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The Marriage Contract Plot Device - How to Make It Not Suck

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Probellum, Oct 26, 2014.

  1. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    I feel shame.
     
  2. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    It doesn't exist but it could:

    Neville/Pansy in 'Gaming the Shrew'; post-Battle of Hogwarts, Shacklebolt's Ministry takes a hard line on anyone who supported the Dark Ministry. For a young, bitter witch with few prospects and fewer friends, the one path out of a vengeful railroading into Azkaban is to play on the sympathies of a gullible hero.

    Surprising to everyone, Neville accepts the challenge of marrying and therefore taking responsibility for 'that bint who wanted to give Harry over to the enemy'.

    Harry pulled Neville aside, incanted Muffliato and then hissed, "What are doing? Has she got an Imperius on you or something?"

    "It's like this- we have to make a Ministry for everyone, that represents everyone, even the cunts, idiots and bullies. If I can tame her- the most catty, bitchiest one of our generation, it'll show the others that they can be included, too. Maybe then we won't be looking at another pureblood insurrection twenty years on."

    "That's... a really long view of things. You really think you can do it?"

    "It's all about time, care, cultivating and pruning. Besides, she's the next best thing to Bellatrix, so her suffering won't make me feel bad."

    "More power to you, mate, but I'll be sending an Auror to check you for tampering every few weeks or so."

    "That'd be great, Harry. Thanks."
     
  3. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Different idea.

    Contrivance here.

    Contrivance there.

    And my loathing for that idea is only superseded by the loathing of that particular work of Shakespeare.


    Realistically.

    Getting rid of 'Harry and X get stuck in a marriage contract with no way out', because that's unworkable.

    Getting rid of 'a marriage contract with no way out', because that's unworkable.

    What's left is a story with whatever plot that then prompts Harry and X to create a marriage contract. Perhaps it assures them an inheritance. Perhaps it provides help or protection. The marriage contract won't be a Big Deal, because they can just cancel it whenever, which is the only way to even entertain the idea in the first place.

    That might work. But only because it's got nothing to do with the original idea.
     
  4. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    When you get right down to it, everything in a story is contrivance if you're beginning with a particular line and headed to a particular ending. So I'm not really seeing a problem with "contrivance" as opposed to "Never in the history of humanity has that happened!"

    Handled bad, it may feel like a plot device, rather than part of the story, I'll admit that. But handled well, I think it could drive a storyline.
     
  5. prtclehysics

    prtclehysics Third Year

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    I can only think of one way to make it even semi-plausible and I'm not sure it would qualify as a marriage law fic in the end. I have a crossover inspired plot bunny with the potter parents. It goes like this, Parents agree to let only son marry muggle born witch as long as witch completes steps X,Y,Z. Steps X,Y,Z involve delving deeper into magical (in this case pagan) inspired parts of magical society. Muggle Born witch is a modern catholic and semi-uncomfortable with this. She has an incentive to complete the marriage contract because she does love her intended and muggle borns are disappearing daily as Voldemort rises.
    That's it. That's the only way this works. One of the intended has to be in mortal peril and the couple has to want to make it work. I can't think of any way it works in Potterverse without an external threat.
     
  6. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    "everything in a story is contrivance" -- I will agree to that. In the context of this discussion, however, it means an unreasonably large amount of hoops you have to jump through to Make Just This One Thing Work. So even assuming one came up with a reasonable explanation of finding oneself stuck in a super-binding contract, it still means being stuck in an optimisation problem -- going to great lengths to explain the reason is going to look ridiculous for the one small fact (see: The Legacy), whereas not going to great lengths to explain means the fact itself will look ridiculous (every other marriage contract story). That's catch-22.

    And I'm sorry, but "everyone gets stuck in a marriage contract" is a silly direction for any plot to take. That'd be the moment I'd put the story down.
     
  7. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    That's why I was thinking that the pressure came not from the contract itself, but an outside force in the midst of societal turmoil. Such things have a better likelihood in those types of situations.

    And yeah, "Everyone gets stuck in a marriage contract" is silly. However, if such a push was only directed at purebloods who were married to half bloods or muggleborns, and only say, under forty years of age, you're cutting it down to a dozen maybe? And even some of those are let slip by, so that the entire law becomes another method for the new Minister of Magic to keep purebloods on the reservation, sorta-speak.

    Again, I think it's possible. I wouldn't want to see the typical FFNET writer try it, but I bet anywhere from a half-dozen to a dozen or more here could do something with that type of story that would capture and keep interest without resorting to the issues I listed in my first post here.
     
  8. Thaumologist

    Thaumologist Fifth Year ~ Prestige ~

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    I like the magical world to be more than just muggles with magic wands. So add in history to it...



    Before the Wanded Wizard Era, the Celts and the Druids ruled Britain. Magic was cast through large gatherings in rituals, or powered through bloody sacrifice. Spells would take longer to cast, being a culmination of several hours (or days) worth of effort, but would have significantly larger effects than Wand Spells. Bigger spells called for more people, or for more intricate rituals.

    So rather than having one man with a revolver, instead you have fifty people who work together on a missile launcher. Or 100, but an ICBM.

    But rituals are complicated. If a single step is wrong, the spell fizzles out and does nothing, in the best of cases.

    In the worst, it explodes, killing everyone involved.

    Normally, it's somewhere between the two.

    As bigger rituals have bigger effects, sometimes, you'd need more than just Mum, Dad, and the little ones. Especially when blessing the harvest, or warding away the Weres in the woods. Those COULDN'T be done incorrectly.

    To prevent clans from 'accidentally' blowing each other up during rituals, contracts would be drawn up, and enforced through shared blood, given freely and honestly. The contracts would lay out specific terms on how the parties would have to behave, how long they'd have to do it for, and what the punishment meted out would be (incidentally, this could be used as an origin for the Goblet of Fire - it's the binding tool of the Fudge family line, or something.). All parties could then work together knowing that any cock-ups would be mistakes, and not deliberate.

    And maybe, the contracts would be more than "for the duration of the Solstice", or "until we've both done the crop dance". Maybe two families would decide it would be a lot easier (or a lot more profitable) to both work together for the forseeable future.

    So Father Jones and Father Smith sit down, and bash out the contract. Anne Jones will marry Albert Smith, Beth Smith will marry Bernard Jones; and all the signatories will be bound to not cause direct harm to all others. All family members on both sides sign it, and now they can do much bigger rituals, or borrow the other family's potion brewer to help with the fiddly bits.

    Jump to the modern day, and they're still used.

    The Ollivander wand shop has remained the only decent one because anyone marrying into the family signs the (now ancient) long contract that basically states they can't give away wandlore to anyone not listed on the contract; rather than any pact of non-aggression.

    If you want to use it in a HP fic, then maybe not all Voldemort's followers gave up when he died. They're still entrenched in the ministry, they still have all the power, why in Merlin's name would they give that up now, and to a murdering school boy, none the less?

    To stop the killing, Neville and Pansy (or whoever, it doesn't matter), sign one of the old style non-aggression contracts.



    Or, if you want to go for crack...

    Remember what I wrote about the GoF being the Fudge's binder?

    Cornelius adds a stipulation to the TWT - the winner marries his grand/child.
     
  9. World

    World Oberstgruppenführer DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    One thing that annoys me is the unbreakable part of it. It all boils down to "Why do I have to marry/have sex with her?" - "Because magic."

    While GoF has given us accidental magical contracts, why not just make it a real contract with real people behind it, who have a vested interest in making the marriage happen and the ability to create consequences for Harry if he doesn't comply. Possibly impacting other people as well, thus creating a choice for Harry to either comply with the contract or not. Not because of magic, but because of consequences.

    If it's combined with a contract that wasn't drawn up because "they could" (i.e. alcohol or fun) but because "they had to" (i.e. circumstances force it), even better.
     
  10. World

    World Oberstgruppenführer DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    One thing that annoys me is the unbreakable part of it. It all boils down to "Why do I have to marry/have sex with her?" - "Because magic."

    While GoF has given us accidental magical contracts, why not just make it a real contract with real people behind it, who have a vested interest in making the marriage happen and the ability to create consequences for Harry if he doesn't comply. Possibly impacting other people as well, thus creating a choice for Harry to either comply with the contract or not. Not because of magic, but because of consequences.

    If it's combined with a contract that wasn't drawn up because "they could" (i.e. alcohol or fun) but because "they had to" (i.e. circumstances force it), even better.
     
  11. golan

    golan Temporarily Banhammered DLP Supporter

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    ...until their sons thinks, the contract is a pile of shit (why should he let some dumbass contract force his wife-to-be to jump through some arbitrary hoops??) and dissolves it. The End.
     
  12. Vulcan

    Vulcan Groundskeeper

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    I think the loss of money as a penalty for breaking up the contract is more realistic than the loss of magic. Add to it James Potter mishandling his inheritance 'to help the war effort' (that's the usual explanation in the stories where Harry doesn't have ton of vaults full of money), and BWL discovering that he can't afford to break up the contract.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
  13. esran

    esran Professor

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    Do you mean loss of magic?
     
  14. Vulcan

    Vulcan Groundskeeper

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    esran, thanks I've corrected the mistake.
    Let's face it, the loss of money as a penalty is more realistic than the proverbial pound of flesh, even in the Wizardling World.
     
  15. anvyl

    anvyl Third Year

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    personally, i don't mind marriage contract fics in general, as arranged marriages are still quite common, even today.

    what i mind about them is the 'magically binding' part, it is just opens up so many worldbuilding problems.

    Some part of my head canon says magic cannot control the mind of another absolutly (at least magical people) (as we see with the imprio in canon it becomes a battle of wills) and magic can also not take away the freedom of another person without further circumstance (this just rubs me the wrong way).

    I've always explained away the TW contract this way: the contract is not between the champions, it is between the schools. As the Headmasters presumably signed, it is magically binding and all, however if Harry were to quit (what is the opposite of enroll in english?) Hogwarts, he would no longer be part of the contract, without penalty.

    So as to how to explain the magical properties of marriage contracts you could take a similar route, it is made not between Harry and bride, but rather between the families. Harry gets to chose if he wants to marry her, but if he doesn't the only way out of the contract is to forsake his Familyname and everything that comes with it, his money included. (familiy magic? seat on Wizengamot?)

    Now of course one would have to think up a reason as to why the bride would willingly participate, and why the contract was made in the first place.
     
  16. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 ~ Prestige ~

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    There's a number of problems with your theory, the biggest one being that Harry wasn't competing under Hogwarts. So he could disenroll from the fake school upon which he was entered, and all's okay.

    Moreover, how is a school that doesn't even exist, magically bound in a contractual agreement?

    Then, there's the text. "Once a champion has been selected by the Goblet of Fire, he or she is obliged to see the tournament through to the end. The placing of your name in the goblet constitutes a binding, magical contract. There can be no change of heart once you have become a champion." GOF chapter 16.

    First, note that what constitutes (read creates) the contract is the name going into the Goblet of Fire. It is not, therefore, between the schools. the contract is between the person placing their name in the Goblet, and the magic of the Goblet itself.

    Second, the text leaves no way out of this decision. Despite today's ignorance concerning what it means to "give your word" or to be "contracted" for something, such actions, once given, can't be taken back.

    There is therefore nothing wrong with magically binding contracts that disallow a person finding a way out. The whole problem, is the setup and the exposition of the topic.

    EDIT: From GOF and Harry's competing out of a fourth school:
    While this is only conjecture at this point, it is conjecture from the person that actually did it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
  17. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros. Moderator

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    If it bothers you so much, you can hand wave it away as the GoF being a unique magical artifact. I recall there was a fic that did this, by claiming GoF was a device from long ago used to enslave people.
     
  18. anvyl

    anvyl Third Year

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    Maybe i should have been clearer on my apprach to canon in general. Some people love canon and see everything in it as word of god and unchangable. I am not one of those; i love the premise of canon, especially in the first three books, but the latter ones left me disappointed, so i turn to fanfic to correct what i felt should have been.

    So, in some instances like with the goblet, i straight up change canon in my head.

    The problem with binding magical contracts, as it is in canon, is that some dark wizard can create a slave-contract-goblet, stand in Diagon alley, tell people that they are taking part in a raffle for a Firebolt, do it for 2 month, et voila, he has a major part of the wizarding world enslaved. Its just ridiculous.
     
  19. Eilyfe

    Eilyfe Supreme Mugwump

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    The problem with seeing canon as anything else than canon, is that it isn't canon anymore.
     
  20. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Which is to say: there's no point to a debate on a topic that does not have a standard of correctness, because all opinions are equally valid (or invalid).
     
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