Has there ever been a story featuring a smart evil Snape? By that, I mean that Snape actually manages to imitate a good guy, and hide his loyalty to Voldemort. It seems like in every evil Snape story, Dumbledore is the only one who can't see that Severus is lying to him. It would be interesting to read one that doesn't require Albus to be completely gullible to actually believe Snape is working for him.

 

Being loyal to canonical Voldemort isn't smart.

 

Being disloyal to him is even less smart, given what happened to Karkaroff. Betraying Dumbledore is much safer.

 

There's bound to be a fic where Snape was completely loyal to Dumbledore... up until the point where he sees Dumbledore's arm and is told the whole Malfoy plan.

That's a point where I could see him changing and going "Fuck this shit, no hoe is worth this."

 

I don't know that that's so. Sure Karkaroff was killed, but he avoided 15 years in the hell known as Azkaban and led a pretty cushy lifestyle instead. Plus being killed for being disloyal meant he avoided the years of torture for fuckups canon Voldemort liked to dish out. Also, Voldemort believing you loyal in no way precluded him killing you (see Snape's death). Betraying Voldemort is clearly absolutely the smart thing to do.

 

Actually, staying out of the conflict altogether is the smartest thing to do, as Harry's victory is by no means assured by the prophecy; it's only a possibility.

 

And what a boring fic that would be.

 

Well, yes. I suppose you could have him wise-up after he joins ranks (either side).

 

Snape in Flamata's 'Traitorous' is fairly smart and evil. He's completely loyal to Voldemort, fucks with the Order constantly, and obliviates himself when he gets found out. Hardcore.

 

I completely agree with this. Snape was 100% loyal to the cause and Voldemort. It's too bad that story looks like it's been abandoned already. Oh well.

 

I read that story. It was good but not quite what I was looking for. As I recall, just before Albus died, he was reminded that he had ignored numerous warnings about Snape's loyalty.

I'm interested in finding a story, where Snape manages to deceive pretty much the entire light side into thinking he is trustworthy. It would be fun to see him screw over the good guys by being a skilled enough actor to fool everybody rather than merely able to fool a senile man who always wants to see the best in people. I've read stories where Snape get arrested committing murders and Albus still believes he can trust him.

 

The whole Snape angle in canon is actually incredibly stupid. Most light-side characters don't have a legitimate reason to believe that Snape is on Voldemort's side, especially in OOTP. The fact that they all "grudgingly accept" Albus' word for his loyalty is ridiculous - if you have serious doubts, make him take Verasiterum in private and ask him about his loyalty. Not the reason for it, as that is what he wants to keep private. Since they don't raise the issue, any doubts they have must be superfluous.

 

Just saying, Veritaserum isn't infallible. Occlumency can be used to resist it. Snape knows occlumency, so he could probably resist it.

 

Does canon make any mention of Veritaserum's fallibility? Seems like the occlumency beats Veritaserum thing may be a fanon invention, but it's been a while since I've read the books.

 

Sayeth the HP Wiki:

Forcing Veritaserum on Snape doesn't sound like the typical modus operandi of the Order.

 

Let's just see for a minute who's on the light side.

Harry and his friends. Of course Snape is going to act nice towards them to convince them of being on the light side.

Remus and Sirius. Of course Snape is going to bury his decade long hatred for those two, as are Remus and Sirius, so that both of them are going to be 100% sure that Snape is 'good'.

People like Tonks, who have also been taught by Snape in Hogwarts. During that time, they have witnessed him constantly favoring the 'evil' Slytherins, taking points off the other houses for no reasons. Plus his obvious fascination with Dark Arts, it's an open secret that every year, when Dumbledore searches for a new DADA professor, Snape wants that position.

The problem with what you're searching for is that it would require a total rewrite of Snape's character. He isn't evil and smart. He is petty and childish. He can't let go of grudges. Therefore, he is never going to convince anybody besides Dumbledore (and in the end, Harry) of him being 'good'.

 

This is canon in the same sense that Dumbledore's gayness, the Black Family Tree, etc. are canon. Its drawn from interviews and pronouncements by JKR and other outside sources. There's nothing in the actual books to suggest this. All we know from the books is that Veritaserum is the most powerful truth potion alive and that it's restricted in use. It's restrictions and lack thereof can be twisted in almost any conceivable direction in a fic without really violating canon.

 

Didn't Dumbledore not use Veritaserum on Slughorn in HBP because he knew Slughorn could resist it?

 

Nope, just reread that part.

The way Dumbledore mentions both Occlumency and the antidote lets me doubt on the validity of HP wiki's Veritaserum article. Anybody have any proof (JKR interview, part of one of the books) that Veritaserum can be resisted through Occlumency?

 

Ugh, as much as I dislike disregarding canon, and other pronouncements by the author, this just irks me. If Veritaserum is the most powerful truth serum there is, and it's such weak sauce, then it becomes moot. I say ignore that shit and just say 3 drops of this shit and you tell the truth. Sorry, end of story.

I will accept the defense that it can only make you tell truth that you know. But personally, I would rather that it cuts through your insanity and self delusion like a hot knife through butter. If you know it, you speak it. If your mind simply made that shit up, then you don't. If you don't know it, then you can honestly say, under its influence "I don't know."

I guess what I'm saying is, make that stuff shit-your-pants scary to be in the same room with, make there be a reason to restrict its use by the ministry. People should be afraid of accidentally breathing in its fumes and spilling their dirty little secrets. Otherwise, you're a piss poor wizarding equivalent of someone who left their engine running and their doors unlocked and wonder why their car got jacked if you fall victim to its use.

I'd go even further in saying that you shouldn't be able to fight the Imperius curse, other wise it becomes such weak-sauce that there's no reason for it to be "unforgiveable." Like our victim of grand theft auto above, if you didn't make damn well sure you could fight it off the moment you found out about its existence, then you practically deserve to be placed under it. You know what's unforgiveable? NOT learning to fight that shit off if there's even a remote possibility of doing so.

It amazes me that the very existence of that curse doesn't have even the laziest of lazy wizards clamoring to learn from as early an age as possible how to block it - especially witches.