I was reading through the start of OOTP the other day to check up a quick fact and was reading the bit where Arabella Figg is called to the stand. She protests that squibs can indeed see dementors, while the narrative seems to imply that she is lying.

I'd always thought of a squib as magically identical to a muggle. The only reason they're in the magical world because of their magical relatives. It got me thinking; if there is no distinction between muggles and squibs, how does Argus Filch work? Hogwarts is described as appearing as ruins to a muggle, which would surely impair his ability as a caretaker, or perhaps explain it. I fail to see how a Squib could work in the wizarding world when so many establishments have non-magical folk repulsion charms. (Didn't want to say muggle there)

I guess my question is. Is there any difference between a muggle and a squib or not, apart from their magical parents?

 

I'm sure there are charms that can cancel repulsion charms. It's magic! Besides, squibs being second category citizens fits my view of magical "world" really well.

 

Yes, there is a difference. I'm not sure exactly where it's spelled out, but squibs aren't subject to Muggle-repelling charms and can interact with the magical world; they just can't use magic.

Edit: Wow, iOS is retarded.

 

No, there isn't a difference. Not only does the text imply Fig was lying, not only are Squibs defined to us as Muggles born to wizards, JKR has also confirmed to us explicitely that Squibs = Muggles.

In the case of Filch, I should imagine that he rarely, if ever, leaves the castle grounds. Once he's in them the repelling charms no longer apply (note that once the Grangers are brought into Diagon Alley they have no problem seeing it. It's only getting in in the first place which they can't do on their own).

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=19

 

I think I've had this argument with Taure before, and he's probably right.

That said, Rowling's language is slightly frustrating in its lack of precision. Why is a squib 'almost' the opposite of a Muggle-born wizard? Similarly, reading canon I had some concept that squibs had a fraction of magical ability - enough to let them do some things muggles couldn't - but I don't think there's any real support for that.

 

"Almost" can be interpreted it a variety of ways. My preference is that a Muggleborn must be born to two Muggles, but a Squib only has to be born to at least one magical parent. So there is a difference in the taxonomic requirements.

 

I guess I had this concept, too...OKAY TAURE, YOU WERE RIGHT.

Also, I suspect I had my beliefs warped by the the fanon interpretation of squibs.

 

I seem to remember a similar discussion awhile back. I remember there was an agreement that Figg didn't see the dementor's at all, but it was left open whether that was because she simply was not there at all, or because she was there and simply couldn't see them. The way it reads in the books it seems like she never got into direct line of sight of them, but rather could still feel them.

 

From what I gathered in OOTP, Arabella could feel the dementors but not see them, just like a Muggle. It was evidenced by her poor description of their physical appearence, while being very accurate when describing the feeling of unhappiness.

I'm with Taure; Muggle = Squib. The only difference is who their parents are. The end result is Muggle = no magic, and Squib = no magic. Fanon has twisted our minds with the concept of Squibs having smaller amounts of magic and being capable of minor feats of spell-work. Which is bullshit for me. Either you got it or you don't.

 

I agree with the overall Squib = Muggle statement, but would add the caveat that there is some canon evidence for the possibility that there are some people who are just horribly untalented at magic that get misidentified as Squibs, like almost happened to Neville.

 

I am not entirely sure what it is, but something does not fit in the squib = muggle theory.
If it were that simple, why not test wizard children for magic by throwing up a muggle repelling charm? If they have magic, the charm wouldn't work. And if they do not, they would simply be turned away.
It is not done like that with Neville. Instead they use outrageously dangerous ways to test him for magic, like dropping him from second floor, out of the window to see if he survives. Even though this could be explained by his relatives innate cruelty, I doubt it.

It could be a question of, do they have active, or inactive magic? Active magic would lead to any normal wizard, and inactive magic would lead to being squib. Thereby squibs would still be able to do / have certain magical things, like filch's cat, which seems disturbingly similar to a familiar. I could expand on this, if you want, but think i made my point.

 

I don't. There was an easy way to see if he had magic: see if he was down to attend Hogwarts. It wasn't really that they doubted he had magic, they just were trying to force it out of him.

Just another example of wizards not being rational, really. (Although, the tricks they pulled on Neville to try to trigger accidental magic are pretty tame compared to something like Quidditch.)

 

The selection process of Hogwarts students isn't really explained in the books. All we really know is that Harry has been registered since birth, which could easily be explained by him surviving the killing curse = Must have magic. There could be plenty of ways to explain how every other student gets their name registered. Like, lets say the first time they show accidental magic, which would make sense. Since Neville hasn't shown any magic before he bounces back up from the fall, how can his family be so sure?

We don't really know. It could also be explained as her fear of the dementors and her inability to defend against them, simply makes her, not want to look at them. To look death in the eyes when you are powerless, and get a good description of his features, when you have a chance to turn your back and flee? well, then it's unlikely you will be able to explain in detail how he looks afterwards. Though, your feelings of terror would be easy to explain.

* Edit. I saw the entire scene in the court as Fudge trying to discredit the witness by claiming she couldn't see them. If it was a know fact, that she couldn't see them, she would clearly be lying when describing them, and Harry's defense would be mostly ruined. Albus wouldn't have wanted her to lie with something so obvious, in such an important case.

I see it more as a manner of Muggle = no magic, Squib = unable to do magic, but unaffected by muggle repelling charms and the like, due to innate magic or something.

I agree with, wizards not being very rational, but what they pulled on Neville is far from tame. You can't really compare it to Quidditch. In Quidditch everyone is aware of the danger, and that is part of what makes it interesting. The players doesn't mind and choose to play even though it could be their last match. That, is their choice. If Neville didn't have magic, he would have died, or been hurt badly, and he didn't have any say, whatsoever.

 

I've always seen the matter as a little more complicated than the straight up and down 'Has magic/Doesn't have magic'. Maybe this has something to do with only really thinking about a squibs' 'magical-ness' during Biology when we had to look into the 'Magical Gene'.

If you put it like that, it's more along the lines of;
Muggle = No magic gene
Squib = Recessive magic gene
Witch/Wizard = Dominant magic gene

Meaning the magic is merely latent in squibs, but as the potential is there, anti-muggle wards and the like don't affect them.

 

^I don't think that it would be quite like that.

If someone is heterozygous with brown eyes dominant and a recessive blue eye allele they'd have brown eyes. I think varying levels of co-dominance in magical alleles could account for the varying levels of magical power people have, and that by that logic you could get some very weak wizards who are almost squibs, but are still magical.

If a squib had a straight up recessive magic gene, and I'm guessing by extension a dominant non-magical gene, I think that would mean they'd be no different to a muggle. They'd have the capacity to perhaps have magical offspring, but are not magical themselves at all.

Also, thinking further . . . Hermione being a muggle-born with both her parents Muggles, one or both of them had to have latent magical genes which would invalidate the idea that somehow latent magic genes meant anti-muggle wards don't apply. They wouldn't work at all if this were the case with a section of the muggle population. Possibly a very large section.

Edit: The pure-blood racism in wizarding society is so deeply ingrained that I think that wizards would be willing to have two different words for the same thing, creating an unnecessary distinction. The series often shows that some magical families are ashamed of producing squibs. I imagine they wouldn't want to call their children muggles.

 

^Much better explanation of magical genetics than my own attempt.

Yep, didn't think my example through very well. Scrap that. I have no real reason to think squibs any more magical than muggles.

 

Except
a) The killing curse thing wasn't at birth
b) That wouldn't explain muggleborns and the like, if registration was needed.

Some fanfics have some sort of 'magic detector' that adds the names to the book, or something like that. Alternatively, registration could be for the magical community, while detection of accidental magic by the ministry leads to finding muggleborns and registering them, or something. Though Hagrid does mention that Harry was registered since his birth; I guess that could be either Hagrid not being quite accurate or the Potters and Dumbledore confident enough to enroll Harry from birth, as they knew they were going into hiding.

 

This may have some bearing- my recollection was Hagrid saying Harry was registered for Hogwarts almost from birth. If magic shows up in children in the first few years of life through accidental incidents (and Neville was repressed due to trauma visited on him by Bellatrix), Harry may have exhibited accidental magic very early. Thus, the pride of signing him up so soon (and with the Potter money behind it, his tuition was probably paid in full as well).

There has been so much interpolation in HP fanfiction that it becomes difficult to filter out the well-reasoned concepts, particularly when they're widely re-used. The magical Hogwarts register has become more than it ever actually was, I think.

 

Wouldn't it be stupid from Dumbledore to force Figg to lie about seeing the dementors instead of only feeling them if we assume that she didn't see them?
For a double bluff it could have backfired in a bad way for all people involved.

Dumbledore could have assumed that Fudge didn't wanna dig deeper because he might have thought that Fudge was involved in this, but if he wasn't he could have asked for oath/truth serum which would have probably put Figg into prison, damaged Dumbledore even more and also fucked Harry's chances to get out of this political tribunal undamaged.

I always understood the smell of cabbage in her house as an allusion that she was cooking potions. My understanding was always that potions would require some level of magic on the side of the brewer.

Therefore I think a better approach to the Squib problem is a level of inherent magical power scale which defines a squib and a wizard, something which would also give some credence behind Filch’s Kwikspell. They could have been spells designed for people with lower power than normally required but in Filch's case he just hadn't enough even for them. If squibs are rare, why would anybody waste effort on such rip off scheme anyway?

But in the end it all falls back on JKR to not really thinking through her own ideas.

 

In something that Taure quoted before, it was stated that the Kwikspell thing didn't work.

My question is, can muggles see ghosts? Because I was sure that it had been said somewhere that they couldn't. If that's the case, then there's a definite distinction between squibs and muggles, as Filch seems capable of interacting with Peeves.