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Complete The Denarian Lord by Shezza 88 - M - Dresden Files

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by XxEnvyxX, Jun 29, 2008.

  1. KrzaQ

    KrzaQ Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    I don't really agree with this opinion. I mean, Harry does everything he can to be left alone, and being thought evil is perfect for him. Most of what he says is supposed to drive people away, so they won't bother him.
    For all we know, Harry just speeded up the inevitable. This man was the evil one for me - have we ever heard mentions of Harry raping children? Second defense argument is that this information from demons was crucial for Harry's survival.
    Someone mentioned something about Harry being a mercenary. Same as before, I don't really think all mercenaries are evil (most soldiers in armies are mercenaries, and I certainly don't think they are all evil) and calling Harry evil based solely on his status as mercenary won't work. What's more, we don't know if it was Harry's intention, but for now, he only works with with "good" ones (White Council, KotC, OotP).

    Actually, I think Amanda and Dumbledore are only people who see real Harry. Well, Amanda sees her cute fluffy crush, but besides that, she knows that Harry is not evil, which, given the circumstances, is a miracle.


    Anyway, I just checked definition of word "evil" in thefreedictionary.com (link) and I'm crushed. I really thought "evil" to be an extreme word. But well, if a diet can be evil, I guess we all here are. And so is Harry.
     
  2. blackghost

    blackghost Third Year

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    I agree with most of what is said. He is just not caring about people. Rapers and killers are his sacrifice targets, with his fallen being lost in the end. Perhaps dumbledore will be killed because of it? It all gives that feeling.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2008
  3. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    I'm sorry, but most of what you said is not understandable to me, and, in fact, is unlikely to be proper English at all. I would deeply appreciate it if you were to properly learn how to use grammar, as well as the fundamentals of sentence structure.

    I suppose what I am trying to say is-

    Lol What?
     
  4. Samuel Black

    Samuel Black Chief Warlock

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    I don't really agree with this. It doesn't matter if you just sped up the inevitable, or if the guy was already evil. Harry took away free will from a human being and sacrificed that guy's soul in exchange for some information. I'm not defending the rapist, he deserved it. But that doesn't give Harry the right to make that choice.That man is going to be tortured and locked in agony for eternity because of Harry's choice.

    Good people don't do that.
     
  5. maheshjr2000

    maheshjr2000 Muggle

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    Harry is by no definition good. However I dont think he is evil either. I mean the world isnt just black and white. Ok fine maybe it is but the bigger picture is a shade of gray formed by the individual black and white pixels. So he killed a rapist, I doubt anyone of us are going to lose any sleep over it. His rampant property destruction maybe(including that...factory was it?). I mean those guards DIED. Do we have confirmation that the guards were evil? I agree with the torture he used to extract information from the DE. This is WAR dammit!
     
  6. Samuel Black

    Samuel Black Chief Warlock

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    The point is, though, Harry didn't kill the rapist. If he had, I wouldn't be using this as an example. Harry, in full knowledge of what he was doing, summoned a demon, and then sacrificed the rapists soul to endless torture for some information. If that's not straight up evil, I have no idea what the hell is.
     
  7. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Doing it to people that didn't deserve it?
     
  8. Sorrows

    Sorrows Queen of the Flamingos Moderator

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    Technically, (if you believe in this stuff) then that is where his soul would have gone when he died anyway.
    Short of becoming a priest for the rest of his life there isn't much he could do for balancing the books and getting into heaven.
     
  9. KrzaQ

    KrzaQ Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    We're going back to conversation about capital punishment. Either everybody has the right to decide or noone. Oh, and about eternity in agony. It was because of his own choices, not Harry's. He wouldn't end up in Hell if he was a good person and he knew it. How can it be Harry's fault that he decided to rape these kids anyway?
    By the way, this is what I call evil - doing things worse than death to innocents for no other purpose than having fun (that's why Dumbledore is still not evil after sentencing Harry to Dursleys).

    I doubt I can stress it more. Life isn't a binary equation. Being not-evil doesn't automatically make one good person!

    Guards hired by one of Denarians. I'm sure they would ask him to drop weapons before shooting if they knew who (what?) he was.
     
  10. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Actually, if Harry had sacrificed an innocent soul it still would have been condemned to eternal suffering, because he had basically bartered information for the soul of a person. The only reason the demon accepted the trade was because the rapist prayed for forgiveness after every act, so there was the theoretical possibility that he may not end up in hell.

    Capital punishment is one thing, but (if you believe in God) when you kill a person their fate is in the hands of God. When you sacrifice a person's soul to a demon it condemns them to hell no matter what. That is why it is an evil act, and you can't get much worse than he did.
     
  11. KrzaQ

    KrzaQ Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    No, how I understand this, at the moment this man was condemned, and demon had to kill him before he could escape Hell's grasp, even if chances for that were extremely low. Thus, if he killed an innocent baby (and the baby was baptised) it would go straight to heaven.
     
  12. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    You did that deliberately :p
     
  13. KrzaQ

    KrzaQ Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    I don't think narrator should tell readers whether a story is stupid or not.

    Very nice update, I hope we'll see more soon.
     
  14. Shezza

    Shezza Renegade 4 Life DLP Supporter

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    Taure: Of course :p


    KrazQ- changed, cheers.
     
  15. Atyan

    Atyan Squib

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    Where's the verb?

    Should there be an article before "few"?

    dark good? Is that something like dark but not evil?

    Breeze is singular, isn't it?
    ---
    Did you think of Haku from Naruto while you wrote the speech of Gandalf?
    ---


    Nice update

    Atyan
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2008
  16. XxEnvyxX

    XxEnvyxX Groundskeeper

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    Good chapter so far, I love the end.
    Trapdoor *grin* so first book like, can we see something like Fluffy or the Devil's snare, just more....cooler?
     
  17. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    Latest part was enjoyable as always. The whole monologue thing was especially somewhat amusing nod to the cliche of villains making long speeches. I did feel that there were a couple of plot-holes or nitpicks or whatever that I felt could have been somehow explained or justified better.

    How did Harry get the idea that Verrine betrayed him and that this was a trap? I mean all he saw was Rosanna jumping into a hole. Strictly speaking, for all he knows its just somekind of secret escape route that Verrine did not know about. Not that I am opposed to the idea that Verrine did lead Harry to a trap. In truth, it makes more sense for her to do that than to remain loyal. However I think there should be something more to really solidify Verrine as a traitor to justify Harry's instant belief of it. Either that or Harry should not be so completely certain of her guilt just yet.

    I also found Meciels behaviour slightly strange. I mean if this truly is a trap for Harry then we should expect that Rosanna&co have prepared carefully for him. For all Harry knows he is jumping into a fight with several other denarians+Verrine+wizards+guards+who knows what else. A fight that even Harry should not be capable of surviving. It seems rather stupid of Meciel to be willing to risk Harry's life so casually considering all the effort it has taken her to raise and educate him. I mean she is immortal&eternal so what would it matter to her if Rosanna escapes. She&Harry could hunt her down and take her out on their terms instead of Rosannas. Meciel has quite literally all the time in the world so her decision to risk everything by playing by Rosannas rules seems odd.
     
  18. Shezza

    Shezza Renegade 4 Life DLP Supporter

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    Last scene of the chapter is up.

    Dakatim- will address your points in the edit, making Harry's instant claims of betrayal a little more reasonable and emphasising Meciel's irrationality a little better. A source of conflict in later chapters is exactely that, how far she's willing to risk Harry's life for her long-denied revenge.
     
  19. XxEnvyxX

    XxEnvyxX Groundskeeper

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    This is so much better than a lousy plant, a dog and a few flying keys *laugh*
    THIS is a good way to keep someone out
    I can't wait to see what you come up with next.
     
  20. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    But is she not risking herself too?

    I mean if Harry dies now then the other Denarians will get her coin and most likely do their best to guarantee that she does not get another host for a very long time. It feels a bit sudden that she is suddenly crazy enough to risk both Harry and herself so irrationally when there was no such irrationality with Vesper in the previous story. Why the different reaction?
     
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