Many readers and writers think Dumbledore a better villain than Voldemort. Conflicts with puppet masters who have the general public under their control can in fact prove very entertaining to read, if done correctly.

The problem? Dumbledore's plans are usually rash, predictable and transparent in stories that walk down this path.

The plots used against Harry are often complex and filled with far too many pawns and variables. Overusing oblivivations and external magical influences doesn't speak very highly of manipulation skills, either.

Why use all those insignificant sheep to brainwash Harry, when it can be done much more subtly and with almost no effort? He's just an impressionable eleven-years-old boy when he enters Hogwarts, after all.


This thread is intended as a breeding ground for well thought out and logical plot bunnies featuring an Evil! Manipulative!Dumbledore, or at least a fairly competent one. Let's stop being irritated over badly done Dumbledores in Indy!Harry fics. We should twist the character according to our needs, with the usual DLP level of excellence.

 

Exactly the same as canon, except the 'Dumbledore' that died was some polyjuiced homeless guy under an Imperio. Or any other way to make a passable body double - he is a transfiguration genius. Dumbles knows enough strings to get whoever he wants as the next Minister, and the next Headmaster of Hogwarts would follow 'suggestions' his portrait as if they were commands from the Gods. He's got just as much influence if not more, and no-one knows he's in the middle of the web.

 

This!

Expand it.

 

The "problem" is that canon!Dumbledore's plans were like that too, thus if you want to write him in character his plans have to be like that.

 

The good guys were extremely lucky that the war didn't turn out a hell of a lot worse. Dumbledore's strategy of making rough plans instead of having everything set in stone seemed to work pretty well, though.

The evidence of Canon!Dumbledore having anything to do with Harry's friendship with the Weasleys is nonexistent. This is something Weasley haters are very keen on using in Indy!Harry fics.

What I meant to say is that that writers shouldn't make Dumbledore's plot unnecessarily convoluted when they turn him into an antagonist.

 

I know that. I didn't say anything about Weasleys. I'm talking about his actual plans, like getting Harry to rescue the stone in PS/SS. They also depended on too many variables and pawns.

For instance, how could he have reasonable expectations that Harry would find the Mirror of Erised while wondering the school?

 

I read a pretty good theory about this a while back. Basically, Dumbledore didn't want Harry to save the the Stone, he only wanted to trap Quirrell in front of the mirror. Testing the Potter boy was just a bonus.
Fair point, though.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with this now after reading it. That was just to epic to actually turn into a real story. And the whole idea would be ruined if Harry somehow disrupted Dumbledore's plot. And I personally don't think it'd be that good of a read to see Harry always being manipulated so well by Dumbledore. So, I think that idea should just stay as a one-shot.

In fact, that's my whole problem with the Antagonist!Dumbledore idea. Evil!Dumbledore would just be entirely to intelligent for anything to really develop in the story. I guarantee Dumbledore would have a multitude of contigency plans if something didn't happen just like he wanted, so that he could get everything back on track. I mean I love the whole Antagonist!Dumbledore idea, but I just can't see it making a good full length story.

 

I think a cool idea for a good manipulative Dumbledore is as follows: Dumbledore sets it up such that things proceed like a typical indy!Harry plot - Harry discovers his friends have been lying to him, Dumbledore was planning to sacrifice him, and so on. Harry then runs away and goes into training. An unspecified amount of time later, Harry emerges from training and defeats Voldemort.

What Harry doesn't know is that Dumbledore planned the whole thing. It was Dumbledore who set up the original "betrayal" scenario, with the sole purpose of Harry discovering it. It was Dumbledore who allowed Harry to get away, when really he could have found him at any moment. It was Dumbledore who covertly provided the materials for Harry's training - materials that Harry wouldn't have been able to get otherwise.

Of course, this would make a rather bad story, as it would read exactly like an indy!Harry fic right up until the end, when all is revealed. But it's a fun idea.

 

Taure: It would work if it is told in both Harry's and Dumbledore's point of views. The reader could learn just as much about the machinations as it is needed to wonder about Dumbledore's actual intentions.

A great fic with manipulative!Dumbledore is this one shot:
DrT's "The Legends & the Stooges of Fate"

Indy!Harry with evil!Dumbledore is more often than not just a poorly drafted attempt at turning over canon. The authors usually don't even bother with creating convincing plot ideas. They try to explain every event of the last five books as part of Dumbledore's manipulations without creating a long-term scheme. It's just all "for the greater good".



ps.: LOOOOOL - the spell checker tried to replace "Taure" by "Tara".

 

Taure: It could make a decent one-shot where Dumbledore explains how Harry did exactly what he was supposed to do.

 

Taure; there was a thread in the challenge section with basically the same idea. I wrote a teaser about it in the WbA section but that hasn't been updated in years. As a full length story though I don't think it would be any good unless Harry discovers whats going on after his so called independent streak and then attempts to work against Dumbledore without letting the old man on. After all if Harry confronts Dumbledore on it whats to say he doesn't have a contingency plan.