I don't think whatever bounced of baby Harry can still be truely called a Killing Curse. It was a failed or distorted Killing Curse at the very best. If the spell had just been a rebound, like Voldemort's final curse in DH or the way Harry and Draco's curses bounced off each other in GoF, nothing would have happened. The killing effect of the curse would simply have been negated by his Horcruxes.

Something happened to the curse when it hit Harry. Whether it was somehow amplified, distorted or changed into pure, defensive power, I don't know. But the spell that hit Voldemort disintegrated his body, tore his soul apart and blew up part of the house. None of those effects have anything to do with a normal Killing Curse.

I completely agree with your reasons for Harry's survival. Of all those things, the blood connection was probably the most important. They even had that connection between their wands, which was probably still there in that moment, even though their were no visible effects, seeing as Harry didn't have his wand.

It's probable that Dumbledore believed Harry would have a greater chance of 'surviving' if he was killed by Voldemort and didn't fight back. However, I'd like to add, that Dumbledore might also have used this as a fail-safe. After all, he didn't know if Harry would live and even if he did, he'd normally only have his wand as sole advantage over Voldemort, which might not have been enough. But in this way, Harry would actively choose to let himself get killed by Voldemort, even though he could theoretically walk away, to save everybody else. And this might be enough to create a Love Protection for everyone else, rendering Voldemort atleast party powerless. I'm just not sure if this would have worked though, if Voldemort hadn't given him the ultimatum, which was something Dumbledore couldn't have logically expected.

..there's more than one Oedipus Flower? Please say yes.

 

That is a leap of logic that I wouldn't have made. I never thought the killing curse itself was the cause of a piece of Voldemort's soul to detach. I know it resulted from that event, but I thought it was describing the event for a reference of when it happened not how it happened.

That is to say Voldemort was intending to make a horcrux, and his soul was already in tatters. I thought it was the weak nature of his soul combined with the cold blooded murder of Lily Evans and his intent that activated the horcrux creation process.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that magic in JKR's world is intent based, and I think that with his soul already being so damaged that even the smallest level of intent to make a horcrux (even if in the short future) would be enough to cause the magic to react.

If this were the case, Lily's corpse could have ended up being home to a pseudo-Horcrux which while it wouldn't have kept her alive or even been able to use her body would have made for an interesting 7th year for Harry...

Oh, and by the way, you need to dig up and desecrate your mother's corpse which has most likely been kept pretty fresh by the pseudo-Horcrux. Sorry, I didn't get around to it before I died, and I don't trust Snape around a mostly fresh Lily corpse.~Sincerely Albus Dumbledore

EDIT:
I would have never thought about it like that because I assumed that since the killing curse was unable to kill Voldemort, it destroyed his body much like it destroys/damages objects that intercept it on the way to it's target.

Now, that I've thought about it more, I find it to be much more likely that it was the trauma of having his soul forced from his body that caused the already unstable soul to split.

 

Harry should have just used his blood and the ultimate sacrificial protection in it + intent to banish LV´s soul on his scar to get unanchored almost-Horcrux away.

I can´t think of anything in canon that says it should not work.

1. Harry is living human, so if Harry´s touch did not burn and destroy Locket or Diary or etc. because they were inanimate nonliving objects (or they were protected by Voldemort´s spells), it should be irrelevant.

2. Almost-Horcrux is powerless (deformed baby) and sacrificial protection prevents it from latching on and corrupting Harry´s pure soul (yes there is Parseltongue but Word of God says that it goes away after DH so it is not something permanent that defeated protection) so this means it should be easily defeated.

3. Almost-Horcrux was created after onset of protection on October 31, 1981 so if reason why Harry did not burn and destroy Diary or Locket is because they contained parts of soul of Tom Riddle who did not mean harm to Harry Potter and not Lord Voldemort who came to kill HP, then this problem is also irrelevant.

Well, there is problem if protection works only against "main soul" of Voldemort. But then, this protection seems from strategic viewpoint almost useless (well, it helped against Quirrellmort) and we go to realm of ManipulativeEvil! Dumbledore and his "reasons" why Harry should be isolated on Privet Drive. It would also totally defeat DD´s concept of love as "most powerful magic" and "power of sacrifice trumps anything". Also, if intent is important, did Lily Potter intend to somehow limit her protection ? I do not think so.

Note: Harry shouldn´t have tried to wrestle Nagini in DH, he should have done like Jowan in DA:O (that bloodspray would have annihilated Nagini)

 

It's like the Sword of Omens that way.

Yeah, you broke it. No, you can't just tape it back together or get Panthro to fix it; you're going to have to go climb into an active volcano and reforge the thing.

Thundercats Ho!

I mentioned that somewhere around here waaay back in the day and was almost immediately shot down thusly: Moody kills a spider with it.
Bellatrix kills a fox with it.
If AK works by removing the soul, that would imply animals have souls.

Well, I thought it was clever for a moment...

You and me, both.

It's been done, but I couldn't quote a story right off the bat.

 

They do have souls, you speciest!

Yeah, but I see how that wouldn't work. Now, Dementor on the other hand could work, they eat souls after all. But would Voldemort still be unkillable if a part of his soul is in the digestive system of a Dementor on the mortal plane? Deep thoughts.

 

I wrote this just for you.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7199124/1/

 

Do you mean to say that Voldemort couldn't die via AK while he had his Horcruxes? I always took them to work in that while he could be killed, they wouldn't let him stay dead.

 

That's what I think, yeah. I believe Voldemort's specter-state was a unique situation, which is why Dumbledore never realized how Voldemort stayed alive. Maybe he even had some Horcrux-like healing. Stab him with a sword and he just heals or something.

Dumbledore must have had a reason to believe Voldemort survived that night. Who knows, maybe he actually managed a killing blow on him and saw Voldemort walk away. Voldemort feared him for a reason.

In the end it's all conjecture though. I just don't think someone like Voldemort would choose an immortality, that could theoretically leave him as a mere specter for the rest of his eternal life. And there must have been several possibilities if Dumbledore didn't know what he used.

 

At the end of DH, did not Dumbledore said that he suspected that LV used Horcruxes from beginning (October 31, 1981) and he was sure of it after CoS ? And that is why he crafted his super duper plan to sacrifice Harry. Because if Dumbledore did not suspect Horcruxes and he was just twiddling his thumbs for 11 years instead of searching why was LV still existing - that is pretty dumb.

I did not think that DD was even capable of killing Voldemort. Remember their duel in Ministry. He fought only to capture, even with Elder Wand. And only Dumbledore´s supporters who needed any ray of hope in time of hunting against Order members and absolute decay of Ministry (1978-81) believed that LV is afraid of DD. Voldemort certainly respected his abilities but he did not fear Dumbledore.

 

What if the real reason no one ever used the horcrux to become immortal is because dementors are drawn to them like moths to a flame?

“Harry, what is that thing,” Hermione asked while gesturing at the rather menacing cloaked figure that had joined them in the boat and was slowly easing its way closer to Harry’s face.

Harry deftly whacked the creature on the head with his cane. “Don’t mind him,” he muttered. “The bloody thing has been following me around for years. I thought I was going mad until Hagrid came along and could see him too. He took one look at him and said I was the right sort...even invited me over to see some of his pets.”

 

Dumbledore punked him when he was little, keep his eye on him when he was in school, combated both of his rises to power, and call him by Tom (a name he despised because it bought back memories of his muggle background) whenever they met. Voldemort had the fear of Albus in him

 

I can't see the Horcruxes giving Voldemort any sort of healing ability. Just doesn't seem logical...injure your soul terribly and get a boost to your body?

That does sound pretty damn cool, although I'm more inclined to agree with Torak. Oneshot idea anyone?

Hard as it seems to find knowledge on Horcruxes, there's a slight chance that Voldemort wasn't aware that 'dying' would leave him as a spectre. It could even be that 'dying' via AK was what resulted in his wraith status, and that other methods of killing him would have other results...could even be that he never actually believed it would happen to him, or that his followers would abandon ship like they did.

Whatever the answer, I just can't seriously picture Harry lopping Voldemort's head off then watching as the decapitated corpse stumbled about searching for his head while it screamed directions and insults at it.

 

I'll have to agree that my saying it was *more* proof of the AK destroying Horcruxes is off. Still, Voldemort intending to make a Horcrux is irrelevant. What *does* matter is that he'd essentially shredded his soul, and IIRC, Dumbledore called it "unstable." So, the trauma of being blasted out of his body resulted in a part of his soul shearing off and latching onto little Harry.

I admit, I laughed at that mental picture.

I think we agree, then.

I can't help thinking you wrote this while drunk, high, sleep-deprived, or after a massive stroke.

 

Ohai thar, awesome Harry/Lily necrophilia story idea.

 

Hmm, in order: 1. When he was little (I assume you mean in orphanage) - he punked Tom by illusion of fire ? Or by his spells that while impressive looking, would not by that fear-inducing to Tom who could do pretty impressive things himself ? In fact, I would say Dumbledore was the one more shaken after their first meeting.

2. DD kept his eye on him while in school - and I ask, so what ? Riddle did what he wanted, DD was presumably distracted with Grindelwald, Riddle stopped Basilisk out of his own volition etc. Dumbledore was not able after 50 years to find out just how could Riddle murder a student under his long nose.

3. Voldemort must have really feared man who has very quickly abdicated his responsibility to stop him to helpless child because of Prophecy and tried only to capture him. In fact, I would say that Dumbledore was trying to capture, not kill him, even before 1980 (from how is DD depicted in canon).

4. Of course nobody calls Voldemort Tom if only Dumbledore has this info before CoS and he is very "generous" about sharing information. This is only Dumbledore trying to humanize his old student and trying to induce rage in him, it does not make LV afraid of DD in any way.

 

Why would Dumbledore try to kill Voldemort in the MoM fight? He knows Voldemort can't be killed, so that would be completely pointless. In fact, if Voldemort got hit with a fatal blow and just walked it off, it would only make him seem more unbeatable.

All Dumbledore had to do at that moment, was stall for time and protect Harry. Despite Voldemort's surprise!possesion, Dumbledore basicly played him. He kept Harry save and kept Voldemort longer in the MoM than he was supposed to, letting the Ministry finally discover his return. If Dumbledore had gone all out and shown exactly why he was considered the greatest wizard of his time, all of that might not have happened. Harry might have gotten truely hurt, Voldemort might have just run sooner when he couldn't win and he could have caused great damage to the building itself.

How do you think it would have looked if Minister Fudge had found fugitive Albus Dumbledore and his band of merry man wrecking the Ministry, possibly even working together with a bunch of Death Eathers united under the infamous Sirius Black?