of Sorcerers Stone Hermione even has wonder, but my theory is that magic became more and more normal after the passing years. If you want a few nerds studying how to rewrite reality MoR might be up your alley.
     
  7. vlad

    vlad Auror Prestige

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    To be fair, if I was a celebrity and also had to fight dragons/basilisks/dementors/possessed teachers every year I'd probably find homework to be a bit dull as well.

    Frankly Harry should be skating with at least an E in Transfiguration solely on that 'let's not tell anyone I blew you off when you said someone was trying to steal the immortal money stone'.

    If anything, Harry could have used more Ron influence. Ron was totally cool with blowing off 6th year Hormonie in favor of hottie roommate who wanted to snog him; Harry is buffoon who got oneitus over Cho and actually turned down multiple girls for the Yule Ball, and then spent 5th and 6th years being a giant goofball either emo or watching Ginny from afar instead of snogging Romilda or Astoria.

    Also Ron asked out Fleur which ended badly but this is something Harry should also have given the ole college try.
     
  8. DarthBill

    DarthBill The Chosen One

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    Hermione might have had that wonder, but the books certainly never showed it. Not once, in 7 books, did anyone ever seem excited to be learning literal magic. I know that people would normalize stuff eventually, especially if they were born to it, but just once, at least in Philosopher's Stone, they could have been shown to be excited.

    That's just something I hate about the way the wizarding world is depicted in the books; like it is just like the muggle world, but with magic instead of technology. There is really no reason for anyone to need a job. Every wizard should be rich. Homework is treated just like muggle homework, but it isn't. Muggle homework is about the area of a circle, or the works of Shakespeare (neither of which wizards seem to learn). Magic homework is about learning how to create kittens out of thin air and make (and learn to counter) date rape drugs. People would pay attention to that shit.

    These books just took the magic out of magic.
     
  9. Silirt

    Silirt Professor DLP Supporter

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    Let's face it, we're all here talking about fan fiction rather than studying and working hard to fight the impending doom of climate change.
    This is a trope called 'you have to believe me!' and I don't blame McGonagall, the way the conversation went in the book.
    Here we come to the part where I have absolutely no idea how this 'Ron is a pussy' meme originated.
     
  10. AgentSatan

    AgentSatan First Year

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    As I said in my first comment, if you live with something your entire life then it becomes more routine. That might be a reason that Hermione, muggle raised, is so enthusiastic about homework and learning at Hogwarts in general. For example, for people from poorer rural backgrounds in Africa that turn successful often are very impressed with the level of comfort most suburban areas have.
     
  11. Goten Askil

    Goten Askil Seventh Year

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    I don't really agree here. Hermione wasn't the only one interested in learning magic, or amazed at it, at all. As has been said, the purebloods are obviously used to it, it's just a part of their life so it's not incredible. We find making kittens appear from thin air amazing and worthy of learning, they see it as something banal some people do for work. But Muggle-raised students were quite excited, especially inthe first few books -or are you saying the Creeveys were in any way not excited? I think Justin were saying the same in book 2 when he was introduced, and even Harry said in one of the later books how sometimes magic still could amaze him. Or at least I'm pretty sure, memory's quite fuzzy this week.

    I do remember in PS, everyone in the class was super excited to learn the Levitation Charm since they had seen Flitwick use it, but then they found out it was fucking hard for anyone not named Hermione and got a bit discouraged.

    It's basically the same thing as a kid seeing Breaking Bad or CIS on TV, and then deciding "I'mma be a badass scientist!" and then going to school and struggling with making blue-colored water. Most people get discouraged and only really study what they're passionate about. It's not the rest isn't interesting in the long game, just that what you're learning right now is too hard/not connected enough with the good stuff to keep you interested.

    TL;DR: it's a gross exageration to say nobody was shown to be interested in learning magic, it's just that like nearly everything, the good stuff comes quite late and kids don't like the necessary basics. Especially when they're learning daily that what they thought of as exceptional is actually quite banal and everyone can do it without much effort.
     
  12. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Not to mention Harry and Ron were always pretty interested when it came to learning the practical side of magic and spellcasting, it was just theory and especially homework that really bored them. Cranking out homework assignments can take the joy out of just about anything, even magic.

    Considering the ages and education levels of Hogwarts students they aren't going to be rewriting the laws of reality for homework or breaking new ground. Just reading a chapter out of the textbook, then writing some sort of paper about the material to make sure they were actually paying attention and had some level of comprehension.
     
  13. DarthBill

    DarthBill The Chosen One

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    Goten Askil, you are mixing up the movies with the books. Book Harry never said the "magic is amazing" stuff he said in the movies. Also, the Creevies were excited to be meeting a celebrity. Dennis, at least, was stoked that he fell in the lake. And Colin liked that he could make his pictures move, so there's that.

    How do you know that? It never says as much in the books and I certainly never got that impression.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  14. AgentSatan

    AgentSatan First Year

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    Exactly what I was trying to say in my comment, but I just want to add that Hermione loves reading about magic not just because she's a nerd but because she thinks magic is amazing.
     
  15. eeleht

    eeleht Squib

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    I think that Hermione, who was bullied in muggle school, and feels that her only strength lies in her intellect, feels the need to overcompensate for being behind in her knowledge of the magical world. She is friendless, somewhat ostracised- partially due to her unfortunate blood status- and must be desperate to cling to the only thing she had going for her in the muggle world: her book-smarts. Hermione would have relied on only her intelligence to succeed, and would see this as the only way for her to do well in a world new to her.
     
  16. Methos

    Methos Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    As others mentioned Harry is far more busy with:
    Surviving Mcgonagall and Wood Quidditch madness.
    (How many hours per week Harry spend in quidditch training ?
    Probably ridiculous amount of homework, if you don't pass X amount of inch, it is a T.
    Surviving Snape potion classes and avoiding getting detentions.
    Have a will to study on your own, and do not associate bad feelings and memories with studying, (Hermione seems to be doing that to Harry and Ron)
    Learn how to study in a effective way that works for you, instead of some-else method.

    Hermione nagging Harry and Ron for their own good, (I don't remember how much of canon it is) seems to have negative effect in the long road.
     
  17. ThatGreekLady

    ThatGreekLady Fourth Year

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    I think some people just don't understand the message of the HP series. They're frustrated because Harry didn't study more to become more powerful and think that Ron/Dumbledore/Molly/whatever was dragging him down. However, people miss that Harry was never meant to defeat the bad guys by being powerful. He was meant to defeat the bad guys with his ability to love.

    Powerful!Harry is good for fanfiction, but it has nothing to do with canon. Being powerful was simply not what canon Harry needed. His relationship with the Weasleys helped him more than training and studying specifically because it helped him feel loved and helped develop his ability to love.
     
  18. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Yeah, Rowling seemed to go with the idea that Harry was never going to beat Voldemort in a straight fight. Voldemort is a once-in-a-generation prodigy with decades of experience over Harry, who is talented but not nearly on Voldemort's level and still in school. Harry winning in a straight fight was never going to happen within the scope of the books, there was going to have to be some sort of Deus Ex Machina. Even most fanfic gets that, since they usually turned "The Power He Knows Not" into some form of magical Super Saiyan boost to let Harry close the gap. Well, assuming they don't just go down the path of "He's dodging spells instead of letting them hit him? No wizard ever thought of this before!"

    Harry getting the power and skill to take Voldemort on in a straight fight would be the sort of story where all the Hogwarts stuff is just a prologue to his longer adult adventures as he travels the world learning and gaining allies for the final battle. Which might be a cool story, but it's a very different one.
     
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