Did you see Vira's Scott ISO and Scott's responses from d1?

That didn't look w/w to me.

 

Yeah though I admit I was skimming, I didn't really care for either side of it. I def came out of what I could read of D1 with a scum lean on Scott.

I just forget who owned subbed in for. I don't think Scott ever posted while I was ingame so I have a tough time connecting "guy people talked about from all of D1" to "sub partway through D2 who I have seen do things" even though some of owner's questions in her catchup were blah.
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Is my memory off or did like 5+ people vote (and unvote) Vira at SoD3? Like Vaimes doesn't think she got that much pressure and Fable thinks it's Regfan bullying the lynch on her but I swear Stan/Miner/.113/Regfan and someone else have all voted her. I voted her CFD yesterday, so did tom and Koalas and Koalas was willing to vote it well before he self-pressed to SR.

And Fable has been the only guy defending her but he hasn't really made A Case for why she's town yet to sway people.

I'll go check but I do feel like there was a fair amount of pressure to her before her freak-out.

 

I'm working on it.

 

I'm more sure this time. Also not just reading yeti, but SS as well.

And I'm not townreading owner/scott. I think I asked why everyone was townreading scott earlier in the game. But I haven't really played with either.

 

I'm kind of tired and need a break from this game, I'll be around tonight but probably not doing much unless you directly address me.

 

Ok people suspecting/voting Vira:

Regfan enters the game with a bigpost pushing scum!Vira and voting her, has continually said "I want to see votes on Vira where are they."
Jari says he'd be ok with lynching Vira before fonti though he votes fonti to start but SRs both.
Miner is 50/50 on Vira and says her play he doesn't think matches her meta as either alignment but progresses to suspecting her more as he talks with Regfan (imo), to the point he votes her. Unvotes her after she freaks.
fonti also kinda starts neutral on Vira but grows more agreeable to scum!Vira as Regfan pushes it. She tells Fable that Vira is (could be?) one of the scum in response to his wagons analysis, then calls her frozen and votes her. Unvotes her shortly after.
.113 has been on about scum!Vira since her readslist on D2 if not before.
Me because I ISO'd her, didn't see what was so townie, didn't see her pushing jack diddly on D2, and felt she was coasting off D1 metareads.
tom and
Koalas (and myself) who were willing to CFD her yesterday.
Stanari voted her today, then asks for dya's & Tsaiah's thoughts on her.
Tsaiah says Vira feels shady and she needs to look into Vira.
Cuth says "regardless of alignment Regfan's post pushing her emotional reaction as scummy is bad" which isn't an outright defense of Vira but it's probably the closest thing to not-SRing her besides Fable. He nulls reading her, doesn't know what to think except she lacks some bs French.
Newcomb says a fonti/Vira team seems pretty possible... then on the same page says he's not sure it's possible anymore after the latest posts but also still puts Vira in his scumpool.

dya is someone I can't find an opinion on Vira for in this time period.

Otherwise, all of:
Regfan
Jari
Miner
fonti
.113
Stanari
Yeti
Tsaiah
Newcomb
(tom
Koalas)

Have either voted Vira or expressed doubt she's town to some degree.

Cuth is nulling her and Fable HARD townreads her.

So if Vira is scum she's being bussed IMO. Unless you want to tell me her teammates are whoever tf isn't on this list which I don't think is even possible.

Top candidate for bussing is fonti or Miner, both of whom started with this "well hm" and then amended themselves to Regfan's scumread on her and voted her, then backed off once Vira posted and haven't gone back iirc.

Unlikely w/w is .113, I don't think that he would stay on her case about her bad readslist and hypocrisy as long as he did, and Tsaiah because I don't think Vira calls her teammate out for something .113 has called her out on.

Would Regfan enter the game bussing his partner? I want opinions on what town!Vira means for the Regfan/Zack slot. I already was downtrending Zack as D2 went on but I feel like Regfan has some strong posts and pushes... but if Vira is town and we have all-dead villagers after D3 is he just gunning for a mislynch by someone he thinks had a weak D2?
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Missing Vira reads:

dya
wei
Vaimes
owner
is anyone else even itg

I think Vaimes has a slight scumlean on her maybe?

 

Dya's actually been wolf reading vira all game. It was mostly d1 and then I told her no and she hasn't brought it up much since.
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Random thought I had while going through Vira's ISO, if we've been doing so poorly so far maybe we're bad and we're doing this to ourselves and wolves are mostly among the quieter people?

Thinking along the lines of Owner/Jari/Cuth/Newcomb.
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@Vira

Please come back and talk me.

Help me help you.

Just ignore Reg cuz I agree getting him to change his mind is impossible but that doesn't matter as long as we can convince everyone else. Just start by posting a reads list please.
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I'm reading through Vira's ISO and it's all coming across as really genuine to me. I don't see her doubting wolf reads on koalas and then voting him anyway as a wolf, I think she buries him instead there. Felt like she just voted him because there was a chance and he was probably never going to resolve himself by posting which was similar to how I felt.

 

I'm a bit wasted. Blame Gh, he got me werewolf wine.

Reg, I think thinking Yeti is town off of her being nad about being called w/w is insane? As a wolf, she knows that Kalas is town and the accusation is false, so it's easy to get mad about it. Do so bemefits her by allowing her to spund genuine and linking herself to Kalas more strongly via repetition. By repeating her opposition to the read, she makes more people think about it and argue for it.

I don't find her coming out agressive to be towny either, as it's a strategy I've used many, many times as scum.

I don't even care this much about this read, because I'm npt sure at all on yeti and I want to lynch vira and fable and .113, but placing yeti as top town off of that and only putting owner as slight town actually offends me. And it makes me tinfoil you and yeti as mafia.

Except I'm really sure Vira is mafia at this point, so even if reg is bussing, this is a weird time to do it and it's rude and counterproductive to go after him, unless he leads some mislynches, except that might mean we lose. And I'm not sure on fable, because he could be a shit head rn as town, and dya's defending him, except dya's defense is divorced from reality and I dont feel like she's responding to me at all. She could be misinterpreting things because she likes fable and has me locked in as mafia, so me pointing out the mafia things fable is doing ironically force her more strongly into the townread, except dya is supposed to be really good. Or she's scum and she knows he's town so she feels bad, but Fable's stuff is so weird and I don't understand why he went straight to self vote and skipped over the reiterate read step. Also, calling reg's thing bullying is so off, it's just a case that he believes.

And I know I'm missing some mafia, and I'm wondering who I could be wrong on, but I know new town, and I know that's what scott was, and I can't back down from that. And I'm sure on miner. And I'm worried about von, but past ne was he's probably right, so fuck it. My conclusion on Jari is that hes probably tiwn from the sheer balls of him refusing to cabe to me and give reads for no reason, why botger as scum unless the point is posturing, but it's such a weird thing to posture on.

And .113 was pushing vira yesterday, yeh, but not very strongly, and it reminds me of how he interacted with his partners in the wh game, and I don't even remember enough detail from that to know why. His push on Vira today felt so strongly like he was trying to find a reason different from reg's case for some idea of individual credit and it's this huge bussing flag because my reaction was like "yeah, this case makes sense, I wonder what vira will do, I'll help if needed." There was no need to stetch, the case was all there. It could be town thing where he just latched onto an obscure detail that mattered to him, but his push and reaction to me questioning it doesn't make sense with it.

And yeti saying miner and I sound w/w with vira when I know I'm town and I just feel miner's town and then calling .113 the least likely bussee feels like she's trying to protect him from Viras scum flip and shore up his towncred and get mislynches om town instead, which brings me back to wondering if reg's mafia for clearing yeti for those bad reasons, except that he gave some good reasons for her being with vira and if he's fully in bussing/saving mode with a teammate going then that one pile or the other that doesn't make sense and also reg's allowed to be wrong.
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I'm a bit wasted. Blame Gh, he got me werewolf wine.

Reg, I think thinking Yeti is town off of her being nad about being called w/w is insane? As a wolf, she knows that Kalas is town and the accusation is false, so it's easy to get mad about it. Do so bemefits her by allowing her to spund genuine and linking herself to Kalas more strongly via repetition. By repeating her opposition to the read, she makes more people think about it and argue for it.

I don't find her coming out agressive to be towny either, as it's a strategy I've used many, many times as scum.

I don't even care this much about this read, because I'm npt sure at all on yeti and I want to lynch vira and fable and .113, but placing yeti as top town off of that and only putting owner as slight town actually offends me. And it makes me tinfoil you and yeti as mafia.

Except I'm really sure Vira is mafia at this point, so even if reg is bussing, this is a weird time to do it and it's rude and counterproductive to go after him, unless he leads some mislynches, except that might mean we lose. And I'm not sure on fable, because he could be a shit head rn as town, and dya's defending him, except dya's defense is divorced from reality and I dont feel like she's responding to me at all. She could be misinterpreting things because she likes fable and has me locked in as mafia, so me pointing out the mafia things fable is doing ironically force her more strongly into the townread, except dya is supposed to be really good. Or she's scum and she knows he's town so she feels bad, but Fable's stuff is so weird and I don't understand why he went straight to self vote and skipped over the reiterate read step. Also, calling reg's thing bullying is so off, it's just a case that he believes.

And I know I'm missing some mafia, and I'm wondering who I could be wrong on, but I know new town, and I know that's what scott was, and I can't back down from that. And I'm sure on miner. And I'm worried about von, but past ne was he's probably right, so fuck it. My conclusion on Jari is that hes probably tiwn from the sheer balls of him refusing to cabe to me and give reads for no reason, why botger as scum unless the point is posturing, but it's such a weird thing to posture on.

And .113 was pushing vira yesterday, yeh, but not very strongly, and it reminds me of how he interacted with his partners in the wh game, and I don't even remember enough detail from that to know why. His push on Vira today felt so strongly like he was trying to find a reason different from reg's case for some idea of individual credit and it's this huge bussing flag because my reaction was like "yeah, this case makes sense, I wonder what vira will do, I'll help if needed." There was no need to stetch, the case was all there. It could be town thing where he just latched onto an obscure detail that mattered to him, but his push and reaction to me questioning it doesn't make sense with it.

And yeti saying miner and I sound w/w with vira when I know I'm town and I just feel miner's town and then calling .113 the least likely bussee feels like she's trying to protect him from Viras scum flip and shore up his towncred and get mislynches om town instead, which brings me back to wondering if reg's mafia for clearing yeti for those bad reasons, except that he gave some good reasons for her being with vira and if he's fully in bussing/saving mode with a teammate going then that one pile or the other then that doesn't make sense and also reg's allowed to be wrong and I feel bad for pushing for one bad read.

And if vira comes back and is blindingly town after all pf this, I'm going to be happy and really pisses at the same time, and I'm worried someone is going to call me scum with her for saying that, but I can't see outside scum!Vira worlds right now.

I'm really sorry that I'm not sorry about all of this. This wine is tasty.

 

Yeah I'm so terrible for defending my V read and being tired of the bullshit of everyone ignoring me and shading me for trying to change.

Fuck off.

Why did I ever bother when I should have known nobody was ever going meet me halfway.

 

Get off your high horse.

I dont give a shit, fable. I'm trying so hard not to be a dick, and see worlds where you're town, and ask you questions, and you just go from fine to refusing to talk to me at the first sign of everything. The shithead comment is about you refusing to help me or anyone solve and going straight to whining and self voting. Try fucking posting your reasons so there's something to listen to before you start believing no one listening.

I'm sorry, I know this is mean, but fuck man, I can't trust that your emotional shit is real because you've tried to manipulate me with it before, so I just want to try to talk to you. I'm really, really, trying man. Please meet me half way.

 

Who is this to?

And fonti .113 went onto Vira yesterday and kept pushing the "your readslist is bad and you calling out Tsaiah for the same is bad" so I think it's less likely he's bussing. He's independently shady though.

 

I'll have to look at it. My initial impression is that he liked to do mild busses in wh and is probably do that here.

 

I don't see it as minor due to how it went on all D2 but I guess he hasn't done as much to push Vira today. So it's possible he was bussing Vira D2, but I find how you and Miner came in neutral, agreed with Regfan but pulled off voting Vira very quickly more likely to be bussing partners but only if Vira is actually the consolidated-to wagon.

dLGN did this where he was the first vote on Nacho then pulled off and returned to vote him later.

 

I pull off voting vira was done to avoid overwhelming her in case she is town. It's not a reflection of my read, and think that's obvious, which makes your read really, really weird.

 

I think this is perfectly consistent with the kind of player Yeti is.

I am very interested in your read on Tsaiah.

I kind of agree with the general notion that we need to kill through the quieter players, though some of the ones you named I think are reasonably town.

Can you be more specific/give examples?

Wow that was one hell of a post.

Can you talk to me about Vira more? Also, like, at this point I'm going to assume you don't want to talk about a days old Cuth read but...I kind of want you to. (No is an acceptable answer but I will be a little sad.)

 

No but the conclusion seemed to be either Vira flips town and im scum or Vira flips scum and im busing
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Tbh i cant really understand Fables reaction as town here. Im trying to but...

I mean, Fable, Seriously WHY THE FUCK should we all blindly listen to you saying Vira is town?

One could argue the same was done about vaimes but tbh hes acted less scummy then Vira and im sure if he had acted really scummy everyone would have him as scum despite 3 people saying hes town.

Also on Vira its just you, not you and two others. Plus you havent really given any good reasons, im sure its Kinda hard but if it is then you should Also realize how hard it is for The rest of us to accept it. I mean if you, who say you can read her, cant even point to why shes town, how on earth could we?

How can you take that so personally that you're about to quit. Like town hasnt been wrong before or didnt listen to you before or ev ven that you havent been wrong before.

I mean Seriously... The only thing i can imagine being Kinda town about this at this point is that i don't think many wolves would put their neck out like this.

On The other hand its good when Vira flips scum because you can go "like id defend a teammate that hard"....

IF you're town here Fable, you should feel bad for acting like this, because you should know better.

But ill be scumreading you from now on.

 

I don't want to mislynch so if Fable is right that Vira is town and I'm wrong to suspect her for/of coasting (still dislike that she isn't pushing anything no matter what alignment, she's just kinda been here) I really want him to make a case to convince me and not just rehash that he thinks it but not why. I get he's frustrated with his inability to get wolf reads but like I need reasons to sheep someone else's read if it dissents from my own.

dya is prob expecting me to tinfoil "or Fable is Vira's partner trying to save her" but I don't want to tilt him into not making a case if they're both town... or heck even if he's a wolf going for the Accuracy Read onto town!Vira. Whatever prevents a mislynch.
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If Vira is scum then there are certainly partner(s) bussing her though. With dya suspecting Vira as well that's legit like 5 people maximum who could TR her... don't remember what Jan and SR's reads on her were (think Jan may have been TRing her?) but she's either mislynch bait due to not doing enough or scum caught by town and bussed.

Is there even any pushback to her lynch today? Like where do people who don't STRONGLY SR Vira (or don't at all) want to go instead? Fable where would you go today? Same for Cuth? I don't want to artificially make a counterwagon or anything but I think it is interesting that there isn't one yet imo if Vira is scum?

 

Most likely any remaining scum are happy just going for the towncred instead of sticking their neck out and risking "defending a scumpartner" accusations.

Had Vira still been around I'm sure someone would, but with inactive Vira, why risk it?

Could also possibly be a DOB? Either way, I agree she has wolves on her (or had votes by them). I don't know who is voting, I need a votecount.

 

Only got a sec.

I think the whole "Everyones scum reading Vira so is her partners just bussing her or is she just town" type thing is fairly meh in that it ignores what's actually happening? I think a lot of people are saying they scum read her and agree with the reasoning but very few people are actually helping me lynch her or throwing down a vote on her here. I can very much see this as scum for the most part being willing to distance with Vira but not assist in her lynch taking place and I think Vira now vanishing for over 30 hours since I dropped my scum read on her just fits scum waiting to see how we all react so much whereas it's just not something town does.

I think a vote count will show the only people actually voting Vira right now is myself, 113 and Vaimes with Fonti being the only person not voting her taking a hard stance that she'll be voting there today. I think (?) there were only ~3 votes on Vira around EOD yesterday too with two of those being Tom/Koalas and outside of that I don't think she's really received votes throughout the game with most people ~townish reading her with only a few not having that stance and those players really pulled back from actually pushing her for a lynch, I think the overall way she's been treated this game makes a lot of sense with her being mafia.
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Fable continuing with the "Regfans just bullying" type route is just ???? in that it's a pretty fucking stupid way to view anything that's happened, I've just replaced into a game where we're 7-0 down already and I've got a strong scum read on a player I think is just rather obvious mafia, trying to get them lynched is kind of the aim of the game here and I've not seen anything Vira or from anyone else that points even remotely towards me being wrong here.
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I kind of understand where Fontis coming from re; "Yeti as mafia would find talking about herself and how she's not with Koalas as an easy thing to do and get town read from it" but it's just not how I read her posting and I find her posting to involve more solving attempts than many others in the game, she's not in my lock town section with the other 3 any more but I most certainly do think she's town here. Didn't really like much of Fontis big drunken post reads/thoughts other than that at all.
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Don't really like anything of Dyas in the last page or so, will need to remember to reread it when I get the chance later, some of it kind of feels like she's trying to pocket Fable here which points against the Fable/Dya world I was contemplating.

 

My point isn't that Vira is being hard bussed but that her teammates are ready and willing to bus and have prepped their scum leans on her to justify wagoning her as they wait to see if Fable actually makes a case to defend her (I'm doubting Fable/Vira is w/w) that justifies them pussyfooting around her and backing off to another wagon... probably .113 if I had to guess (and he and Vira aren't w/w like I've suggested).

I'm trying not to read anything into Vira's outburst because I think if she really doesn't have that much time to play, she would be really upset as town or mafia that Regfan subs in and instantly drops this massive scumread on her and a bunch of people (maybe even her own teammates) go "okay sure." And she was the CFD attempt D2. Did she kill off tom to get rid of that pressure? I forget how Zack was reading her but if Regfan hadn't subbed in I really doubt the slot would have presented this big case so I'm sure if she's scum that was totally unexpected.

Buuuut at this point is she frozen? Or busy over the weekend? People who cbf to come defend themselves.. are they more likely to be town and apathetic? Or scum gambling that people will back off her without content from her to dissect? It's a dirty tactic if she's scum. Grumble.
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I'm getting really annoyed at Jari at this point that he continually seems to refuse to explain his reads.

He wants me to vote fonti and Vira and I want to independently but why tf should I sheep him? Why should I trust his TRs are also town?

I swear the dude is impossible to tell he's town unless you're a cop and even then he's impossible to defend.

So maybe he isn't town? Has there really been much suspicion of him? I don't think so. In WH Fable was SRing him all game and pushing him a fair bit but I don't see Fable touching him much this game. Fable where do you stand? Where does anyone stand on Jari? Why does Jari stand on anyone?