Okay, this spawns from an odd thought I had in the Grindelwald topic in General Discussion. Assume Grindelwald had emerged victorious over Dumbledore in 1945 and then assumed his place. The world thinks that the Dark Lord is dead and the world is laid before the victor's feet. But Grindelwald has a smarter idea than assuming direct power and eventually losing it in the democratic system. He instead becomes Hogwarts Headmaster, where he can put on the grandfatherly mentor act and this win the loyalty of the students passing through. And when enough time had passed and virtually all magical Britain's populace had been under his 'care' and were loyal to him, that would be the time to strike and assume control.

But fate intervenes with the rise of Lord Voldemort. During the first war he and Grindelwald/Dumbledore are enemies, each vying for their version of control. That is, until the Prophecy. The emergence of a hero to destroy Voldemort frightens Grindelwald as well, as such a character would win all the acclaim that he had himself striven to obtain and destroy his plans. And so he and Tom secretly make a deal to destroy the child and then resume their conflict or share the world, whichever works. Grindelwald manipulates Pettigrew to sell out the Potters in 1981, in an attempt to borrow Tom's hand to destroy their enemy.

That fails as we know, and Grindelwald is left to deal with the boy alone, but knows that he cannot kill him outright. So he leaves him an an abusive Muggle home, so that he will grow up powerless and ignorant. And then at Hogwarts he does whatever possible to put Harry in danger or hamper his development. And then Tom rises again, and that is the source of the gleam of triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. Albus makes a show of fighting against Voldemort through the Order, but does not truly want to see him destroyed. He doesn't train Harry at all and leaves him completely on his own during fifth year, and hopes that he will die in the Department of Mysteries.

And then we have the start of the story after OotP. The real Dumbledore (a spriit) is able to get through Grindelwald's warding to keep him away and warns Harry about the truth, and that all his friends and allies are unwitting pawns of the Dark Lord Grindelwald. Harry then strikes out on his own, with only the true Albus as his guide and mentor, determined to defeat both foes and save the wizarding world. Tell me what you guys think, and if nobody else tries this then perhaps I will do it on my own.

 

Good idea, but I know fics have used Dumbledore is secretly Grindelwald before. You'll probably want to steer clear of doing too many similar things as those that have been done before.

Wish I remembered the name of the one I'm thinking of. Someone else probably knows it.

 

Whoa... that's really good. Really good indeed. I would like to see this done, but sadly I lack the talent for this...

 

This doesn't work. Voldemort already had AK launched at Harry and Dumbledore saved him by animating a statue to take it for him (the very beggining of the duel).

You can either:
1) make this post GOF, maybe even AU of Harry's 5th year. Maybe he learns the truth by Occlumency, either from Tom or Snape.
2) maybe Dumbledore/Grim knows that Harry is the only one able to Kill Voldemort and he's trying to manipulate him into doing it, while not letting him develop and becoma a threat.

Wouldn't it be cool if Dumbledore was actually Alberforth, his mysterious brother? Grimdewald has had his magic bonded and he's keeping him confined inside that pub, with various curses and wards placed on him so he couldn't tell anyone anything (which is why he seems crazy and mentally impaired and looks exactly like "Dumbledore", only without beard).

Grimdewald left him alive for two reasons:
- He's a constant source of information about Dumbledore's life - so Grim would know stuff like secret accounts, names of Albus's friends, their secrets etc...
- Source of material for Polyjuice potion or whatever he's using to look like Dumbledore.

EDIT: Maybe lemon drops are actually laced with some kind of polyjuice that make Grimdewald keep looking like Dumbledore.

 

Okay, you're right about the DoM thing. I forgot that Albus stopped the Killing Curse. My mistake, and a rather stupid one. But it would work as a Post-GoF challenge still. The Aberforth idea is interesting, at least if Harry can somehow release him. Harry needs somebody to guide him in what seems to be an impossible situation, not to mention teaching him the magic he'll need to win, so a key part of the challenge is to have the real Albus as that mentor figure. I don't think Harry has the skill to take anything from Tom, and neither Grindelwald nor Voldemort would have let Snape be privy to the truth about Dumbledore's identity for security reasons.

As for Harry, he would rather let Voldemort kill him and hope that Riddle dies during the battle as well. Either way, Grindelwald would be right there to secretly finish off the winner of that final duel and have it all at his feet with nobody to challenge him.

 

Maybe it could start during the OOTP Hogsmeade trip, when kids they are gathered inside the Hog's Head, discussing DA.

Something like... Malfoy following them there, getting into fight and Alberforth (the bartender) getting hit by some curse, that loosens his restrictions long enough for him to scribble a small message and hand it over to Harry. The message is just some latin term. Harry looks into it in the Hogwarts library and learns it's the bonds dispelling potion. He makes the potion and releases Dumbledore from Grimdewald's mind inhibators...

 

Yeah but you can't forget about the other two parts of the Golden Trio, I think that HR would be really good for someparts of the story in helping Harry and of course Ron could always play the prat that he is. Maybe haveing something like it's Grindy controlling Ron as well I know it's an over use plot idea, But I think it could work well if written decently.

 

He's not directly controlling anybody. Everybody is just ignorant, and would think Harry insane (more so than some already do) should he come out and say that Albus Dumbledore is a Dark Lord. And that includes Hermione, who virtually idolizes the man for his 'enlightened' views regarding Muggles and Muggleborns. The point is that Harry is more or less on his own in this. Some people might join him, but not Hermione or Ron. That should be made an official part of the challenge too.

 

Now don't quote me on this because I could be wrong but I believe that the only Dumbles/grim story that I have read is "Earth's Emmisary"(?) on FF.net

 

This is a sweet, sweet idea, Sera. The idea of everyone remaining ignorant to Grindelward's master plan is beautiful. A lot of people can't seem to make up their mind about Dumbledore and ends up writing him as a jumbled mix of DL wannabe or senile light wizard which makes no sense. The only trick is that the author needs to have a 'palpatine' complex, an ability to craft stories in a scheming way.

There's also a question of how to develop Harry appropriately. The odds are like astronomically ranked against him now. Even super-powers won't save him given his disadvanatge in the political and media battlefields. He would have to somehow turn Grindelward and LV against each other, like having one provoke an attack on the other or whatever.

 

Well sorry for the bump, but I was wondering if this has been written, it sounded like it would have been a good story

 

Good. Too bad you really hate hermione, though. Btw, she doesn't ideolize dumbledore at all, in fact in the trio she is the one most wary of him: she shows in ps that she doesn't like what He is doing by telling harry that dumbledore is manipulating him, then clap up when harry retorts. But we can see in the years that while hse is all for going to the authority when we needs help, she doesn't quite trust anyone but herself and sometimes harry.

Of course, i'll clam up now. This is your challenge, and i won't let my like of a character destroy such a wonderful idea for you.

 

Argh, a bump.

Well, the problem is...Dumbledore lost...he's weaker then Grindelwald.

How is he going to help Harry defeat a better wizard when he himself hasn't practiced magic in half a century?

 

The idea is cool, but you'd also have to find a way to explain Fawkes.

Maybe Grindelwald's magic is so strong that he managed to foool Fawkes/bind Fawkes's loyalty to him?