What does everyone think of the Death Eaters skills/power level?

The inner circle 'in theory' should be feared duelists but we havent seen it in the books.

My impression is that Bella and Snape are on par with Moody, maybe Doholov too. Lucius can hold his own against the better OotP members like Minerva and Kingsley. Most of the other inner circle members would be around auror levels.

The other DE's seem to be cannon fodder, not even up to auror levels.

Your thoughts?

 

Depends. I feel that for the vast majority of DE's, they simply know spells that law enforcement doesn't. If you know how to cast curses that the government won't teach it's law enforcement, and that the majority of a population don't know, you don't need much in the way of skill to be a successful terrorist. And frankly, when your average Joe Wizard sees the DE garb/Dark Mark, they know that Voldemort and Inner Circle have your back - which is a weapon of its own. When you're with a group of people who can set up a Taboo on a name, and basically squash out anyone who wants to be rebellious, who cares about furthering one's skill?

 

I consider them average wizards, merely trained and willing to use the Dark Arts.

 

I usually prefer a smart enemy, so I have death eaters me mildly intelligent and not just canon fodder, usually I'll use numbers as their strength though and have them focus on the unforgivables or simpler dark curses if I deem them too weak for the unforgiveables.

Then there's the inner circle which is the elite, these are the guys and girls who can actually kick some ass, I probably tend to make Bella the most fearsome one since she's insane and therefore unpredictable. I see Lucius as more of a politician with a slightly aptitude for fighting but in my opinion he's in the inner circle due to his money and scheming ability, not for his fighting abilities. The rest I probably put on level with Order members like Tonks and Bill/Charlie, the aurors like Kingsley are higher level while Moody and Snape are probably up with Bella.

In essence though I don't think it really matters what skil level you put the death eaters at as long as it fits the other characters of the story, I've been thoroughly annoyed at stories that had low level death eaters outmatch the higher ups in the Order, which is really just stupid since most of them are trained aurors.

 

I'd prefer them to be at above-auror level, myself. Only the auror elite, like Moody or Kingsley, should be able to take on an inner-circle deatheater. It isn't any fun if it isn't like that.

In the book I consider them to be nothing more than 'toy box' bad guys for JKR to play around with. They are just another one of her means to an end. They can't take out six school children, but they can take out Tonks, and duel the others to a standstill? RIGHT...

 

Sadly, the Death Eaters in canon suffer from the Stormtrooper syndrome. Although stormtroopers are supposed to be elite fighters, superbly trained and equipped, as we have seen the clone troopers in the prequel trilogy, they end up being killed by poorly trained wretches in the original trilogy, because there needs to be some evil people that the good guys can kill at will.

I dislike the notion that Death Eaters are weaklings myself, but in order to not make them super powerful I divide them by categories.

Inner Circle members are elite fighters, up to the level of Flitwick in his dueling days. Remember they were feared in the First War due to their ruthlessness and fighting abilities. The Aurors were even authorized to use Unforgivables in order to tackle them.

Death Eaters, making up a large portion of the Dark Lord's forces are well trained, Dark Arts specialists that are effective in their actions. Someone like Dumbledore or a proper Harry could take them out without breaking a sweat, but they will trample over Aurors at will.

I generally like to introduce a third tier in the Dark Lord's forces in order to provide some poorly trained recruits to mirror the sentiment of weak evil forces. Generally I see them as the ones that have joined Voldemort for power but cannot measure up to the rest. Including non-Purebloods in their ranks, they are used as Stupefy fodder and are generally sent ahead to weaken the enemy before the cavalry comes in. I have not come up with a name yet, but I will.

 

What about someone like Igor Karkaroff where would he fit? True he was a former Death Eater but he became Headmaster of Durmstrang and survived for a year after he deserted Voldemort. So he must be pretty powerful or cunning.

 

Death Eaters are humans who, contrary to the house they love, are unambitious and stupid. They're willing to sell themselves to some leader who has no use for them other than as a distraction force.

The "elite" DE, I liken to a mixed bag. Some are powerful like Bella, others are just influential. It's more a title than anything. I really don't see Malfoy as powerful, or even exceptional.

Really, Voldemort would be better off with monsters as his minions. Especially since some of them are resistant/immune to magic.

 

The more elite your Death Eaters, the more elite your Harry. Now, in some cases that's a good thing. In other cases, Hermione and Ron are elite as well. In other cases, the entire DA is on par with Dumbledore and fit into cookie cutter like characterizations.

There is a gap between the Inner Circle and the rest, surely, but up until the final book I wasn't sure that Snape was a member of that Inner Circle (I'm not looking it up to find out, but someone can certainly tell me if I'm wrong) and yet he was still capable of doing Voldemort-esque magic in the 7th.

As for Karkaroff, he is presented as a bit of a coward, but then again, he is capable of becoming Headmaster at one of the 3 greatest schools in Europe, so it's safe to say he's above the magical skill of many of the Death Eaters.

The great thing about fanfiction is that it's all up to you to judge; the worst thing about fanfiction is that most people don't deserve the right.

 

I hate when people point this out. Malfoy Sr. and his crew were handcuffed by the fact that they needed to get the prophesy intact. They can't throw around powerful spells for fear that the glass ball is broken and no one hears it. They can't even use stunners, they might hit Harry and he could drop the ball. Throw in some insanity on Bella's part, a dash of Azkaban rust, and a good amount of smugness, arrogance, and over-confidence, and you have a recipe for an upset. Even with the bad start, Harry and Co. are soon outmatched and on the verge of being defeated when the cavalry arrives. Even then, its Dumbledore that proves to be the tipping point.

People forget, the objective was to retrieve the prophesy, not to kill a bunch of kids.

As for the Death Eater ranks, I think they're largest strength is their willingness to use the Unforgivables. As with any terrorist/rebel group, they are free to use any means necessary to win, including tactics that the Aurors are trained NOT to do. The police are after all supposed to bring in criminals alive to stand trial. They are trained to use lethal force as a last resort, whereas the DEs start with lethal force and go from there.

 

The Death Eaters were crippled by their inability to use lethal or overly destructive spells, but it is still a fact that a number of them, including Inner Circle members, are woefully lacking in skill. Many of them got incapacitated by simple spells from 5th year students for short periods of time.

The way I see it, the only competent Death Eater, one who deserves the term elite, is Bellatrix. (Or rather, was Bella, until she got her butt kicked by a fat housewife of all people.)

As one said, in canon, the only reason people fear Death Eaters so much is their infamy, and their willingness to use lethal spells. They have proven to be lacking in skill, but an ordinary wizard who hasn't duelled in ages will fear a man slings around Killing Curses like there's no tomorrow, even if he is more skilled than him, and this fear would already cost him half the fight should it arise. Add the Death Eater's association to Voldemort, and I'm guessing people just don't bother to try fighting back, but run away (and get killed) instead.

Voldemort is the only truly powerful villain in the Potter-verse. I'd peg him at Dumbledore's skill level, and if Dumbledore's presence can already arouse so much fear in the Death Eaters that they flee immediately upon seeing him, which led to him easily rounding them all up, the same can be applied to Voldemort when facing Aurors.

 

My thoughts on death eaters, at one time the inner circle members were the elite, best trained and often special due to what resources they bring to the cause. Of course they peeked at 1980 and since then have had a decade to become rusty.

Of course then there is the average rank and file death eater, that should just be equal to an average witch or wizard but with degree of dark arts training (focusing on the killing curse and possibly the somewhat good at the other two). In this case one on one and even two on one verse someone like Harry or Dumbledore they should get beat easy or unless they get lucky.

Then there is the new death eaters, really they are such a random mix of mostly lousy to moderately skilled witches and wizards. With maybe a few rough gems.

Skill level wise Dumbledore has one of the highest along with Moody and Shacklebolt. Really though it is a toss up between three which is better and we are not really sure if Dumbledore is the most skilled of them (yet he is usually regarded by most as the greatest around). In truth when it comes to war Shacklebolt is probably who I'd pick as most valuable. He is much younger than the other two and should last far longer, less magical power or not.

Nobody should be able to really deny that Harry has likely equal or greater raw power to Voldemort and Dumbledore. There are enough events that allude to it both before and during his school years. His major weakness is being poorly trained and ignorant. Though in enough fanon fics there is the idea he has artificial limitations placed upon him by another wizard (usually Dumbledore).

Voldemort is so feared mostly due to his larger raw power and dark arts skills. Granted a ministry team of ten aurors of average power and decent skill could possibly subdue him (if they were brave enough and managed to keep him from escaping). Really it comes down to getting him alone and cornered, yet he never goes anywhere alone. Yeah not all of the aurors from that team would survive such a encounter. Of course once subdued, there is major problems keeping and then incarcerating him (just chucking his body through the death vale might work, though if you factor in the horcruxes then that is less clear what the outcome would be).

Are death eaters elite fighters or cannon fodder, well the inner circle is a mix of both and the others are more clearly cannon fodder (certainly the new ones).

 

You simply have got to be joking. Harry, with power greater or equal to Voldemort or Dumbledore? Ludicrous. All the Super!Harry fanfics you've read must have gotten to you, or you were not reading the same HP books that the rest of us had.

In canon, Harry is little more than above-average skill-wise. In fact, that would be overestimating him. It is not his power, which he has not shown to possess much, but his luck that has tided him through all his crises.

 

People always debate about this-- whether Harry's any special or not in his magical skill/power. It's true that we haven't seen much of him using uber-level spells and causing mayhem all round. The only times we've seen him do impressive things seem to be the time he cast his Patronus in his third year, and (I feel this is often overlooked) the time he overcame Voldemort's wand by sheer force of will. This, in my mid, shows that he could be powerful, if only he whole-heartedly applied himself to the seeking of it. Unfortunately the Potter books are mostly about the bad things that ensue when you forget all your ... loves and friendships... and hence Harry remained just another above-average wizard for most of the books.

However, I feel obligated to point out that Harry has rarely (probably never) failed to use power when he had really needed to (for example, his use of the unforgivables in DH). So I refuse to think that his luck had tided him through all his crises. He has power, only he isn't much interested in being powerful (which isn't necessarily a good thing unless you're a character in a book written by J. K. Rowling).

Also, we must consider that the Elder Wand (which is loyal to power only) gave its ultimate allegiance to Harry. That suggests certain things about the magic system in the Potterverse, especially the fact that there are some aspects of power (like love or courage or loyalty) that are not quantifiable and do not necessarily translate into everyday spellcasting. A shooter with a bigger gun won't always cause more damage, and spells are just tools. The braver or more determined wizard may have a better chance of winning a duel.


... Wow, I managed to be completely tl;dr here, not to mention OT. In response to original post:

Mostly agreed, though I doubt many half-bloods would join Voldemort's cause in the third tier. That level is probably filled up by adolescents like Crabbe and Goyle hounding for glory.

 

I disagree with your examples. Harry's ability to use Unforgivables mean nothing. Crabbe and Goyle became quite proficient in the use of the Cruciatus Curse in DH, which leads me to believe that the Unforgivables are more about having the correct mindset rather than pure power. Well, except for the Killing Curse, if we are to take fake!Moody's words in GOF as true. Then again, we have never seen Harry cast one, so that point is moot.

Harry's success in the graveyard has already been explained by yourself. Sheer force of will, rather than power. We all know Harry's willpower can be incredibly strong, as he has demonstrated by throwing off Voldemort's Imperius Curse. But understand that willpower is not the same as plain power in general. The only example you've raised in Harry's defense that I feel is valid would be his Patronus in Third Year, though I could once again argue that such a Charm is more about emotions and mental fortitude than it is about skill and power.

The Elder Wand choosing Harry as a master means nothing. It is NOT loyal to power. Harry became it's master only through a complicated, and lucky series of wand-domination. Had he not forcefully stolen Malfoy's wand in a duel, the latter would still be the Elder Wand's master. Similarly, should someone beat Harry in the future and took the Elder Wand, Harry would cease to be it's master.

So yes, I still believe Harry is nothing more than an above-average wizard, albeit possessing loads of courage and determination.

Similarly, I still have not seen much canon evidence that ANY Death Eater, Bellatrix aside, is competent enough to be classified as "elite fighters". Their greatest weapon is, and have always been, the fear inspired by their infamy, fear which had been engendered by their willingness to torture and kill at will. As we have seen, most people fall victim to them because they do not even try to fight back.

In the First War, even when the Death Eaters outnumbered the Order ten to one, they were unable to stamp them out or cripple them. It took five or seven Death Eaters just to kill Fabian and Gideon Prewett. While we don't know whether these two were powerful or skilled at dueling, it suggests that when people do fight back, the Death Eaters crumble.

The best example of this would no doubt be the Battle of Hogwarts. Here, students who have not even completed their education, formed quite a large part of a side that dueled that Death Eaters into a standstill for a long period of time. If this isn't proof of the Death Eaters incompetence, I sure don't know what is.

 

As said by J. K. Rowling in one of her podcasts :

Also. from DH (my memory is kinda scratchy here, but I believe I got the gist):

So the wand that's loyal only to power goes to Harry. Food for thought, yeah?

First point: yes, Crabbe and Goyle did become quite proficient at the Cruciatus, and I agree that they had the correct mindset for it. Harry, however, does not have that mindset (as explained by Bella in OotP). And yet he threw around Crucios when he wanted to, in his rage. And unlike Crabbe and Goyle, he hadn't had practice at it. Not to mention his almost casual ease at the Imperius. That, to me, speaks of a little skill.

Second point: pure power. I disagree with this term. As already posted by me:

To explain better, I think that emotions are very closely tied to your power. Magic is not a battery, to give off pure energy. Any kind of advanced spell requiring great skill, to me, seems to need the proper emotions behind it. For example: the Patronus, the Cruciatus, and even making a horcrux (which is the greatest piece of magic we've heard of being performed in the books). Skill comes into it only as a way of handling the emotions and the resultant magical emission. In view of Harry's will and powerful emotions, I believe that the only things holding him back are his lack of control over his emotions and his disinterest in mastering said control.

Yes, Harry as he is, isn't that much above an average wizard. In the proper circumstances and driven by the proper motivations, he could be as great (or greater) than the Great wizards we've seen in the books. The potential is definitely there... but then again, the Potter books aren't about power. They never were.

All of this is a personal opinion, however. I know there are many who think otherwise.

 

The death eaters are a terrorist group, their tactics are spelled out in that label. Terrorists = terror.

They don't have to be skilled enough to fight the aurors in a face to face battle, they only have to be good enough to surprise-attack a home in the middle of the night and escape before the aurors arrive.
They avoid straight up fights with law enforcement like the plague.

Since the people they tend to dislike most are those of mixed heritage, that hypothetical home in the night could very well contain only one partially-trained school-age magical child, one parent who knows magic and the rest might just be muggle adults/children. If that magical parent was muggleborn, odds are they only know what was taught in school.

Pro Tip: Hogwarts does not train warriors. DADA is basically a self-defense course, so you don't get drowned in a pond by a grindylow or scared too badly by a boggart. It was only because Barty Crouch was a nutjob that they were taught as much as they were about the Unforgivables. It is only because Harry and his friends took charge that the students learned the Patronus Charm (they may not have even received instruction on basics like stunners and shields). They would have learned, however, how to identify a werewolf, right before it kills your defenseless ass and eats your spleen (because they neglected teaching you any spell that would kill it).

This is the schooling your average witch or wizard receives before they meet a death eater.

The death eaters' chief weapon is fear.

They wear black cloaks and masks. A black cloak in the dead of night shows neither dirt, nor blood and a masked faces reveals neither fear nor pain. Behind such a uniform, they are strong, fearless and anonymous (and we all know anonymous never forgives).
Unless you kill one (and most people don't even try) you'll never know who they are. Their numbers might be large or not, it's hard to tell when they all look the same.

There are a few 'celebrity' death eaters, like Voldemort and Bellatrix, who are infamous for their power, brutality and skill. That reputation extends to the other death eaters because you never know who might be behind that mask. The death eater you try to stand up to... it might be the Dark Lord, it might be Bellatrix...

People like Lucius are almost worse. You suspect he's one but can't do anything about it and if you catch a man on your lawn in a cloak and mask and actually subdue him, only to find out it's Lucius Malfoy, you're fucked. He has the money and connections to make sure none of the charges stick and the resources to make your life both short and miserable, because you inconvenienced him.

Lucius got his shit kicked by a house elf and again by a handful of fifteen year-olds. It's not fighting him you fear, it's retribution... and the reputation of his buddies.

Some death eaters are skilled and, like I said, that reputation trickles down to the others. They aren't necessarily that tough... but they are scary.


The one time the death eaters engaged an opposing group of witches and wizards, head on, they lost.

They took over the ministry by using the public's weakness, by using stealth to place key government officials under mind-control and by using lightning raids against poorly defended targets to ramp up the collective terror level.

The average death eater is not a skillful combatant.

The average death eater is counting on your fear, complacency and unwillingness to inflict pain or break laws to give them the edge.

 

In response to Mors Mortis' point regarding the Elder Wand, I'd like to say that even if the wand is loyal to strength, my point still stands. Should someone beat Harry in a duel, it will switch ownership. It is not loyal to Harry.

I do agree with you that Harry could, with enough motivation, and should JKR had decide to write him a little differently, have been a great wizard, one might might actually live up to his title as "Voldemort's equal". Sadly, he is far from that. Guess the Prophecy wasn't completely correct.

Also, everything I've felt about the Death Eaters, Warlocke has explained and put into words better than I ever could. I fully agree with his post. I do indeed wish that more of the Death Eaters are competent fighters that deserve their infamy, but canon has proven otherwise.

 

Don't like nitpicking Warlocke, but Voldemort=Dark Lord, not Death Eater, and he has not been seen covering his face.
And, as said before me by Lucullus, I also agree with you.
I'd also like to point out the Azkaban Rust, look at what condition Sirius was in when he escaped, now think people, who have/had been there longer, don't have an animagus form, and can't think of their innocence, seeing as they have none... They would undoubtedly be in much worse condition than Sirius was in, also the stress of serving a punishing, cruel master, being on the run from authorities etc.
EDIT: If necro, I am sorry.