Hi all, I'm hoping that someone here could help me with something/give me some advice.

I've started to flesh out/plan out a non slash, veela!Harry arc that begins at the start of the Order of the Phoenix time-frame. I was inspired by 'Secrets of the Male Veela' and other such titles, and since it's never going to be finished nor is it going to be up for adoption, I thought I would start on something in the same sort of vein. It'll be blended with the original OotP storyline, timeline/divergences aside. As for the pairing, I'm thinking either Fleur, Tonks or Daphne. Or another, off of the wall choice.

My question is this: would it be too early within the storyline (it's the first chapter, after a prologue) to write in such an intense 'action/war' scene?

Would it draw in readers or alienate them?

Here's the current rough outline/timeline of the scene in question:

At the start of the storyline, Dudley and Harry are attacked in Little Whinging by a group of veela. They were planning on abducting him and 'eliminating' any witnesses, Dudley in this case, as soon as a good opening presented itself. However, as per canon and on Umbridges' orders, the Dementors attack. The veela are forced into action earlier than before they were properly prepared for the 'grab'. As the veela attempt to push back the pair of Dementors, Harry -not knowing their true motives at that moment in time and seeking to help them/not knowing what is going on aside from the fact that there are Dementors right there infront of him- casts the Patronus charm.

This combined assault drives the Dementors back.

In the meantime, a second group of veela belonging to another faction that had been 'stalking the stalkers', also try to take this opening in order to abduct Harry, and pin all of the blame on the original group. The second team's motives are also less than honorable, like the first teams'.

After realizing that both combating groups are there to abduct him, Harry takes cover and starts sending stunners at both of the veela commando groups, thinking that they were working with Voldemort. He's trying to stay free as well as protecting a near catatonic Dudley (due to the Dementors).

This quickly becomes a three way and rather vicious fight between Harry and the two veela commando teams.

Arabella Figg, in the meantime, rushes home to alert Dumbledore and the Order.

Muggle police also arrive due to the disturbances caused by the fighting/'weird lights', but a stray fireball smashes into their patrol car, causing it to explode just as they themselves manage to get clear.

The Ministry -curious to know exactly why so many underage magic spells that were focused on defence are being cast- send Aurors into investigate, just as Dumbledore and the Order arrive.

This essentially degenerates into a four way conflict: two veela groups wanting to abduct Harry and get him out of the clutches of the other, Dumbledore and the Order of the Phoenix in order to protect him and obliviate the Ministry Aurors/muggle police (due to some members having their covers blown, aka, Tonks, Kingsley, Moody, Snape, etc), and the Aurors themselves, who are attempting to call in back-up for what they believe to be a wizarding black-market deal gone wrong.

At the end of it, the veela are forced back, but before departing, one of the veela from the first group stabs Harry with a ritualistic blade before escaping. Apparently poisoned, Harry collapses and the last thing he sees is Tonks' face (who he doesn't know at that point) looking down on him, panicked.

So, too soon/early? I could really use your opinions on this.

 

The timing of the action scene is fine. Kicking a story off with an action sequence is a tried and true way to set things in motion--think every James Bond film extant or Saving Private Ryan.

That said, what you describe sounds like a confusing and potentially very difficult scene to write well. You'll want to choose POV carefully--third person objective (or omniscient) or maybe third limited, but shifting from one character to another in the melee, may be your best bet. Staying confined to Harry's head, whatever the POV, may not provide the flexibility you need.

 

This better have a damn good reason, because I seriously see no reason why two magical creatures/people (the distinction was never made in canon, I believe) would abduct a scrawny sixteen year-old boy from his protected home, where he has lived in anonymity for the past fifteen years.

Secret of the Male Veela was a good fic, as far as I read in it. Perhaps I only remembered convenient things, but I don't see much of a difference between this idea and that fics' beginning plot (not sure that was based 5th year, for example).

This reminds of distinctly of what Harry did not do in Goblet of Fire, where the Death Eaters were attacking innocents. Not to mention, since Harry was affected by the Veela charm back at the World Cup, you'd have to come up with some reason why he wouldn't be now, just a year later, when the Veela are much closer to him. He'd be

Since I'm here to force my opinion down your throat, I say that choosing a pairing isn't the right thing to do. Imagine Harry; fifteen, basicallyjust going through the steps of puberty, when suddenly everyone is finding him attractive and are basically flirting with him. Harry, being a boy already flustered by being talked about in stories everywhere, would probably get angry and not want to be in a relationship (while it is cliche, think of the "Tonks is single because nobody cares about her true form" thing), or something like that.

Also, I see no reason why Dumbledore would send an Order member or something, unless it was Moody (who would surely blow the shit out of everything). Dumbledore would probably come himself, if he hears that fireballs are raining down in Privet Drive over Harry.

 

I usually write in an objective third person view: I've never tried writing in a first person point of view before, to be honest. Do you know of any good examples?

There is a very good -and rather dark- reason as to why they want to abduct Harry. Going in to it would reveal the central plot quite a bit, but let's just say that the reason why they had chosen him, their view on his purpose in life, isn't going to bode well for both him nor anyone else that he knows.

Secrets of the Male Veela was based at the end of the Goblet of Fire, his fourth year.

In that fic', Harry -in a background divergence of canon- is already a male veela, or had the lineage of one.

I'm going to try and go in another direction that SotMV and the other non-slash male!veela fic's went in, and unlike the other fiction pieces by other authors it's going to run parallel to that of the original, canon setting: Horcruxes and all, even if the implementation of how the final few books occured is different in this storyline arc.

I'm also looking at the plot-holes that the original book had, so that I can try and fix them as they come up as 'bumps in the road'. I'm also trying to avoid going into heavy cliche territory like other fic's, and I'm hoping that I succeed in that goal at least.

I think the end of your comment got cut off, there?

You're right. I'll need to rebuy the fourth and fifth books and reread/make notes on them. Thanks for pointing that out!

As for the veela charm not affecting him, I'm still fleshing it out (as I only started on the premise a day or so ago) but I've got two (as far as I can see, right now) plot devices that I can use for this. Just not sure if that by using one, it will overcomplicate the storyline and if I use the other, it'll just be a bit too cliche, which I am trying to avoid in general.

You're right for an immediate pairing, but if the romance angle started a fair bit into the storyline, it could be pulled off realistically: Harry did pine after/fancy Cho the year after Cedric died, didn't he? Then again, the whole male!veela thing would completely fuck up any traditional romance plot points with him not knowing whether any affection given to him is either genuine or artificial...

If Arabella told Dumbledore that there were two hostile parties fighting over and for Harry right at this very moment somewhere close to Privet Drive, I very much doubt that he would go it alone. Powerful wizard on Voldemort's level or not, I don't think that he'd be cocky enough to waltz into a literal war-zone solo. Especially if he suspected/had the impression that it had something to do with Voldemort.

There's also the fact that Order also has allot of highly trained members within its ranks, e.g., Tonks, Remus, Moody. As shown by the canonical fight at the end of the Order of the Phoenix book, pratical wise they're quite effective in what they do.

Thanks for the honest feedback/help: you've already helped me allot, here.

 

I'm liking this idea - especially if you go the no pairing route. I'll go ahead and volunteer my services as a sounding board if you have need of one.

 

The idea is sound, though the execution will be difficult. An action scene is a great way to pull in readers from the get-go, as opposed to slowly building tension and intrigue. Be careful with Harry's mindset though, as he didn't really get into a 'war mentality' until after OotP and most of the way into HBP.

 

I was originaly going to write a really long thing about why I think this is too much, but I'll keep it short and to the point. Let me know if you want me to expand the explanation.


This scene is just too big and hard to follow to be a first chapter. You're introducing completely new characters, have 5 sides of a battle, are writing in a 3rd person POV, nobody knows what the fuck is going on, and the reader will probably feel it's just too contrived to follow.

This would work better if you were to replace the two veela armies with just one or two veelas. Dementors come, their aura interfere wth the veelas', Harry drives them all off. Then come the consequences. Ministry is pissed, veela are pissed, Order is pissed, and Harry pissed his pants.

So you can go from there. Essentially, having only two veelas sets the precedent of an attack on Harry so that the reader can find the en masse attack more believable, gives you an excuse to have Harry start learning how to concentrate despite the veelas' aura, introduces the veela as an important part of the fic, allows you to introduce all the characters you want without info-dumping them on the reader (as it would've happened if you were to write a full-scale battle in ch1).

Plus it has the advantage of being much easier to write. I don't know about your skillz, but that scene is definitely a challenge (seriously, five sides?). Plus you're writing in 3rd person, so you can choose whatever character you like for the scene. It sounds like a good thing at first glance, but remember that the more options you have the chances of you screwing up increase as well (the beauty of 1st person: no POV choice).

Those are my thoughts. Take what you want, but I seriously doubt anyone could pull this off in a brilliant enough way for a first chapter so that the reader is hooked.

Good luck.

 

Cool idea. I like the idea of Veela actually being war-like and dangerous, instead of sex toys.

Anyways,
I'm gonna agree with Swimdraconian that no pairings or low-key pairings is the way to go. While I wouldn't mind an interesting pairing(Tonks, Fleur, Daphne) keeping it realistic should be a higher priority. Keep the focus on the plot and characters, not on pairing Harry up.
Obviously, I'm a very inexperienced fanfic author(zero stories), so don't listen to carefully to me. Just a disclaimer :awesome

 

LAWL. Shit like this makes me wish we still had rep++ points around.

I'd have to disagree with the overall statement however. Yes, it would a complicated scene to craft, but it can be done. With the aid of a good beta and the guidance of DLP's WBA vets, this could turn out to be a seriously epic battle scene. It'd take a lot of dedication to detail and characterization, sure.

Sounds like one hell of a challenge to rise to.

 

Thanks. When I get the general outline properly fleshed out in detail, I'd like to take you up on that offer. (Long way to go yet: need to find the original storyline plotholes, re-purchase the fourth and fifth books for note making, make a list of overused cliches to avoid, etc...).

I've also been researching the veela's real life counterparts in detail (Vila): there's alot I can use/adapt when it comes to designing veela culture, since because of the lack of canon information, I'd be doing it from the ground-up.

Aside from a few scattered plot-bunnies that I have in my head, this is my second, major project. It's running concurrent with another one that is also in the planning stages: due to current health issues, I've got an amazingly large amount of free time on my hands, leaving me able to write for basically hours on end. Well, that and play Starcraft 2/Left 4 Dead 2!

Thanks for the reminder: allot of Harry's planned actions so far were more along the 'war esque' actions of his later self. Again, I need to re-read the books.

There's also a prologue in the planning, that will give the reader a hint to what the storyline is actually going to be about as well as introducing the characters of one of the two veela strike groups.

As mentioned before, there'll be a prologue introducing some of the new characters, as well as setting up a framework for the reader to understand what's going on when the 'shit hits the fan'. You are right, though: the second chapter would be a good opportunity to introduce the remaining characters from the battle in a post debriefing kind of setting. This should prevent 'info-dumping' the reader, right?

Since people have read the books, they'll understand why Dumbledore and the Order intervened, and because of simple logic it's obvious as to why the DMLE would be involved: if they track the use of underage witches/wizards wands enough to lock down a specific spell, wouldn't they be curious if a sudden and rather long roster of defensive and offensive spells quickly lit up their detectors like an Xmas tree? Same thing with the muggle police: disturbance in the neighbourhood, investigate, etc.

How many are in a surgical strike team, do you think? I was thinking about maybe five veela for each team, based on real world special operation team numbers?

Oh, and I've got something twisted planned for Umbitch!

If you were going for a hostile target extraction, would you send in one or two members of your team for a first attempt (leaving a good chance that it would fail, leaving your target to become even more protected or inaccessible), or strike hard and fast with your whole team when it was time in order to maximise success chances?

At the moment, I see two choices with Harry and the veela allure: one is terribly cliche and very hard to hammer in to make sense (him having a strong sense of will, see Imperious curse, that prevents him from ultimately succuming), or one where he's got another party interested in him that do something to help him resist the allure. Unfortunately, the latter would most probably overcomplicate the storyline a tad too much, like too much icing on a cake. So, I'm a little stuck on this detail.

Any thoughts?

I can try and either succeed or fail, but I'll never find out unless I try. I'm hoping to be a published author one day, so I've also got reasons for developing this that go beyond simple fan-fiction writing (e.g., technique practice for the real thing: original work).

Thanks, I get the feeling that I am going to need it!

Yeah, the real life legends of the vila actually portray them as real mean bitches. They shoot people (read: men) with their bows/arrows simply for the heck of it, for crying out loud!

That's one thing I am slightly worried about: losing the vision on the plot as the story goes along. Fortunately, even if that does happen, at least I cannot get as bad as P'Lionhearts' main story at the moment, the one with the millions of unrequired subplots, fae and banana-cream tipped nuclear missiles?

Hopefully, if that does happen and I do not realize it, I can get my focus bitch-slapped back on track by my sound-boarder/beta.

There will definitely be romance, but there will not be an immediate pairing: aside from being unrealistic and cliche ("Oh, Harry, I've loved you ever since the first day that I laid my eyes upon you, let's shag and make babies!" muttered anonymous, previously bitch-witch 'a' in chapter one), there will also be affection issues, as mentioned before. I think one of the things I'm worried about is writing the romance angle properly, because I don't want that specific component to bring the rest down/make the storyline sucky. (See Gin-Slut).

 

Obviously what I pointed out is not the be-all end-all of fan fiction. If you wish to write this as your first chapter, then please, by all means go ahead. It's certainly possible to get this right. I've found nothing is impossible when it comes to writing. All I'm saying is that you better be prepared for frustration, impatience, a lot of rewrites and a healthy dose of scotch.

I think when it comes to the start of a story, simplicity is always best. You want to get through to the reader as quickly and as clearly as possible, so that he/she can decide if your story will or will not be a waste of his/her time. You want to lay down the foundations of what you'll be doing, and you want to do it quick. Losing readers because you're too smart is somewhat redundant.

I can definitely see the appeal in this really cool scene. No idea why veelas would kidnap Harry, but everything sounds good. Now if as you say, you want to be a professional writer one day, fan fics are good exercise, and this scene will definitely challenge you.

I'm currently working on my own story and bouncing off ideas for CareOtters, who is writing an epic Necromancer!Harry fic. But if you need someone to help along with ideas and execution, I offer you my help. I might not always be available though.

The first idea is the way to go, in my opinion. In book 4 Harry is already a hormonal teenager and he resists Fleur's allure much better than Ron and many other males do. Him having a stronger will than most is canon and a somewhat basic personality trait of Harry. You could argue that's just stubborness, but the end result is the same: if Harry says no, then it'll be no.

Building on that trait seems like a good way to go. Not terribly hard to describe a strong will either. Plus, like I mentioned before, having the Dementors strike right in the middle of that confrontation could help lessen that veela allure. Harry has some pretty shitty moments and we know Dementors affect him quite strongly. It's not a stretch to think that his parents dieing, Ginny being close too, shitty times with the Dursleys, the chamber of secrets, Voldemort, a mountain troll, a swarm of Dementors, his godfather being on the run -- it's easy to see why bad, depressing memories would outweight the sudden needs of his penis.

Let us know when you get the first draft of this baby ready. Or post that Prologue so that we can see how this starts to play out.


- Nick

 

I prefer whiskey (Jack Daniels specifically, unfortunately, I'm out at the moment), but on the plus side I do have a healthy bottle of vodka on hand.

Hopefully, the opening prologue will be interesting enough for the readers. There's going to be quite a few twists in this story, methinks.

They have their rather twisted reasons for doing so: to them, the veela clans, Voldemort is an
inconvenience but one that they're willing to use in order to smoke-screen/further their own goals. I'm not aiming to supplant the canon storyline (even if the final two books did suck ass), but to supplement them with another interweaving storyline. Hopefully, I can do this concept justice.

Thanks, I'll take you up on that when I get this under full steam. I also extend the same offer to you with your own storyline, if you want my help.

Necromancer!Harry, eh? I've only read one of those stories, and it involved him summoning the skeletal remains of a T-Rex from deep underground in order to attack Voldemort's army, whilst they themselves were going for Hogwarts.

Oh, I forgot about the dementors and their possible effects when mixed with the veela allure! That should be interesting to write...

The only thing really holding me back at the moment is not having copies of both the Order of the Phoenix/Goblet of Fire on hand, but I'll be acquiring the required copies to rip apart with hi-lighters/note making soon enough.

That won't stop me from writing the first draft of the prologue chapter though, and I have the whole of next week to work on it.

On a side note, a few weeks ago, I spent six quid on buying a new copy of the Half-Blood Prince from an online retailer for my other project, and a week later I found a copy -in roughly the same condition- for just twenty pence at a boot-sale. I felt right sick!