CrimsonFox: its Day 1. No one has died.

 

Q: I'm sure he knows.

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It's just too bad that the people that actually know him need his vote and so they're refusing to bury him. : o

 

Ah yes, I saw your post. CrimsonFox is solidly in yellow now.
Typhon Read this.

I get that it's about Von, not fonti, but honestly I feel all of your points have the same ring to them. For instance, clearing miner early on: no, I didn't get it. But I never do, and Von/fonti/a bunch of you regularly have these reactions that indicate player alignment early on with very little to go on. I'll find examples if you like. And I don't see any principled difference in the way its been handled here from there.

 

I haven't wandered away or died or anything, the argument is just somewhat extensive and I'm making sure I make it properly.

Q, I ask you reserve judgement regarding the nature of my arguments against fonti until you read the post I'm working on.

 

I wasn't scumreading Font yet. I put my trust in the wrong person, took what she said for granted before reconsidering later on.

Note how in my first readwall, which is a while after this exchange, I was only just cottoning on to Font, she's above Vaimes and tom.

The reason I voted tom instead of Typhon myself is quite simple really. Vaimes voted Typhon so I didn't want to do tat at that point.

All was changed when I looked back at stuff later on with scum!Fonti in mind.

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Miner You know I'm a sucker for rainbow walls. Coming right up.

 

That doesn't really answer my question.

 

Mmmkay, fonti. Prepare yourselves, it's wallin' time.

1. Let's start with the issue of her pocketing mal. So, prior to the interaction in question (79-80), mal and fonti had one interaction, where mal noticed fonti was more agreeable than normal. In the intervening time, mal had questioned me on who had not yet posted in the game that I was most anticipating posting. I had responded Q for reasons, and he responded with post 79. fonti followed immediately with 80 and said nothing further.

The next instance is the exchange that Mal himself has noticed and discussed in 799. His reasoning stands, really. Like, the whole post is a good post, but insofar as the particular issue of pocketing goes, the part beginning with "And thin consider both..." about halfway down is very clear and concise.

When fonti addresses Mal after 799 in 829, she pretty much just straight up appeals to him. It is, in essence "Mal, I respect your scum game so I just took time on you I didn't take elsewhere. I think you're probably towny. This not what you think it is. Be reasonable and see that we're clearly town." Which might be okay in a vacuum, had she not been making attempts to pocket him all day. But as it is it clearly looks like more of the same, and 835 and 858 only continue this trend.

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2. Next we discuss the reaches for some of the reads. I'll actually come back to this in an incidental sort of way in a later section, but for now let's note the stretches themselves that stand out.

a. I'm "actually scum" in 70.
b. Miner "seems town" in 114.
c. She thinks Math is town in 141.
d. This is the most obvious town play that she has ever seen from Vaimes in 831.

For context, a. is from 60, b. is from 92 and 112, c. has it's reasoning stated here (see my counterargument here and here), and my issue with d. should be apparent to anyone who has played with Vaimes in the past. He does not of necessity have to be scum, but either he is and they're aiming to powerwolf or he isn't and she's making sure he doesn't reassess on her by building him a house inside her pocket, because I have seen Vaimes elsewhere, and he is not always the king of fluff, but this is decidedly not him at "his most obvious towniness" and everyone here knows that.

"But Typhon", you say, "fonti is wise and powerful, and sometimes she gets things before us/you." I personally believe that to be a slippery slope argument that lets her slide into justifying a lot of things, but fair enough. Let's move on.

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3. She's dishonest in how she's approaching the game. This is the big one, and also the one where I ask you to bear with me, because I know that many people are going to see that and think "okay, cool, more Typhon OMGUS". It's not that, hear me out.

Read back through our exchange last night. It starts with 1280. That whole stretch is not my finest moment, I was salty as fuck, but read from there to 1349 (especially 1302 to 1349). Not linking it all here because the post would be fuck-off big if I did, but the gist is this: she isn't engaging with me in a real way - she's setting up strawmen to knock over in a way town!fonti wouldn't have to, because town!fonti would have actual evidence to support her.

The first instance of this is to throw her support behind an insane interpretation of 1287, in which I made that post because I "forgot how I was reading her alignment" and had accepted my own lynch and got confused as to how she would feel about the results of my flip. And it makes no sense to have come to that conclusion at all, but she then doubles down in 1352 with examples of tone that demonstrate her conclusion. The only counterexample she could "find" where I showed any "bravado" was one that I had mention by name earlier. For reference, here are some more (702, 876 (lol, she was actually tagged in this one), 1182, 1235, and 1238.

"But Typhon", you say, "that doesn't actually mean anything. That's you being butthurt at how she's reading you, which is not compelling in any way."

I disagree entirely. It's not that she's wrong, it's how she's wrong. First, the first post that she dug up to support her tonal argument was 637. That is before 702, which is as far back as I looked for evidence. Thus, presumably, she read that far back in order to make this weird case on me, and yet didn't see any of the examples I cited, which are equally numerous.

If fonti actually cares about my alignment, she sees this and abandons the argument as not having been as stark as she thought. Because if town!fonti thinks I'm scummy enough to have me lynched right here, then she has real reasons, and presumably would produce them instead of bringing this weak ass shit in on me that will stand up to no scrutiny.

We see that again in the exchange about Miner and me claiming her read on him was a tmi read. It would have been incredibly easy for her to have just said what she did in response to tom in 1345 from the beginning, and I would have grumbled but accepted that. But she didn't. Because until 2 other people agreed with my point and openly questioned her about the reachy townread in the thread, she tried to spin a tale of how I should just know that she was more capable than me, and that if I was town I'd just be happy our reads ended in the same place irrespective of anything else.

And she only fell back to that claim after she tried and failed to misconstrue my claim of her reaching for a townread as me having an inconsistent read on Miner in 1314.

So, let me get to my point here. If this is town fonti, and she brings the pressure on her scumread and her arguments turn out to be largely false and/or invalid, she goes back to the lab to figure out if maybe, maybe, she might be wrong. That she aggressively plowed ahead here in trying to lynch me despite that none of the things she allegedly believed of me were true is a gravely negative sign.

Put differently, to catch good scum, you have to watch their thought processes. Town players change perspective as new information rolls in - scum players do not, because they cannot, because at some point they've committed irrevocably to someone. Fonti has committed irrevocably to me, and so it didn't matter that her arguments rang false - we're down the rabbithole, now.

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4. Also, as just a bonus item for you guys, we have this.

People who read our spat will recall this line from the range I suggested you read. Fun fact? Despite this sentiment, her vote was not on me at any point in the exchange. Interesting move for town fonti, there.

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So yeah, I'm sorry about the length, and the wall, and whatever, but please read this shit. She's a witch and she needs to die. Preferably right now.

 

Jarizok
Cobalt
His Fluffiness
Mathblade
Miner
The Waco Kid
Quiddity
Delphine
Mallorean Thug
Typhon
DLGN
Jan
CrimsonFox (r. Corrdorr)
Tom
Fontisian
Snowvon

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Oh yh, you want to know what made me actually believe tom was scum, my bad. I have no idea of the top of my head, lol, let me reread it.

 

Jarizok mallorean_thug Quiddity

Read the wall and help me lynch a witch please.
Vaimes

Read the wall and explain to me how fontisian is town please.

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Also his fluffiness Miner

Read the wall and help me lynch a witch please

 

Uhm, Typhon, I don't know how to tell you this, but... my vote is already on Font.

I already made a kick ass case on Font. You're kinda late to the party.

I'm actually being harrassed by Delphine right this very second for my kick ass Fonti case.

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Delphine As an aside, dlGN hasn't really shown his true colours yet I feel like. No strong feelings either way. His mistrust of Fonti lands him the null spot above Jan though.

And since I mentioned him, does anyone else think Jan is probably 3p this game?

 

Oh. Heh. So you are. Good on you, friend. Fight the good fight.

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But also 3P speculation is worthless right now. Worry about that later if you must.

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Where did you case/vote fonti?

 

Delphine You know what? I... don't think I was very convinced of tom's scumminess at the time of my vote.

I had just entered the game, hadn't voted anyone yet and tom was waffling on my strong-for-the-time Vaimes scumread. Font asked me to vote him, I just... kinda did it. Why not at that point, ye know?

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Typhon Lemme just iso myself.

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#1108 and onward for a bit.

 

Hmm. Noted. Thanks for the reference.

 

Vote Count 1.7
Tom (6): His Fluffiness, Miner, Quiddity, Fontisian, Vaimes, Jan
Fontisian (5): Jarizok, The Waco Kid, Typhon, Cobalt, MathBlade
Miner (2): Tom, CrimsonFox
Typhon (2): DLGN, Mallorean thug
Jarizok (1): Delphine

Abstaining (0):

With 16 alive, 9 is soft lynch, and 13 is hard lynch.

There are less than 6 hours left in Day One. Timer.

 

Out of curiosity, was the lynch led by mafia or town? Were her reads accurate or no?

Maybe I'm not giving scum enough credit by kinda assuming she's never the d1 mislynch of choice. idk.

 

It was initially led by bad town and forced through by mafia.

 

I strongly suggest looking at the posts Typhon cited. I looked through the posts for 3, and with the exception of 702 (which I apologize for missing) they do not say what he claims they say.

Typhon, in the future, actually quote the posts and specific wording you're talking about, so that they can be better assessed by readers.

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Led by mafia and a few bad town. Reads were mostly accurate, except a scumread on hiplop, who ended up pushing me for it, and a townread on Citrus, who used it to kill me.

 

Not sure if Jarizok is more towny for having near-identical reads to me or less. Probably more.

 

Guys they let me spin the price is right wheel after i heped inot all the clicky arrow.
I'm not usually impressed with shows I work, but this one is hitting me right in the "snow day in elementary school" nostalgia.

So I don't think typh's case is bad/wrong, but it's a bit reachy.
The part I like is how fontis reads haven't evolved at all. It's the same with me, she literally decided based on my first post and has never considered a world where I might be town.

Id much rather miner than either of them.

 

Looking at this, I think we have the votes to lynch Font.

We need 4 more right?

Tom is quite capable of self voting over voting Font, but let's assume he joins the wagon. Dunno bout CF.

DLGN and Mal need to pick either tom or Font anyway. There's plenty of distrust for Font there. May both hop on the Font wagon.

That could be 9 already (what I've seen from Delphine, she won't Font), but Miner wanted a Font lynch as well if I remember correctly and Fluff and Q could be convinced I feel like.

If you wanna push this through Typhon, Fluff and Q are probably the people you should be trying to convince.

I'll be afk for a bit but I'll help where I can.