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[WIP] Salvation in shadow by odev

Discussion in 'Dark Arts' started by LightLess, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Triple_9

    Triple_9 Squib

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    That's actually a good point you raise, and I'm someone who has always considered moral relativism too problematic for its own good. However, I think my point about the underage thing still applies since age isn't really the issue (and I know this seems like shifting the goalposts, and it is, so I apologise for not being clearer earlier). The issue of age is just a convenient yardstick by which we measure these things. It's the power structures inherent in the interaction, and the lack of agency. That's where the moral issue lies. This crops up again and again in this fic, starting with that entirely unnecessary Pansy Parkinson encounter. I don't think even the wizarding world is that backward when it comes to gender (particularly when women seem to be just as enfranchised as men in cannon, by virtue of they having access to wands and an education if anything else).

    Anyway, I guess I should make it clear that this issue I have with the fic is one of personal taste. As far as objective criticism goes, I think this story's biggest problem is the lack of plot direction and poorly fleshed out secondary characters. Taure, you commended this fic for working within the cliche's of the genre, but I for one would prefer if it rose above them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  2. KrzaQ

    KrzaQ Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Harry misled her and pretty much tricked her into doing things she'd never do. That said, it is said that he needs to fornicate to keep control of the Horcrux in his head.

    Also, while the sex might've been consensual, the obliviation was definitely not. It was no less of a mind rape than fucking a passed out girl would be rape.
     
  3. Invictus

    Invictus Heir

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    He was a huge asshole, and it is basic sexual predator behavior. But not unlike in real life, I've had classmates like that, and although I consider them major assholes, there aren't doing anything wrong except morally and ethically, and before Taure or anyone says anything, I also want to add that these are values that vary between people, and that is that. But that does prove to me that this Harry is a major psychopath. The mind rape is there, but there is also Harry's point of view on that, maybe in his twisted mind he is doing something good to her.

    I've just finished that chapter. And I'm indecise if I'm going to keep reading. While there are many annoying cliches, like Taure he passed them quite quick and didn't dwell on them. Pros there is Ice Quoeen Greengrass, that's my favorite tired cliché by far. Against is Gary Stu Handsome Harry, I despise that, but since I've yet to see his POV. And there is Dumbledore bashing, just a light one, and he isn't a idiot.

    The author is decent, structurally speaking even good sometimes. Base on what the author said about the fic, and his good writing skills and knowledge and use of the clichés, I think there is good chance that this is someone from DLP writing for the first time a big story, and at the same time, enjoying the guilty pleasures from writing a Indy!Harry fic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  4. Narf

    Narf Administrator Admin DLP Supporter

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    The first few chapters of this read like an awesome guilty pleasure fic. After that it gets into the territory of being pretty damn good.

    I'd just like to say that Harry threatening to make Pansy his concubine was kinda hilarious.
     
  5. cazten

    cazten Slug Club Member

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    I think that pretty much sums it up.

    The latest chapters are getting pretty darn good. The latest battle from chapter 23 was the first time I'd seen anything like it and was seriously innovative and cool.
     
  6. Oliver Kingston

    Oliver Kingston Fake Flamingo Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I'll get to reading this later, this post serves two purposes, first to mark this thread to stand out to me in New Posts, and second, to point out the the OP that while he may not care for the pairing, or the pairing may change, or the pairing(s) may not be romantic I would really appreciate it if he (or a charitable mod) would edit the OP with actual information there of some sort, since there is obviously interactions of some sort.

    I'll hopefully be able to read this today or in the next couple days.
     
  7. Caledfwlch

    Caledfwlch Sixth Year DLP Supporter

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    I'd call this a guilty pleasure, but with the quality of writing and at the rate its updating, I'm rating it a 4/5.
     
  8. pdo91

    pdo91 Professor DLP Supporter

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    I enjoyed it and the quality does improve as the story goes on, but I don't think I could objectively rate this any more than 3/5. A fun read, but not library worthy.
     
  9. Stormey

    Stormey Groundskeeper

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    The fic is gonna be finished in a week according to his latest A/N.

    There is no pairing in this fic at all.


    To be honest, I was a bit disappointed. I was hoping for a bit longer story. I thought he would get rid of the horcruxes and then the actual story will begin. But by the time we finally started getting past the cliches and enjoying the story, its gonna end.
     
  10. Invictus

    Invictus Heir

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    Just read up to chapter 23, and I completely agree with Taure, except one thing. The story is very good, and to me it is Library worth. The best one I've read in ages, while the constant POVs annoyes me in the beggining, it now is one of the features of this fic. A well paced ever improving fic.

    Chapter 8 was simply excellent, and made me reconsider rgis story. Chapter 19 and 23, simply awesome and gory. The way this fic is going, it's either going to be the definite Indy! fic, with it's clichéd used either very quickly or well, with a well done Dark!Harry, or the one I hope, a desconstruction of the genre. Chapter 8 was the beggining of it, and while it wasn't very deep, it certainly was there, Harry/Tom, Dumbledore suspicions and the shaggs parts. Looking forwad to it's end.

    A solid 4 if it has the desconstruction ending, or a 3,5 if it's just a decent one. Nothing above because of the first 7 chaptera, Neville and Dumbledore having such a little part.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  11. Triple_9

    Triple_9 Squib

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    Having read on till the latest chapter, I'm inclined to agree. It does get much, much better. It's a good story let down by it's beginning.
     
  12. Rache

    Rache Headmaster

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    Meh, cut the author some slack. He himself spoke at the beginning that this isnt a story to be taken seriously.

    What I like about this is Harry knows how out of depth he is against the dark forces and achieves his aims via alternate methods even though he has Voldemorts memories.
     
  13. JoJo23

    JoJo23 Auror

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    The first line refers to Daphne Greengrass being icy.

    Harry is a psychotic rapist who everybody is in love with.

    There are terrible house politics.


    Its really really bad. The only thing of mild interest is the changing POV. 1/5
     
  14. melior

    melior Seventh Year

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    Some nitpicking:

    The first hint of actually interesting plot doesn't occur until (I believe) the sixth chapter, when Harry meets Ollivander. Up until then it's just super!Harry showing us his superness. I was disappointed with how easily that issue was resolved, though...there were a lot of chapters, but much of it was spent showing more superness.

    Harry Obliviates Ginny, then laments that his sex toy is lost to him. I mean, if he's already gone that far in using her, why not just do it all over again, since she remembers nothing? Unless genius!sociopath!Harry has some bizarre version of morality where only Obliviating her once is okay, that's a pretty major logic fail. I suppose he would have plenty of other willing subjects, though.

    There isn't much I can critique about the writing, except to say that the author uses "definitively" instead of "definitely" every time. It most definitively doesn't sound better in every situation. There are a couple minor mistakes in the later chapters, but I expected much worse based on the first couple responses.

    Cliches that don't affect the plot are okay...a bit annoying when they're laid on as thick as they are in some places here, but I can look past them for the most part. That said, the concept of magical oaths breaks so many things about the Potterverse that it takes a lot of retconning and explanation to make them work. We don't get that, and to make matters worse, Harry just tosses one out completely unnecessarily.

    Anyway, plenty of good stuff here if you can stick with it.
     
  15. esran

    esran Professor

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    I'm not the kind of person who can read through a completely awful beggining of a story just because it might get better later. I also think it isnt wrong to rate a story based on it having a completely terrible beggining. 1/5, if a fic doesnt hold my interest long enough for it to get good, that means it isnt good.
    edit: to be clear i did read the story. about 4 chapter of it. then i couldnt read any more because it was too terrible.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
  16. Narf

    Narf Administrator Admin DLP Supporter

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    Bro, if you didn't read the story, you don't vote.
     
  17. bombdiggity92

    bombdiggity92 Temporarily Banhammered

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    This story if actually really good the first few chapters are just meh. But, once you get past that it's well written. Not quite library worthy but I need to wait to see how the author handles the ending. It would most definitely be library worthy if the first few chapters were polished up a little bit.
     
  18. Darth Disaster

    Darth Disaster The Waking Sith Prestige DLP Supporter

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    This is a great piece of work. I fucking love it. Near technically perfect, an enjoyable, understated style, good pacing, intriguing plot lines.

    The impatient readers who judged it before reading all of it are missing out. That, or their opinions mean little.

    I should note that this is not a story about the many wonderful characters of the HPverse. This is not a long story about a weak willed Harry finding his confidence and talent. This is not at story about Harry Potter triumphing against endless barriers and challenges being thrown into his face.

    This is a story about an awesome and yet Dark Harry combating against something less common than his own weak willpower and the drudgery of student life. An internal struggle and the looming threat of Voldemort.

    And in that genre it is a fantastic story. Worthy of the library despite some old ideas.

    4.5/5

    Also, I ROFL at people who vote it down because Harry is a nasty bastard. It's a DARK ARTS fic. What did you expect? Sugar Cookies and cream?

    Of course he's instantly respected! He's Harry Potter! If you all forget, it took canon!Harry ACTIVELY fighting against his fame and being, honestly, a disappointment of a Wizard to make the Wizarding World lose it's hero worship of him. This one has remained out of the spotlight and as soon as he returns he embraces his fame and the adoration of the public. Feeding it by...

    Using the memories and power gained from the Horcruxes

    ...to make the public feel Validated in it's Hero Worship. This complaint is baseless.

    Of course Ron is a douchebag! Ron IS a Douchebag. Verbally abusive, mentally stunted, lazy, rude, selfish, and insecure, canon!Ron is an arsehole whose only redeeming qualities are that when he isn't being an insecure git, he's has a respectable moral core and a friendly charm. That doesn't mean he isn't an idiotic douche nonetheless. His friendship with canon!Harry and canon!Hermione is probably the only thing that keeps him from being an even more massive douchebag.

    Snape IS needlessly aggressive and rude in canon. Yet another example of fanon adjusting the expectation of readers. I can easily believe canon!Snape acting exactly the way the one in this fic did if things had happened similar to they did in this fic. He shows no respect for Harry, has absolutely no qualms about mistreating him terribly in near every fashion, and absolutely refuses to believe the boy has any redeeming qualities. Snape may have sacrificed himself for unrequited!Twu Wuv but he was still an arsebag of the highest order.

    Some of the other characterization complaints are understandable, but these are the most egregious and I could not ignore them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
  19. MonkeyEpoxy

    MonkeyEpoxy Alchemist

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    Decided to actually finish it based on the praise the latter chapters got, and I do agree. It's a fun read, and I don't regret reading it. I'll bump it up to 3.5 -> 4.0
     
  20. Rache

    Rache Headmaster

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    Well, Voldemort gets the treatment he deserves. Bumping my rating to 4 for the depiction of the fight scene.

    The transition from the previous chapter however is poor however.