Hey, I'm a founding member of that.
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I think you explained this to me already but it didn't get through my thick skull; can you make me see your townread on Jari?

 

I'm not sure why @dyachei is actually scumreading me, tbh. I looked through her iso and found these (in reverse order):

(Sorry for the lack of a link, for some reason the quote wasn't showing up in the preview function and I had to mess with it.)

So basically, the stated reasons dya has for scumreading me are that she thought Zack was town and didn't like my case (ok), she thought tonally I sounded like WH (I think I sound absolutely nothing like that game at this point, and Fable and Stanari disagreed with that read at the time), and she thinks my walls aren't really trying to solve the game (this seems insane to me). I imagine my push on Fable is another reason, but like, considering I tried to talk to her about it for several posts and she just stopped responding to them, I also don't see how that fits with her thinking I'm not trying to solve.

Yeah, dya, I don't get it, and I would like you to actually explain your read.

 

I was gonna say uhhhhhh you might wanna reread that buddy.

I think Vira is scum, I think you are pushing the lynch hard already, I wanted Fable to make the case for town!Vira if Fable was actually accurate. I also think fonti is scum.

I also brought up the question of if Vira was town or bussed and iirc you and someone else both told me that she hadn't received enough votes/pressure to be "bussed" which I disagreed with, so I went and proved it, that if Vira is scum her teammates are prepped and primed to bus her as almost everyone has either voted her or scum read her. That is to say, getting a scum!Vira flip isn't clearing of anyone who pushed her wagon on the premise of "you voted/pushed Vira" to me. Individual interactions would be the only thing relevant there.

I actually find it interesting that as fonti amps up D3 trying to (counter)push this me/Vira w/w thing she hasn't claimed me voting Vira's CFD on D2 was me "knowing it wouldn't go anywhere/risk her" but doing it anyway "for the towncred later." It wasn't and I was hoping it would go somewhere, but I'm still mildly surprised nobody pushing the me/Vira w/w narrative has tried for this angle. Maybe they know it's wrong and bad and didn't bother xoxo

 

I think Jari is an asshole and thinking about him makes me not want to play the game. I won't advocate his lynch, but I'm sick of defending him. I also think Vira would totally push a partner here, and he's reminding me of that one time Citrus was disguised his scumminess via rudeness.

Uh, probably dya. I really feel like I have no grasp on her play whatsoever. I don't see any progression in her reads and I don't think her pushes make sense with them, but according to Fable iirc this is town from her and she also gets angry every time it's pointed out and I really don't want to fight that battle. Maybe .113 or Cuth. I think Cuth is a pretty good player, and I'm used to getting a very strong tonal read on him as town, which I haven't, but I also last got that read as scum if iirc, so there may have been some tmi involved. I think he's genuinely frustrated about people not listening to his Newcomb case, but I also think the case itself was pretty safe judging from the thread consensus at the end of the previous day. And I also have trouble reading .113, which goes with the overall pattern, but I think he may tmi slipped that Vira is definitely going to flip scum earlier while also saying that he'd be voting someone else before Vira now (that may have been a typo). I don't think .113's thing about the nk's was scummy for him. This is a whole lot of blah, I'm aware.

 

@Stanari - I'll give it one more attempt, I get the feeling that he really strongly believes in his Vira/Fontisian scum reads and given that's kind of where I'm at that's a really good sign particularly since he had those reads before I'd even replaced in from the looks of things. I think his attitude of "Need people that can actually push Fontisian to get lynched to do so while they're alive" is...not something he'd be doing as scum? He'd be less worried about "The people agreeing with me are going to die" if he controls the night kills. I also like that he's prioritising attempting to 'solve the game for the future' over defending himself here, like if Jari!Scums getting a wagon that's starting to be created on him I think going 'I'm going to try and work out who in the PoE is town since we don't have ML's to deal with that many people later on and hopefully pull some people out of the PoE" is a really unlikely avenue for scum to take. There's on a few stances of his that I'm not in agreement with (ie. Dya/Newcomb/Fable etc) but even there the only one where I'd say we're very far apart on is Dya and I can see how he's getting to most of those reads and find them pretty understandable.

 

Fair enough. Would you mind rehashing your feelings about Jari, with this latest example in mind of how you feel it aligns with his overall play?

Vote:Vira

 

He's not in my town block or anything he's just not someone I think is scummy that I would lynch him today over Vira or fonti, ever.

The dude was impossible for me to push as town in WH even with a freakin priest check on him. I wouldn't have thought he was town there without it because he's so stubborn about making his cases and always tosses some new-age hippy quotes out when people try and interact with him. "How do I TR you" "a happy accident" boi this ain't your sister's pregnancy give me substance.

But, I see that same kind of intentionally obtuse "here are my very firm TRs no you cannot know why" from that game here. And his case on Cuth that I finally got him to post seemed good to me though this would be a new reason to TR him.

I'm not saying I'm certain Jari is town, but I feel good Enough that I don't want to lynch him today at all.

 

You really should be aware at this point that there are sections of the game I just haven't and probably won't read. If there's something interesting that you think I haven't read, it's probably because I haven't and I appreciate it being pointed out.

Also, Yeti, you're an experience player. You know when you go "oh hey, look how everyone has wanted to lynch this person" some townies are probably going to be like "oh, wow, so many people pushing there means scum are pushing there, which means they have to be town!" I'm not saying you advocated it outright, because you didn't, but you definitely planted the thought, and if I were to go about trying to defend Vira as her partner without actually being linked to defending her, that's how I would have done it.
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Also, I feel like if Yeti is scum, she keeps saying the "Jari was impossible to defend in WH" thing because he's her partner.

 

Actually kind of surprised you would attribute all this strategic cunning to me. Should I be flattered you're town and think that's what I'm doing here (though entirely wrong) or are you scum bsing it? In which case, eat my shorts you'll be lynched soon enough.

I'm not setting anything up - you and Miner both voted Vira and then instantly unvoted when she posted then proceeded to freak out. To me, that says one or both of you could be establishing bus credibility early in the game but still biding your time to see if another wagon would take off.
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I literally slipped one time that I would never lynch him and he STILL got Fable tunneled on him and misvigged.

I should've just claimed my checks cause I knew your slot was DOB and nobody was listening to me but WHATEVS.

 

Look, I am town. I think that with people who don't know me, voting a partner and then unvoting immediately looks bad. It can look good, sometimes, if the people I'm trying to convince as scum think I wouldn't do it because it looks bad, but since the majority here doesn't know me that well, that's not something I would aim for as scum in this game. I did it, as town, knowing it might look bad because I like Vira on a personal level, want her to be in an ok place, and wanted to do something to help her get there after I deliberately provoked her.

I think Miner, as an individual, had the same reaction, and while it could have been an "I don't want to vote my partner thing" I think it's much more likely a "shit, she's really upset, I need to do something" thing, because, as mafia, he doesn't to unvote in the thread when he can just try to help her by talking to her in the scum qt instead.

 

Yeah but in the same post I say "look how everyone wants to lynch X" if I'm actually trying to defend Vira would I conclude the two options are she's town, town is suspecting her and scum hopping on or she's scum and being bussed? Like I can see your point if I didn't make it obvious throughout the post I believed she was being bussed, and looked into the case BECAUSE I thought she was being bussed at this point.

We did this in G5 where we looked at the consensus SRs and everyone had Dels and Barry in their PoE. Dels was actually scum and Barry was just idletown who struggled to jive with our turkeys. So I think it has merit, in seeing how consensusy a scumread is on a player. Dels was bussed there so if everyone is in unity on a scum you're aware they've been bussed.
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So if you unvoted to try and help Vira get back into the thread and not tilt, and think the same for Miner, can you really scumread me for not voting her after the freak-out with Fable clanging his bell in the town!Vira corner to give her the space to prove she's town, if she is town? I'm not sure how much a part of your SR on me that is versus what Regfan didn't like about my SoD but if that logic goes for you and Miner...

 

Hmm, yeah, I can see the frustration from that game leaving a big impression. I just kind of think it's weird that you used the same wording three or four times now, instead of talking about what parts of his play you actually think might be towny? I don't know, it's a weak read based on a gut feeling and an expectation I have of you wanting to figure out how players tick (even though it's really hard to get that with Jari) which may be false.

Also, I attribute strategic cunning to you because you seem intelligent and it's what I use every time I roll scum and care about the game (I didn't in WH.) And that's part of why I'm not scum here. I don't really expect that argument to sway anyone except Newcomb and maybe Reg or Von, but w/e.

 

Also hey guys don't forget to take a look at Owner plopping a vote and peacing on out.

Even though I addressed dya's reason for SRing me as dya misreading what my post was doing, Owner hasn't showed up to correct it. And I think it was a flimsy reason to vote me in the first place as Owner did a fair bit of a twist in her read on me to get there. I can't expect Owner to know I'll reply without needing pressure votes (lololol) but I also feel like she has read Enough of me that her vote and subsequent departure from the thread were bad.

 

Ok, the history helps with understanding it.

I'm not scumreading you for not voting Vira, to be clear, and I agree it was obvious that you were looking for bussers. To be honest, a lot of the scumread comes from how much I disliked SS early on, and there's really nothing to be done about that, sorry.

Tbh, this is moving me to a point where I'm like "Ok, after lynching Vira, I should go where?" because townreads are easy and scumreads are hard. So. Thanks? Poe issues, bleh.

 

?? I dunno what you mean.

 

Do you want me to go and grab the post I analyzed Scott with or will you look at it in my iso. Because I'm convinced Scott was newb town, and owner's always really weird in games, so I don't care much about points against her unless my points in Scott's favor can be refuted. Also, when choosing whether to read impossible hard to read!owner or nearly completely new!Scott, I'm going to go with reading Scott every time.
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Yeti, to be clear, I want to know if you do see something specific about Jari's play you think is towny, as well.

 

Trying to just power thru the walls at this point so I still have time to freaking iso, but I have to repsond to this:

[return snark]

Rephrasing. Could you post some words about said running comparison? (On the other four too would be spiffy)

 

I think this might be right.

I understand dya's frustration that she was ignored on D1, I feel like I saw her do it in one of the champs games too, so I did try to interact with her.

But it feels like when she reads my posts, she's not really replying to My Post, but what she thinks was going on in my post. I usually think intentionally misrepresenting posts is scummy but she does it so consistently that her reply is like, 2 degrees off from what I've actually said, that I think somewhere she's just reading past me and then talking past me.
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Depends, is it easy to find in your ISO?

I'll give you the crappy answer of "I think it was the same uselessly obstinate but consistent play" as last game as a holdover to when I finish reading this page and can look at him in detail to tell you.

Like I know my read on him is kinda crappy and poorly justified and maybe wrong and needs me to ISO him and either rejustify it or change it.

Think his post on Cuth was good.

 

With Fable defending Vira, I understand and agree with the point that he prefers bussing over other scum interactions, but I think he sort of got locked in to townreading Vira by the way Reg's thing progressed. Like, I think as town he would have immediately jumped in to fight the read /or/ would have stepped back because he wasn't sure on Vira and wanted her to prove herself to be town with her response. Instead he backed off but still strongly believed Vira was town, and that doesn't seem like something town!Fable would do. With scum!Fable, I can see him backing off there and going to panic with Vira a little bit in scumchat while trying to push her to post, until he gets called out in the thread on his lack of response, and then just instinctively goes into calling Vira town and saying no one's listening to him (even there was nothing to listen /to/ before that point. I think this is explained awkwardly, so please ping me if you want to try to hash it out.
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I'll get it, give me a minute.

I think his post on Cuth was clearly coming from the idea that "Cuth is scum, and I'm going to prove it with this iso!" which, frankly, he'd do as both alignments.
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Here, yeti.

Also, now that I did this, I remember Fable voting Owner like 7 hours after this, asking why anyone was townreading her, and not commenting on my case at all, which means to me, he didn't read it. Then his actually was a super lack luster "I disagree" and that was it.

 

I think your tone is the same kind of aggression as last game. I think half of your reads make absolutely no sense (like thinking yeti and I could ever be w/w). I haven't seen anything from you I think is towny. Therefore, I'm scumreading you.