Spoiler

No, fuck Dean for this. He (and Sam and Bobby and every other hunter) trample on the law and on ethics time and time again to kill monsters, to save other people from them but as soon as a monster does it, it's bad and they should be killed. We KNOW Dean would have done the same if he were in Kaylee's/Amy's shoes. I always opposed the "ALL monsters are bad" theme the show was running with for the longest time, which is why I really liked the vampires who didn't want to kill, the werewolf chick, the first time Ruby appeared and now Kaylee (fuck Dean twice for actually killing Kaylee, by the way).

Actually credit for the writers for actually having a decent monster who didn't do things because she was "evil" but rather for saving her only son. Also, what kind of hypocrisy is it to leave the son alive? If things are what they are, and if he doesn't believe creatures can't change their nature, why live the son alive if he beliefs that it will kill someone. Just needlessly cruel to kill someone in front of a child. If Dean was really convinced that things can't change, he would have killed the child too, even if it never killed anything. Just proves that he mostly did it, because he wanted to spite Sam and that he is breaking down.

Yeah, we can expect a Dean meltdown somewhere this season. It would actually be good if Dean was wrong now and then. On morally ambiguous issues, he stands annoyingly self-righteous on a few things and what's the most infuriating about those was that he was right about them, like Sam using demon blood to exorcise and so on.

Overall, good episode, really liked the Dilemma here

 

Pfft. He was right to kill her. That's my opinion.

If you want arguments, go look in the death sentence thread.

Also, if you've forgotten, Dean has spent a lot of time in hell, and was forced to torture others. Thinking that he has a sane mind is pointless. So yeah, I doubt he'll show any mercy to a creature whose very nature is to kill.

One another note, this same theme was also seen in another episode, where another hunter tried to kill the pregnant wife of a monster.

 

He was right to kill her because he was unstable? What kind of justification is that?

I am not saying that it was out of character for Dean to do what he did or that Dean wouldn't have done that any other time but that he was wrong for doing so.

 

Fucking Hell. :facepalm

I'm this close to dropping Supernatural. I'm sick of Dean and the others doing worser and worser hypocritical shit and Dean's self-righteous attitude.

 

Look on the bright side, Hash: Sam is sympathetic for the first time since season 3 ended!

 

Perhaps, but to be honest, I'm not feeling this season. The Leviathan just aren't that interesting, and our heroes kinda deserve chomping.

 

I've been saying that since 6 started. :/

For me, Supernatural actually ended with Season 5. All this stuff is just EU.

 

Well now this is just complete and utter nonsense, if you follow this logic then Dean should be burned at the stake for all the pediatricians and nurses and teachers that he's murdered when a demon was riding them. To me the simple fact is she offed one scum bag drug dealer to save her childs life and bent over backwards to make sure that she never hurt anyone else. Deans actions this entire episode make him a hypocrite and a coward, I honestly don't think I've ever liked him less than I do right now.

 

I never said Dean didn't deserve it. Both Dean and Sam have killed more than their fair share of innocent people. From a certain point of view all hunters are career criminals/mass murderers. However, that's still irrelevant to the events of this episode. The identity and character of the girl's killer has no bearing on what the girl herself did. She didn't just kill one scum bag drug dealer. She killed several people, or it wouldn't have made it into the paper as some kind of serial killing. And when Sam caught up with her, wasn't she stalking a guy trying to get into his car? I believe we can safely presume she was about to kill him. That guy didn't look like a drug dealer to me, and even if he was, she has no right to decide whether someone lives or dies, even for the sake of her son. She murdered people, there's really no way around that, for her and for the Winchesters. Her and their motives absolve nothing, I sympathize with her trying to save her son and the brothers killing demons and stuff, but I think in this case the ends do not justify the means.

 

This is yet again utterly silly, if you take this stance then Sam and Dean are no longer allowed to do anything but exorcisms to demons. After all what right do they have to decide whether someones mother or father dies to save strangers? I mean if killing to save your sons life is wrong then certainly that has to be wrong as well doesn't it?

 

I'm not trying to say that those things didn't need to be done. From what I gather, she had to kill some people and get some fresh brains or her son was going to die, and I don't think anyone would argue that demons need killing. But that still doesn't make anything they did right or morally admirable. That's why I'm saying this is a very morally ambiguous situation, how do you deal with something like that? What kind of consequences/punishments would be appropriate for their circumstances and human/nonhuman condition?

I'm also not trying to come down on one side or the other. My point isn't that the girl deserves to die/live for her actions, or that the Winchesters deserve to die/live for their actions. I'm just really, really confused and conflicted about the whole thing, as well as little taken aback at how quickly other members seem to take a side.

 

So how do you draw the line then? Because what this basically comes down to me is that Amy went waaaaaaaaaaaay out of her to avoid killing humans whenever she could and yet Dean still knifed her in the gut while she was begging for her and her childs life based simply on the idea that because she wasn't human that somehow makes her killings different from all the ones Sam and Dean have committed.

Why? Dean was a hypocrite and a coward in this episode, I'm not taken aback at all.

 

All of you are forgetting one important detail.

Naruto/fem Kyuubi pairing just got interesting. :awesome

 

I don't understand, draw the line between what? Could you explain what you mean? I think you might be seeing my arguments in a way that I did not intend.

Actually, I might have to ask you to explain all of your points. I apologize, but what you're trying to say is just really not getting through to me. Especially about the part where Dean kills her because she wasn't human and that somehow makes her killings different. I would also like a little clarification about the hypocrite and coward part.

Also, yes for Naruto/fem Kyuubi.

 

I'm asking how do you draw the line between what killings warrant death from a hunter and what don't? After all Sam and Dean regularly kill demon hosts because they can't be arsed to do an exorcism in defense of complete strangers with totally innocent hosts. All Amy did was kill a few scumbags to save her child's life and yet that somehow warrants death.

I find Dean to be a hypocrite in this episode because all Amy did was murder a few scumbags to save her dying childs life when Sam and Dean would do infinitely worse to save one another and I find him a coward for knifing her in the gut while she wasn't resisting and trying to beg for her and her childs life.

 

Okay, I see. I never said that Amy deserved to die. There is no line to be drawn, and I'm certainly not trying to draw one, because it is impossible to find a clear distinction in this situation. The entire thing is ambiguous, which was my whole point from the start. Like I said, I'm not trying to come down on one side or the other. I'm not trying to say that Amy deserves to die/live for her actions, or that the Winchesters deserve to die/live for their actions.

Amy killed people, she murdered people, some were scumbags, some were just worse people than others. She did it to save her son but that doesn't make it right, ever. What kind of people the victims were are irrelevant, and shouldn't even be considered in these situations. Just like the Winchesters, Amy cannot decide who deserves to live and who deserves to be fed to her son. You cannot tell me that she doesn't deserve some kind of severe punishment/consequence for her actions. Had Amy been a human being, I don't think anyone would disagree that she should be arrested. While I am certain that it is not the case, it seems as if Amy is being glorified for her actions, like she did the world a favor or something. She murdered people, and not all of those people were straight-up criminals, just unpleasant. And even they were all criminals, it's still murder, it's still wrong. Like I said before, what kind of people the victims were are irrelevant. There is nothing about her actions with regards to her son which are in any way morally admirable.

Whether she deserves to die or not, I cannot say. It would not be right to just let her go like Sam planned to. She did what she had to do, but it doesn't make it right. Humans can be prosecuted in a court of law and should be prosecuted in this case, but monsters can't. So Dean kills her because he can't just let her go free, not after what she did. Was it right for Dean to kill her? I don't think so, but I can't understand how people can just say "fuck Dean for what he did". My lack of understanding frustrates me.

As for the Winchesters themselves, they've killed a shitload of people. Not exactly boy scouts. In some circumstances where they kill demons along with their hosts, it's to save someone else in imminent danger. Where they literally do not have the time or opportunity to do an exorcism. Other times they just kill people, I haven't figured out if it's because they stopped caring or if it's the show trying to save time. Dean acknowledges this, he knows he's not a good person, he mentions it several times in the past, all the stealing and killing. I'm not sure where I was going with this paragraph so I'm just going to stop, it's way too TLDR anyway.

I would like to say however, that you my friend, are a

 

Eh, I have mixed feelings on Dean's actions, but you guys are ignoring the real dilemma.

Spoiler

The cheese. Such a good thing being used for evil. Broke my heart.

 

And I'm not either but Dean is, he decided point blank that everything he did was fine but because Amy wasn't human and she did it she deserved to die, do you get where Im at here?

You misunderstand me a hair here I believe, I am not trying to say that Amy should be given a medal for what she did but considering that we both know Sam and Dean would drag a 95 year old nun in off the street and cut her throat to save one another if it came down to it Dean had absolutely no right whatsoever to kill Amy for what she did. His actions make him a hypocrite of the highest order in my eyes.

You make a reasonable case but my point is that Dean should not have done what he did and because he did it makes him both a hypocrite and a coward. He killed a woman begging for her and her childs life for doing the same things he and his brother have done on the basis the it only counts when the perp isn't human, that is what makes me say Fuck Dean Straight back to the Pit.

Ehhh I can understand the gist of your point and I get the concept of 1 or 1000 but the thing to me is that Amy only killed scum and she only killed them to save her childs life, before her child got sick like he was Amy bent over backwards to make damned sure not one solitary human was hurt by her physiological needs. Where as Sam and Dean even when the option is cleanly available to them avoid doing to the exorcism to just fucking shove the knife in their ribs. Yet Dean decided she warranted death for her actions and that fact disgusts me.

Well shit I think Im going to blush, thank you, Im just expressing the way I saw it.

 

Coming out of longtime lurkdom to add my 2cents...

While it was a morally questionable and horrible thing to do I honestly can't imagine Dean doing anything else in terms of his characterisation. Sam has always been the character that sees shades of grey while Dean focuses on purely keeping his family alive and functioning.

Sam can empathise with Lenore, Maddison and the ruguru from season 4 because he feels like a freak himself, as he explicitly stated in this episode, while Dean just sees monsters/ threats. Although this reeks of hypocrisy considering the horrible things both he and Sam have done at least the writers have acknowledged it. When Dean first learned Sam was using his powers in season 4 he point blank said that if Sam wasn't his brother he would hunt him. He also didn't think he deserved to be raised from the pit due to the horrible things he'd done. If this was what he felt in season 4 just think how all those feelings must have been amplified by the events that have occurred since then.

So while it was a terrible thing to do I genuinely believe that in order to stay true to Deans character the writers couldn't have made any other decision. The only thing that may change how he thinks is if he has an emotional breakdown and I think I can foresee one those coming up this season.

As for why he didn't kill the kid, well he didn't kill the shifter baby, half demon kid or pregnant ruguru wife. He obviously doesn't kill things that have yet to knowingly murder someone so why should he start now?